Letter of notice to prosecute

[rhombus1]

Hi all,

I recently boarded a train from station x to station y. I bought a ticket for my journey and attached a discount rail card to that ticket. Unfortunately I did not realize that my railcard had expired (it was one month out of date - with COVID I obviously havent been travelling that much!). Obviously a ticket inspector found me on the train and only when he asked me to show him the railcard I realized it was out of date. I offer to renew the railcard in front of him or to pay for a full priced ticket. He rejected these offers so I offered to take my penalty fare on the chin. I was a bit surprised but he declined this offer also saying "thats not how this works". He took my details which I gave honestly although I note after the fact he did get my date of birth wrong (out by 4 days) and he mispelled one letter of my name (although the subsequent letter got this correct).

At the time I told the inspector that I would really rather deal with this in person and/or online as my mailbox has previously had mail stolen from it and I really didnt want any unnecessary escalation of the situation. I filled out an appeal online stating that I do not dispute the fine but that I am requesting a way to pay over the phone/online due to the dubious security of my mailbox. I didnt hear back from this 'appeal' and it is still in progress. Yesterday I received a letter stating that they intend to prosecute me in the magistrates court and to give my side of the story by sending them a letter back.

I have sent back the letter stating the facts above. My question is what should I expect next?

As further background on myself I have previously been given a penalty fare (although this would have been ~15ish years ago and if my memory serves I would have been under 18 and maybe under 16 at that time).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

Although the letter will have been headed something like 'Notice of intention to prosecute' the railway probably haven't decided yet on whether to do that. Most likely they will read the response that you have sent, and they may then offer you the chance to settle out of court, typically for the fare that you didn't pay plus their administration costs (which could be a couple of hundred pounds - it might be more but hopefully will be less). If that sort of offer is made, our general advice would be to accept it and pay up.

Or the railway might move towards prosecution. Even if they do that, ask nicely if you can settle out of court. And if they continue to move to prosecution, keep asking - even face to face with the prosecutor on the day before the case goes into court. It does work sometimes so it's always worth trying!

 

[rhombus1]

Thanks I appreciate the advice. While obviously I find the situation more than a little annoying I'm not especially concerned by the penalty/fees that need to be paid, I'm happy to pay them and move on so fingers crossed they make that offer.

What I find very surprising is that they only take correspondence via letter. I'd be very happy to settle the matter over the phone or online (I'd pay a premium for that service!) as I just want to put it behind me asap!!

 

[island]

Many railway prosecutions departments do not enter into phone discussions as it usually just results in arguments or he said she said debates which are not a good use of their time.

 

[skyhigh]

I filled out an appeal online stating that I do not dispute the fine but that I am requesting a way to pay over the phone/online due to the dubious security of my mailbox.

How exactly did you appeal and what were you appealing against? Were you issued a penalty fare there and then?

 

[MotCO]

Have you renewed your Railcard to avoid any future unfortunate incidents?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm a little confused about the exact time line. From what I can work out:

- You were caught without a valid railcard
- You offered to purchase a new ticket but this was declined
- Were you given a Penalty Fare or did you offer to pay a Penalty Fare?
- If you were given a Penalty Fare did you decline to pay it?
- Your details were taken
- You appealed against something online (was this the Penalty Fare or was this just an email to the train company about what had happened?)

You've now receive a letter from the train company saying that they are considering prosecuting and asking for your version of events. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this, and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court, however harsh this may seem.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the circumstances but tends to be around a hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

 

[rhombus1]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm a little confused about the exact time line. From what I can work out:

- You were caught without a valid railcard
- You offered to purchase a new ticket but this was declined
- Were you given a Penalty Fare or did you offer to pay a Penalty Fare?
- If you were given a Penalty Fare did you decline to pay it?
- Your details were taken
- You appealed against something online (was this the Penalty Fare or was this just an email to the train company about what had happened?)

You've now receive a letter from the train company saying that they are considering prosecuting and asking for your version of events. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this, and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court, however harsh this may seem.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the circumstances but tends to be around a hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

to clarify the timeline:
- You were caught without a valid railcard - yes
- You offered to purchase a new ticket but this was declined - yes
- Were you given a Penalty Fare or did you offer to pay a Penalty Fare? - I offered to pay a penalty fare, this was rejected
- If you were given a Penalty Fare did you decline to pay it? - was not an option
- Your details were taken - yes
- You appealed against something online - I filled out an online appeal form, although at the time there was nothing to appeal. The only reason I did this was that there was no other way to contact them and I was concerned I would not receive the letter as my mailbox is not secure. (in the end I got the letter fine, although I am still worried about future letters)

I did renew my railcard the same day so I'm good on that front for another year. On this point, someone told me that everyone gets 1 free pass a year for letting their railcard expire - I'm not sure if that is true?

 

[Darandio]

On this point, someone told me that everyone gets 1 free pass a year for letting their railcard expire - I'm not sure if that is true?

Forgetting it once and given the chance to produce a railcard that was valid at the time of travel within a couple of weeks, that's a thing. For an expired one it isn't.

 

[CrispyUK]

On this point, someone told me that everyone gets 1 free pass a year for letting their railcard expire - I'm not sure if that is true?

It sounds like they are getting confused with the provision in the National Rail Conditions of Travel where it is possible to claim a refund once in a 12 month period for the cost of an additional ticket or penalty fare incurred as a result of forgetting to carry your railcard on a journey.

This wouldn’t apply in the case of an expired railcard, as it would not be possible to provide evidence after the event that you held a valid railcard at the time of travel.

8.5. If you are travelling with a Railcard discounted Ticket and are unable to present the Railcard when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Condition 9 will apply.
8.6. However, if you were unable to present the Railcard because you had forgotten to carry it on that particular journey or mislaid it, the Train Company concerned will refund any fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 10.
8.7. In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare, providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12 month period.

 

[rhombus1]

Ah yeah I did think that was unlikely!

Well I just have to wait for their reply at this stage - hopefully they just offer some monetary settlement to be done with the situation!