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Kings cross LU - Pentonville Road entrance

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Cdd89

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I was hoping to have a look at the former Thameslink concourse which forms the Kings Cross LU Pentonville Road exit. I had a look today but it was closed (at 18:00), contrary to the latest info I found online of 07:00-20:00 weekdays.

Does anyone know its opening hours - or indeed if it has finally been closed? I couldn’t see anything recent on a forum search.

Thanks!
 
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Mojo

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Haven’t seen it open since last March.
 

Backroom_boy

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This entrance does seem a bit of unfinished business; the only bit of railway that hasn't been redeveloped in the area. It seems to have been forgotten about.
 

swt_passenger

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It was originally intended to close with the former Thameslink station. IIRC there were vocal objections, but whether it’s really needed (other than as an escape route), I’m really not so sure.
 

Wolfie

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If l was to speculate l would imagine that if Crossrail 2 and Euston/St Pancras station ever happened there could be major reworking of that entrance.
 

Bald Rick

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If l was to speculate l would imagine that if Crossrail 2 and Euston/St Pancras station ever happened there could be major reworking of that entrance.

Crossrail 2 doesn’t go anywhere near that part of Kings Cross.
 

Wolfie

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Crossrail 2 doesn’t go anywhere near that part of Kings Cross.
I know that it doesn't directly but it is likely to completely change station flows. I suspect they would try to model that but wouldn't be sure exactly how until it happened. With the reorientation of the station I would expect either rework or closure of that entrance.
 

Bald Rick

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I know that it doesn't directly but it is likely to completely change station flows. I suspect they would try to model that but wouldn't be sure exactly how until it happened. With the reorientation of the station I would expect either rework or closure of that entrance.

Crossrail 2 barely changes the flows in Kings Cross at all, for the simple reason that it doesn’t go there! There is no connection between Crossrail 2 and the LUL part of Kings Cross St Pancras.
 

Wolfie

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Crossrail 2 barely changes the flows in Kings Cross at all, for the simple reason that it doesn’t go there! There is no connection between Crossrail 2 and the LUL part of Kings Cross St Pancras.
I'm sure that l read somewhere that there'd be, in the style of Moorgate and Liverpool St on Crossrail 1, effectively a merged super-station.

Good, l'm not going gaga...

 

swt_passenger

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If you go to the source of “londonist’s” info on the Crossrail site, it reads:
“The new Crossrail 2 station would link Euston and King’s Cross St. Pancras underground stations and could include:
• 2x250 metre long platfoPlramygsro. uSntdation platform tunnels around 20 metres below ground level to the top of the tunnel
• A new station entrance and ticket hall onto Grafton Place near Euston station
• A new station entrance and ticket hall into St. Pancras
• A dedicated entrance and link to Thameslink platforms at King’s Cross St. Pancras”

…it reads as if everything will be well to the west side of St Pancras, and including Kings Cross in the name of the Thameslink platforms doesn’t really help with accuracy. I think the existing rail tunnels, the British Library basement, and various sewers rule out a direct underground link to the various LU stations in the Kings Cross complex. But never say never.
 

rebmcr

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All Wolfie was saying was "maybe there would be further development in the general area, and maybe it would include this entrance". Nobody can reasonably claim to rule that out.
 

Bald Rick

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I'm sure that l read somewhere that there'd be, in the style of Moorgate and Liverpool St on Crossrail 1, effectively a merged super-station.

Good, l'm not going gaga...


You’ll have to trust me here, that article is wrong. Crossrail 2 has no link proposed into any part of KXSP LUL station, and no proposal to change the Pentonville Rd entrance. That’s not to say the latter wouldn’t be changed by another project. But it wouldn’t be Crossrail 2.
 

simple simon

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Its a shame if its closed ... what happened to the distinctive and iconic mural that dates from when Thameslink opened? It would be very bad if this was lost / destroyed.


6182a.jpg
 

Hadders

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The mural was still in-situ and visible from the pavement when I walked past last week.
 

Alfie1014

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Its a shame if its closed ... what happened to the distinctive and iconic mural that dates from when Thameslink opened? It would be very bad if this was lost / destroyed.
Didn’t the mural pre-date Thameslink, wasn’t it Midland Electrics?
 

gaillark

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Didn’t the mural pre-date Thameslink, wasn’t it Midland Electrics?
It was Midland Electrics indeed predating Network SouthEast refurbishment work. The station had this when it was known as it formal name: King's Cross Midland City Line then changing to King's Cross Thameslink when Thameslink opened.
 
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So the entrance has only been kept open because the local residents complained when they tried to close it. That's pretty much the only reason why it's been kept open. I haven't worked there in a few years but I would assume it's currently closed due to staffing levels and covid
 

simple simon

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So the entrance has only been kept open because the local residents complained when they tried to close it. That's pretty much the only reason why it's been kept open. I haven't worked there in a few years but I would assume it's currently closed due to staffing levels and covid

That is plenty enough reason to have the station entrance stay open. Especially people going to the Victoria line benefit, although it is also a better walking route (than the street) to the rest of the Underground station too. (In inclement weather and / or on days of poor air quality caused by traffic derived air pollution).

Thameslink ... alas. The new station is so far away as to justify having retained the old station (renamed as Pentonville Road) although I do not know whether the platforms could have been extended long enough for FLU 12 car trains. Once the new station at St Pancras had opened overcrowding would have ceased. Passengers interchanging with the Underground's Victoria line would also have benefitted from the old platforms staying open.
 

swt_passenger

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That is plenty enough reason to have the station entrance stay open. Especially people going to the Victoria line benefit, although it is also a better walking route (than the street) to the rest of the Underground station too. (In inclement weather and / or on days of poor air quality caused by traffic derived air pollution).

Thameslink ... alas. The new station is so far away as to justify having retained the old station (renamed as Pentonville Road) although I do not know whether the platforms could have been extended long enough for FLU 12 car trains. Once the new station at St Pancras had opened overcrowding would have ceased. Passengers interchanging with the Underground's Victoria line would also have benefitted from the old platforms staying open.
The platforms couldn’t be extended, or widened to a safe width over their full length, which are the main reasons it was closed.
 

Wolfie

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The platforms couldn’t be extended, or widened to a safe width over their full length, which are the main reasons it was closed.
Absolutely. As for keeping it open even if it was possible who in their right mind would want another station literally a minute away from St Pancras?
 

Bald Rick

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Thameslink ... alas. The new station is so far away as to justify having retained the old station (renamed as Pentonville Road) although I do not know whether the platforms could have been extended long enough for FLU 12 car trains. Once the new station at St Pancras had opened overcrowding would have ceased. Passengers interchanging with the Underground's Victoria line would also have benefitted from the old platforms staying open.

The platforms were substandard, bordering unsafe, in just about every way. On a tight curve, bad stepping distance, not easily extendable in any direction, narrow stairways, very difficult to provide step free access, the list goes on.

And whilst it may have benefitted passengers changing to the Victoria line to keep a station there, it would have disbenefitted a far larger proportion of people (about 10 times as many) who would have had 2 minutes put into their journey.
 

Hadders

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When passing through the old Kings Cross Thameslink station I'm always amazed that it was actually a station given how narrow the platforms are. Totally unsuitable. Imagine the delays if a 12-car class 700 called there with only the doors in the front 8 carriages able to be used.
 

ChiefPlanner

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The narrow platfroms were bad enough - but especially on the northbound. (where passenger waits were longer) - just about OK for Bedpan , not at all for Thameslink. Awful station in every respect.

The area outside then was dire - (yes it has improved massively since then) - high crime , blatant drug dealing and so on. A station best consigned to the history books. Worth keeping as an emergency access point and no more.
 

AlbertBeale

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I understand why it wasn't possible to expand the platforms to cope with the new Thameslink trains. But it remained (remains, potentially) incredibly useful for Underground access.

If you're going to or from that part of the Kings Cross area (which is my case), it's far and away the easiest / quickest / least congested route to the Vic Line; and before the reshuffling of interchange tunnels at KX Underground, it was for the Picc too. Pre-pandemic, it had quite a bit of use, in the rush hours especially.

My understanding was that it wasn't only kept open because locals wanted it (which is itself a good reason!), but also because it provided an emergency exit from much of the Underground complex in a situation where one of the main exit areas was blocked. And if it had to be kept operational anyway, then why not let people use it routinely?

The problem, in terms of its emergency use especially, was that the "up" escalator from the corridors up to street level was out of action for over a year (pre-pandemic), with repeated promises as to when the repair would be completed not being kept. I was told that the escalator infrastructure was NR's not TfL's, hence the lack of urgency - though I'm not clear whether that's true. (I believe the Pentonville Road station overall was NR's responsibility when Thameslink stopped there.)
 

Wolfie

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I understand why it wasn't possible to expand the platforms to cope with the new Thameslink trains. But it remained (remains, potentially) incredibly useful for Underground access.

If you're going to or from that part of the Kings Cross area (which is my case), it's far and away the easiest / quickest / least congested route to the Vic Line; and before the reshuffling of interchange tunnels at KX Underground, it was for the Picc too. Pre-pandemic, it had quite a bit of use, in the rush hours especially.

My understanding was that it wasn't only kept open because locals wanted it (which is itself a good reason!), but also because it provided an emergency exit from much of the Underground complex in a situation where one of the main exit areas was blocked. And if it had to be kept operational anyway, then why not let people use it routinely?

The problem, in terms of its emergency use especially, was that the "up" escalator from the corridors up to street level was out of action for over a year (pre-pandemic), with repeated promises as to when the repair would be completed not being kept. I was told that the escalator infrastructure was NR's not TfL's, hence the lack of urgency - though I'm not clear whether that's true. (I believe the Pentonville Road station overall was NR's responsibility when Thameslink stopped there.)
Re your last para escalators reportedly caused all ends of problems when LU took over the Waterloo and City line. Supposedly none of them met LU's standards.
If the escalator does indeed belong to NR and they (or more accurately associated TOCs) don't serve the station any more then l seriously doubt that repairs will be any sort of priority.
 

Timmyd

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Re your last para escalators reportedly caused all ends of problems when LU took over the Waterloo and City line. Supposedly none of them met LU's standards.
If the escalator does indeed belong to NR and they (or more accurately associated TOCs) don't serve the station any more then l seriously doubt that repairs will be any sort of priority.
I can’t think of any escalators which serve the Drain?
 
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