Latest on Rail Operating Centres

[Backroom_boy]

Trying to look up the latest on the ROCs; while five years ago NR was definately going to go down to 12 centres that would signal and control the whole network, the plan now is much vaguer (at least publicly)

Would I be correct to infer that the signalling/ROC strategy has been devolved to the routes to develop so we might get a more varied approach?

 

[Stuart-h]

Theres a roc at York. I don't know what lines it controls though.

 

[TheEdge]

The ROC at Romford has GA, NR and ARL control on the same floor, and was meant to be getting Crossrail in there on their own floor as well, not sure if they've actually moved in yet. Signalling remains dug in at Colchester, Liverpool Street, Cambridge and various other smaller locations though.

The ROC scheme seems to be grinding to a halt.

 

[DarloRich]

The ones I can remember of the top of my head:

Rugby
Basingstoke
Cowlairs
Derby ?
Manchester
Romford
York
Three Bridges
Didcot?
Romford

 

[Romsey]

About three or four years ago there was talk within NWR of pre ROC signalling centres sometimes based in existing signalling centres. Instantly dubbed "pebbles", the idea seems to have sunk without trace.....

Part of the halt in resignalling projects is that all the quick wins of plugging existing interlockings into a ROC have been done. Some of those like Three Bridges taking over Victoria (C.) and London Bridge has led to some interlockings being replaced and a lot of wiring and signals being brought up to current standards which has taken a long time. Then there are the awkward bits like Littlehampton, Bognor and Yeovil Pen Mill which require brand new interlockings before there is any idea of tacking them on to existing control centres.

 

[High Dyke]

Seemingly the future consideration of ROC's suffered somewhat when Andrew Haines took over at Network Rail. He made his opinion on them known. One comment mentioned was 'How can you explain to someone at Kings Cross their train home to Stevenage has been affected due to adverse weather at York'. There are some minor schemes still to progress, such as Swinderby closing and being re-controlled to Lincoln Signalling Control Centre (LSCC). The target date mentioned recently is November 2021 - though that is already a number of years later than first thought. Ironically when the great plan, suggested by Network Rail, was first mentioned, Swinderby was never even on it - as though top management didn't know it existed.

 

[Horizon22]

The Kent one is dead. You've got Ashford / Gillingham IECCs but control was never co-located. Instead they remain in central London. Ashford would have been a good location considering the space near the station.

 

[Bungle965]

The ones I can remember of the top of my head:

Rugby
Basingstoke
Cowlairs
Derby ?
Manchester
Romford
York
Three Bridges
Didcot?
Romford

Derby is where EMR and presumably East Midlands NR are located.
Rugby is soon to gain Avanti, when they move from Birmingham.
It took me a while to get my head around the fact that there is (or is soon to be) a GTR desk at York ROC.

 

[Horizon22]

It took me a while to get my head around the fact that there is (or is soon to be) a GTR desk at York ROC.

There are certainly some interesting oddities like that where a fringe operator exists on a route. I've alrrady seen jobs advertised for GTR roles in York, which I imagine is a rather lonely experience (organisationally speaking).

Rugby was meant to be the posterchild but no operators wan't to move their at first but I think have slowly been dragged over there. LNWR were certainly moving people in.

 

[High Dyke]

There are certainly some interesting oddities like that where a fringe operator exists on a route. I've alrrady seen jobs advertised for GTR roles in York, which I imagine is a rather lonely experience (organisationally speaking).

Rugby was meant to be the posterchild but no operators wan't to move their at first but I think have slowly been dragged over there. LNWR were certainly moving people in.

Equally, does that mean the 'Saltley bomb shelter', (West Midlands Signalling Control Centre) as it's known, is a bit of a white elephant?

Regarding GTR at York. Is that to do with the migration of Kings Cross PSB there? Other minor changes are expected to see Lincolnshire (not ECML) fully report to Derby control - at the moment it's a bit half-hearted, and lacking in clarity regarding incident response and areas of cover.

 

[LOM]

The Regions are doing their own signalling strategies now. As mentioned above the Haines regime, devolution and Putting Passenger First has led to a change of attitudes. One thing that has already come out of COVID is a corporate realisation that centralisation of critical operating staff on a small number of locations is not necessarily always a good thing. I have even heard that one of the Route Controls is planned to move *out* of a ROC.

Another factor is that expected savings on headcount are often not appearing in reality as you still need lots of staff and the posts you do need tend to be higher graded than those you got rid of, so opex savings tend to be marginal at best. That is before the eye-watering capex cost of big recontrol schemes.

 

[43055]

The ones I can remember of the top of my head:

Rugby
Basingstoke
Cowlairs
Derby ?
Manchester
Romford
York
Three Bridges
Didcot?
Romford

Derby is where EMR and presumably East Midlands NR are located.
Rugby is soon to gain Avanti, when they move from Birmingham.
It took me a while to get my head around the fact that there is (or is soon to be) a GTR desk at York ROC.

Yes Derby has the East Midlands Control Centre. Covers most of the East Midlands and the MML down to Sharnbrook signalling wise.

 

[The Planner]

Equally, does that mean the 'Saltley bomb shelter', (West Midlands Signalling Control Centre) as it's known, is a bit of a white elephant?

Regarding GTR at York. Is that to do with the migration of Kings Cross PSB there? Other minor changes are expected to see Lincolnshire (not ECML) fully report to Derby control - at the moment it's a bit half-hearted, and lacking in clarity regarding incident response and areas of cover.

How is that a white elephant considering the area it covers, it still has room for the cross city North and Worcester to go into it. If anything it is Rugby that is the white elephant as there are no concrete plans for the SCC to move next door and it still only has Stafford in it.

 

[LowLevel]

Seemingly the future consideration of ROC's suffered somewhat when Andrew Haines took over at Network Rail. He made his opinion on them known. One comment mentioned was 'How can you explain to someone at Kings Cross their train home to Stevenage has been affected due to adverse weather at York'. There are some minor schemes still to progress, such as Swinderby closing and being re-controlled to Lincoln Signalling Control Centre (LSCC). The target date mentioned recently is November 2021 - though that is already a number of years later than first thought. Ironically when the great plan, suggested by Network Rail, was first mentioned, Swinderby was never even on it - as though top management didn't know it existed.

You would hope of course if they're going to do Swinderby that they would go the whole hog and renew the tired and unreliable kit controlled by Doncaster PSB between Collingham and Newark, I believe this year will be it's 53rd birthday from when the boxes were closed and their crossings converted to AHB in 1967.

 

[Dstock7080]

The ROC at Romford has GA, NR and ARL control on the same floor, and was meant to be getting Crossrail in there on their own floor as well, not sure if they've actually moved in yet.

CrossRail/Elizabeth Line was certainly in Romford ROC in March last year.

 

[Elecman]

Equally, does that mean the 'Saltley bomb shelter', (West Midlands Signalling Control Centre) as it's known, is a bit of a white elephant?

Regarding GTR at York. Is that to do with the migration of Kings Cross PSB there? Other minor changes are expected to see Lincolnshire (not ECML) fully report to Derby control - at the moment it's a bit half-hearted, and lacking in clarity regarding incident response and areas of cover.

WMSCC will be staying as it will eventually control all the lines in the West Mids Transport area

 

[Expression357]

There are certainly some interesting oddities like that where a fringe operator exists on a route. I've alrrady seen jobs advertised for GTR roles in York, which I imagine is a rather lonely experience (organisationally speaking).

Rugby was meant to be the posterchild but no operators wan't to move their at first but I think have slowly been dragged over there. LNWR were certainly moving people in.

GTR already have a member of staff located at York ROC- and have done since around March 2018 - operating as a fringe to the Great Northern Train Service Manager and Thameslink East Train Service Manager who are based in the GTR Control Centre at Three Bridges ROC (Sussex Route Control).

The GTR York member of staff engage with NR LNE route in York and also link with the LNER Control who are co-located at York - so that GTR Control at Three Bridges can quickly find out that something is happening further north and address it, perhaps south of the Thames.
GTR York also deals with a lot of the running of the Northern City Line.

 

[Horizon22]

GTR already have a member of staff located at York ROC- and have done since around March 2018 - operating as a fringe to the Great Northern Train Service Manager and Thameslink East Train Service Manager who are based in the GTR Control Centre at Three Bridges ROC (Sussex Route Control).

The GTR York member of staff engage with NR LNE route in York and also link with the LNER Control who are co-located at York - so that GTR Control at Three Bridges can quickly find out that something is happening further north and address it, perhaps south of the Thames.
GTR York also deals with a lot of the running of the Northern City Line.

Yep gathered they were doing the Northern City line and the LNE route, but as I said its an oddity when the rest of the staff are based in Sussex! Not that in principle there's massive harm in the 21st century doing something this way but you do lose some experiential knowledge when not physically co-located with colleagues,

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There isn’t, but in my opinion there should be a dedicated TPE controller at York too

 

[Horizon22]

There isn’t, but in my opinion there should be a dedicated TPE controller at York too

There's lot of these fringes and it appears that certain routes/ROCs are doing things rather differently - which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. I'm aware Basingstoke has a GWR presence but it's limited.

 

[DarloRich]

There isn’t, but in my opinion there should be a dedicated TPE controller at York too

Agreed - all TOC/FOC and NR people should be co loacted - collaborative working and all that!

At the very least a "liaison" officer should be present to act as link to the relevant company control and ensure information is shared.

 

[MB162435]

Would Freight Companies have a presence in all ROC's or just the ones near their depots?

 

[Tom Quinne]

Wales ROC or SWCC as its more commonly known.
You can just about go from London Paddington to Swansea under two signaling centres, if you overlook the black hole between Pontyclun and Baglan where Port Talbot panel still control.

 

[High Dyke]

You would hope of course if they're going to do Swinderby that they would go the whole hog and renew the tired and unreliable kit controlled by Doncaster PSB between Collingham and Newark, I believe this year will be it's 53rd birthday from when the boxes were closed and their crossings converted to AHB in 1967.

 

[pompeyfan]

I'm aware Basingstoke has a GWR presence but it's limited.

To be fair though, there is a lot of route that GWR run over that is Wessex metals. Basingstoke to Reading West, Warminster to Portsmouth/Emsworth and Yeovil PM - Weymouth. SWR only run a limited service on Western rails in comparison, Warminster to Bristol/Yeovil PM and Honiton to Exeter.

 

[LAX54]

Think most ROC plans are now dead in the Water, maybe a few still going on, they are now looking at sub-rocs, which is just a PSB with more in it

 

[pompeyfan]

I believe the new Portsmouth direct panel from Havant fringe to Guildford fringe will be the first desk in Wessex ROC, so some are still going ahead.

 

[LOM]

As I said upthread the Regions are all doing their own thing when it comes to future operating strategy now.

 

[Surreytraveller]

GTR already have a member of staff located at York ROC- and have done since around March 2018 - operating as a fringe to the Great Northern Train Service Manager and Thameslink East Train Service Manager who are based in the GTR Control Centre at Three Bridges ROC (Sussex Route Control).

The GTR York member of staff engage with NR LNE route in York and also link with the LNER Control who are co-located at York - so that GTR Control at Three Bridges can quickly find out that something is happening further north and address it, perhaps south of the Thames.
GTR York also deals with a lot of the running of the Northern City Line.

GTR also have staff based at Derby. ARL have staff based at Three Bridges too

 

[Pieman]

I worked on the construction of York ROC and the plan was for it to control the following:

• whole of the East coast main line from KC to Berwick
• Yorkshire region
• NE region including the tyne valley line as far as Carlisle
• South Humberside

It was expected that it would take several years to transfer all these lines York but the building was handed over in late 2013.