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LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment
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Most likely for the foreseeable future, will certainly have 2 Diagrams, the 3rd or even a 4th will depend on the availability of Azumas, which since the cracking issue is very poor.
DanNCL
Established Member
08/06
91101
1Y00 04:40 York - London
1D06 08:33 London - Leeds
1A26 11:15 Leeds - London
1D17 14:03 London - Leeds
1A41 16:45 Leeds - London
1D30 19:33 London - Leeds
91110
1A13 06:55 Skipton - London
1D10 10:33 London - Leeds
1A31 13:15 Leeds - London
1D23 17:03 London - Leeds
1A50 19:45 Leeds - London
1N36 23:00 London - York
91130 (with spare DVT 82205)
1A09 06:30 Bradford - London
1D09 10:03 London - Leeds
1A30 12:45 Leeds - London
1D21 16:03 London - Leeds
1A48 18:45 Leeds - London
1D33 21:33 London - Leeds
91101
1Y00 04:40 York - London
1D06 08:33 London - Leeds
1A26 11:15 Leeds - London
1D17 14:03 London - Leeds
1A41 16:45 Leeds - London
1D30 19:33 London - Leeds
91110
1A13 06:55 Skipton - London
1D10 10:33 London - Leeds
1A31 13:15 Leeds - London
1D23 17:03 London - Leeds
1A50 19:45 Leeds - London
1N36 23:00 London - York
91130 (with spare DVT 82205)
1A09 06:30 Bradford - London
1D09 10:03 London - Leeds
1A30 12:45 Leeds - London
1D21 16:03 London - Leeds
1A48 18:45 Leeds - London
1D33 21:33 London - Leeds
Jamesrob637
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Is LNER back up to a full timetable now that King's Cross works are done?
It's should be a 100% timetable, but due to the availability issues with Azumas there is preplanned cancellation each day.
Jamesrob637
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At least it's only the train this time. The principle of having a full timetable is something many other companies could learn from.
DanNCL
Established Member
91110 will work 3Y00 01:37 York - York via Darlington tonight, sits at Darlington P4 between 02:28 and 03:38. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:33027/2021-06-09/detailed
Edit: no longer happening, now swapped for an 801.
Edit: no longer happening, now swapped for an 801.
Last edited:
Meanwhile, LNER unveils their plans to increase capacity, by trialing coupling an Azuma to a 91 set:
Looks to be 4 per day. 1A04, 1N81, 1Y84 and 1D29.
It wont, set swapped, now a 5 car Azuma
DanNCL
Established Member
Thanks for the update, post now amended.
Westcoastna
Member
For those of you interested I visited Doncaster yesterday 09th June 2021. and I saw 91109 at Doncaster sidings visible from the platforms. Anyone know what the other two are? In service was 91124. 91101 Flying Scotsman and 91110 Battle of Britain.
87electric
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108 in the middle, 103.
Westcoastna
Member
Thanks very much for that
91101 appears to be on the diagram starting with the 0630 Bradford-Kings Cross today, with 91124 on the one starting with the 0655 Skipton-Kings Cross.
What is the purpose of this York-Darlington-York?
To clear the platform at York due to engineering possessions within the station
Fuzzytop
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Seems like fewer single 5-car Azumas out today, but still more than you'd expect.
Any likelihood of a fourth 91/Mk4 diagram at this point, or is it going to be three for the foreseeable?
Any likelihood of a fourth 91/Mk4 diagram at this point, or is it going to be three for the foreseeable?
Will be 5 cars out vice 9/10 for the foreseeable future until all the crack issues are sorted.
Highly unlikely bringing a 4th Mk4 out..... Struggle to get the 3 out daily at the moment.
DanNCL
Established Member
Another chance of a 91 making it to Darlington tonight, 3Y00 York - Darlington - York scheduled to run again in the early hours of the morning to move the set out of York station, as things currently stand it should be 91124, but as we saw on Tuesday it could change between now and then, hopefully this time the 91 will actually make it! https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:33029/2021-06-11/detailed
Whatever the issue is with getting a 4th Mark 4 set in service each day, it needs sorting out. XC often manage 4 HSTs in service each day from a fleet of 5, so it's not unreasonable to expect 4 Mark 4 sets out of a fleet of 7 to be working, even if it takes a few more weeks to get them all going again after the period out of use. The short formed 5 car 80xs that have been running have regularly been leaving people behind at stations on the Edinburgh route, even just one extra Mark 4 set on the Leeds route would allow a 5 car 80x diagram on the Edinburgh route to be doubled up to 10 car, significantly reducing the number of people left behind at stations thanks to short forms.
Am I right in thinking that a 4th diagram would only be possible with overnight stabling at the London end? I'm surprised they've even managed to get 3 diagrams fully under the wires self contained to start and end in Yorkshire each night, never mind a 4th one.
Whatever the issue is with getting a 4th Mark 4 set in service each day, it needs sorting out. XC often manage 4 HSTs in service each day from a fleet of 5, so it's not unreasonable to expect 4 Mark 4 sets out of a fleet of 7 to be working, even if it takes a few more weeks to get them all going again after the period out of use. The short formed 5 car 80xs that have been running have regularly been leaving people behind at stations on the Edinburgh route, even just one extra Mark 4 set on the Leeds route would allow a 5 car 80x diagram on the Edinburgh route to be doubled up to 10 car, significantly reducing the number of people left behind at stations thanks to short forms.
We must be talking about a different XC...
Westcoastna
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Jamesrob637
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We must be talking about a different XC...
Only Fridays pre-COVID hence one return Manchester diagram could be doubled up. Even then the Manchester was a single on a good third if not half of Fridays (I used to see it pass Heaton Chapel on my morning stroll).
Definitely not often, and not recently at all! They're lucky if they get three out at the moment.
47827
Member
There was also a need for the 4th HST on normal busier Sunday workings and during the summer for Saturday trains. I think it was just 2 sets on Tuesdays and Wednesdays traditionally but a few extra services utilised the HSTs on Mondays which were sometimes busy to balance things after the weekend. An extra third balancing diagram on Thursdays seems to ring a bell too.
Before covid came along there was even a plan to use 4 sets on more days to make better use of them, but with the current reviews of operations going on its anybody's guess whether that will ever happen now.
Now there was something about 91s to talk about here I think...
DanNCL
Established Member
Regardless whether it's 3 or 4 HSTs XC get running out of a fleet of 5, it's still better than LNER's 3 out of 7 for the Mark 4 fleet which was the point I was trying to make. If XC can get 3 sets out of 5 running, that's a 60% availability rate - 3 out of 7 for the Mark 4 fleet is only 43% availability which is pretty poor. 4 out of 7 Mark 4 sets running each day would be 57% availability, which is still lower than what XC get out of their HSTs and therefore I don't think it's unreasonable to expect LNER to be at least making efforts to get that out of the 91+Mark 4 fleet.
Agreed, I would think that in the medium-term (once all the overhauls they were recently stood down for are complete) it shouldn't be too big a stretch to go for 5 out of 7 sets running each day (would that be 71.4% availability?) Just a shame they have to be based in Leeds now which makes bringing them back to the Anglo-Scot fasts (where they would be best-suited) rather problematic. If I recall correctly the debate on the TfW mark 4s is assuming they will run 6 out of their 7 short sets albeit possibly not making full use of them at weekends. 5 out of 7 for LNER would still seem less stretched than other fleets at various operators.
Fuzzytop
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The proposed new LNER timetable for May 2022 puts the extra 1tp2h Leeds service back to a long-term aim, and suggests most Middlesbrough services will be curtailed at York until 2023. I am no expert but it would not surprise me to see the 91s/Mk4s being needed for only a very small number of diagrams (if any).
In fact I'd struggle to see how they'd cope with the proposed new timings for the Leeds service (5/10 minutes faster but all services now making at least two calls south of Doncaster).
In fact I'd struggle to see how they'd cope with the proposed new timings for the Leeds service (5/10 minutes faster but all services now making at least two calls south of Doncaster).
D365
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That's because it's nothing to do with EMR train operation. IC225s are now based at Neville Hill, though I was under the impression that EMR are vacating the premises.
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