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Lack of Exit stamps to cause problems?

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221129

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From this article.


Spanish officials denied entry into Spain to a UK national who had visited the country this summer but whose passport had not been stamped when she left, according to The Local, an English-language website covering Spain.

The woman had hoped to visit her son but was stopped when she tried to cross into Spain from Gibraltar.
Border guards suspected she had overstayed the allowed 90 days in any 180-day period because she had been stamped into the country during her previous visit in June, but not when she left.

Instead of being able to go to visit her son, she remained in Gibraltar for two days before flying back to the United Kingdom, The Local reported.

British UK residents must have their passports stamped on entering and leaving Spain in accordance with rules for travel into the Schengen Area after Brexit.

This concerns me as I'm due to be travelling to Spain again in the near future, however on my last visit (Sept 21) I also didn't receive an exit stamp. Is this going to be an issue going forward and how can people rectify it after the fact? I know I'll be requesting a stamp everytime now but it could be too late?
 
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AlterEgo

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I certainly will be moving forward. Not sure how to sort my missing one though.
I’m not sure if that can be rectified, although the presence of another entry stamp should, if the dates aren’t too far apart, show you did leave in the interim period.
 

route101

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Is this stamping of UK passports going to stop next year?

Are they always stamping UK passports?
 

Mike395

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UK stamps all non EU nationals entering, always has, not sure if its started stamping EU ones yet, but it should be doing.
No it doesn't. Any person entering the UK using the e-gates (including the EU and several non-EU countries) won't get a passport stamp.
 

221129

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Well we shall see what happens in the next few weeks. Out to Germany tomorrow. Then back out to Spain on Saturday.
 

Ianno87

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Yet another Brexit windfall. They just don't stop coming do they?
 

221129

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if your going back in, inside 90 days of the last 180 days chances are it wont matter… as its a rolling date.
Is the issue with the specific country or the Schengen area?

So to see if anyone can help me put my mind at ease. My movements this year have been;

07/06/21 Enter Porto Stamp
13/06/21 Exit Lisbon Stamp
09/09/21 Enter Madrid Stamp (In a random page towards the back of my passport)
13/09/21 I exited Madrid with no Stamp
01/10/21 Enter Reykjavik Stamp
04/10/21 Exit Reykjavik Stamp
 

221129

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Its worth pointing i’m not an immigration lawyer, so take it as a pub conversation from a seasoned traveller.
Thank you, I really appreciate this! If we ever end up on the same flight then the first round is on me!
 

XAM2175

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and if they dont use the e-gate ? (Families, kids etc).
If your nationality and entry reason make you eligible to use the e-gates then you won't receive a UK entry stamp even if you enter via a staffed desk instead. This has been in effect since 01 June 2019.

Persons entering on certain short-term work or study visas still require entry stamps and will be directed to a staffed desk.
 

najaB

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If your nationality and entry reason make you eligible to use the e-gates then you won't receive a UK entry stamp even if you enter via a staffed desk instead. This has been in effect since 01 June 2019.
Which just confirms that the statement
UK stamps all non EU nationals entering, always has, not sure if its started stamping EU ones yet, but it should be doing.
is not true.
 

Cloud Strife

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So to see if anyone can help me put my mind at ease. My movements this year have been;

As long as you haven't exceeded 90 days in any 180 period and there's documented proof (doesn't have to be stamps, flight tickets can do the same job) of you entering and leaving legally, you're fine. It doesn't matter if you enter and exit from different countries, as Schengen is treated as 'one'.
 

Starmill

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Have the border guards who have inspected your documents thus far read for the dates on the the entry-exit stamps? Or perhaps stopped to ask a couple of brief questions where you're going and what the purpose of your visit is? Or has it only so far been only the more cursory check that the passport is yours?
 

AlterEgo

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Have the border guards who have inspected your documents thus far read for the dates on the the entry-exit stamps? Or perhaps stopped to ask a couple of brief questions where you're going and what the purpose of your visit is? Or has it only so far been only the more cursory check that the passport is yours?
I was asked “why did you enter the Netherlands?” upon exiting the Netherlands. I’d been there for 24 hours because I had an overnight air connection.
 

Cloud Strife

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I strongly suspect* almost all records are captured on Databases these days and have done so for decades with several data subsets are shared between nations in cooperation agreements.

its when anomolies occurs that prompts further questions.

The days of a two part arrival/departure card in your passport are fasing into history. *(with exceptions of course ).

But your passport is your proof, when they are judging you against what the computer says, if you stack up and computer says yes..off you go, *which is most people.

But specifically with European travel, there is no doubting the queuing can be considerably longer than it is for EU arrivals.

I recall back to early 90’s Poland, arriving by train at 2am, a border guard, looking not too unlike Dick Strawbridge, put on his spectacles, produced an A3 sized, 2inch thick hardback hand written book of names of wanted persons in Poland and proceeded to check my name against it, taking some 10 minutes, before passing my passport to a 20 something female in uniform to stamp it.

* caveats just for the pedants.
So, how it works:

Right now, each country keeps their own records of entries and exits. They aren't usually shared, so when you cross the Schengen border, they have to rely on what they can see. They can see if there's an 'alert' about you (i.e. information on the Schengen database, which includes details of criminal records and so on), but they usually don't know when you've actually crossed the border in the past if it was in another country. For instance, Poland keeps systematic entry/exit details, but this isn't shared with Slovenia.

The problem is that stamps are only of an informational character and (unlike the UK), do not have any legal power. So, if you can prove to the satisfaction of the border police that you haven't overstayed, then it's fine, regardless of what's in the passport or not. Flight tickets are generally accepted proof, but you can produce anything to help - for instance, a Google Maps timeline.

This *will* change in the next few months. It's supposed to be launched in February, but it's likely that it'll be in the second half of 2022. All entries and exits will be logged and stored, combined with details of residence permits and so on. The end result is that the computer will automatically tell the border police information such as - how many days they have left, whether they've overstayed now (or in the past), whether they have a residence permit or not, etc etc.

The only issue? It requires everyone to be systematically checked. Pre-Covid, it was quite normal in CDG and FRA to only have a visual check of the passport due to the amount of people travelling.

But going back to the stamps issue - they, by themselves, do not prove anything. My passport currently thinks I'm in Croatia...
 

Roast Veg

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The only issue? It requires everyone to be systematically checked. Pre-Covid, it was quite normal in CDG and FRA to only have a visual check of the passport due to the amount of people travelling.
10 years ago I passed through French control at Dover when all the barriers were up.
 

Cloud Strife

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10 years ago I passed through French control at Dover when all the barriers were up.

It was really nothing unusual at all. I entered into the EU at Ceuta in 2019 after a random trip to the first Moroccan town for a kebab, and there was only a quick visual check of the passport, both on entry to Ceuta and on exit from Ceuta to Algeciras. There were no exit controls whatsoever from mainland Spain to Ceuta, nor from Ceuta into Morocco.

This is why I have my grave doubts about the Entry-Exit System, because it just doesn't seem as if the external Schengen border can really support checking each and every passenger.
 
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