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LNER compulsory reservations - what happens if you don’t have one?

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stevetay3

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When reserving a seat through the app, it offers two columns to select from, one each for standard class and first class. On making the relevant selection it just gives a page stating that the reservation is confirmed, and shows the journey and, further down the page, the seat reserved. No mention of ticket type or a price. I'm confused by what you are saying you saw.
This.solves it a bit all done in a bit of a hurry, might have pressed the wrong button.
 
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johntea

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I know this is more a display limitation than a LNER one probably but it does make me laugh stood at Leeds waiting for the service to Harrogate the rare times I visit the office these days and see 'Reservations are recommended for this service' on the departure boards...in reality that particular leg of the service a passenger could each have an entire coach to themselves and there would probably be a couple left over even if they did that :D

Far more useful may be to scrap that text and replace it with something such as advising the correct coaches passengers need to board if they are wishing to alight at Horsforth...which got me thinking is the reservation system clever enough to allocate a suitable coach if a passenger buys a ticket with that destination? (Just using that route as an example, there are several other stations with platforms that are too short to fit the entire train)
 

Peter Mugridge

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The current situation works well for people in the know as long as there's always an open ticket office...
LNER currently have a consultation out on ticket office hours which involves some particularly severe reductions in opening hours; could this be connected with a desire to push people towards reservations?
 

Haywain

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LNER currently have a consultation out on ticket office hours which involves some particularly severe reductions in opening hours; could this be connected with a desire to push people towards reservations?
That’s a strange conclusion to be drawing. The reality is that fewer people are using ticket offices to buy tickets, as more and more are bought online and through apps.
 

Peter Mugridge

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That’s a strange conclusion to be drawing. The reality is that fewer people are using ticket offices to buy tickets, as more and more are bought online and through apps.
I'm not drawing any conclusions; I'm merely wondering because of the timing of the consultation coming out just after this compulsory reservations controversy.
 

Bikeman78

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Of course that relies on the typical British reserve of being reluctant to challenge the 'squatter'...;)
In most cases I don't think the passenger ever turned up. It's easy to spot if they do. Normally they walk down the carriage clutching their reservation, stop next to their occupied seat and look a bit confused!
 

Mainline421

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If the train is showing as full on the TVM that means that all the seats plus the counted places have been sold. Personally I'd never want to try to get on a train that is that full, not just in the current climate.
Personally I'd rather take my chances, and either way that message is wrong. If LNER deem this to be such an issue all that is needed is bright red message saying something like:

"No seat reservations are available on this service. We highly recommend you select another service. You can still travel on this service but may have to stand for part or all of the journey." Could use the same thing online as well...
 

Wallsendmag

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Personally I'd rather take my chances, and either way that message is wrong. If LNER deem this to be such an issue all that is needed is bright red message saying something like:

"No seat reservations are available on this service. We highly recommend you select another service. You can still travel on this service but may have to stand for part or all of the journey." Could use the same thing online as well...
Unfortunately having the mandatory reservation flag on every services forces a TVM to reserve a seat, if it were to issue a ticket without a reservation it would be an accreditation failiure.
 

Watershed

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Unfortunately having the mandatory reservation flag on every services forces a TVM to reserve a seat, if it were to issue a ticket without a reservation it would be an accreditation failiure.
I think there's a bit of circular reasoning going on there.

The situation only arises in the first place because LNER have kept all services marked as 'reservations compulsory' in the data, even though that is no longer the case.

And it only becomes an issue for customers because they have chosen to go with an itinerary-based TVM, which has no way of just selling tickets on its own.

There are many things that they could do to prevent this, but as I've said all along, Covid has just been a convenient excuse for pushing the 'airline on rails' policy.
 

py_megapixel

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Unfortunately having the mandatory reservation flag on every services forces a TVM to reserve a seat, if it were to issue a ticket without a reservation it would be an accreditation failiure.
The situation only arises in the first place because LNER have kept all services marked as 'reservations compulsory' in the data, even though that is no longer the case.
What is actually needed as a long-term solution - and what LNER really should be pushing for - is for the backend systems to be updated to support a new flag which would cause booking engines to make a reservation where possible, but still sell the ticket even if it can't.

The way I envisage this working is that when a customer selects an itinerary involving a service with this flag, the default is that a reservation is made. However, if no seats are available, or the customer manually selects that they do not want a reservation, it should still sell the ticket accompanied by a prominent on-screen warning that they are likely not to have a seat on that service.
That logic shouldn't be too difficult to implement in frontend systems, but I can't imagine updating the backend to support a new 'flag' is a small undertaking. So it's understandable it's not been done immediately, but it really needs to be if LNER is to continue with this policy long-term.

Another tangentially related but different question is, are those TVMs set up to be able to reserve wheelchair spaces? If not, some disabled passengers (and their able-bodied companions, if they want/need to be able to sit together!) are probably being issued with entirely unsuitable reservations, which then prevent other passengers from buying tickets.
 

Bletchleyite

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Unfortunately having the mandatory reservation flag on every services forces a TVM to reserve a seat, if it were to issue a ticket without a reservation it would be an accreditation failiure.

And that is why that flag should not be on where reservations are not mandatory.

It is a bodge of a workaround that is causing problems.

Reservations should be entirely mandatory or entirely optional (if recommended on known busy trains). No middle ground. This situation is the worst of both worlds.

What is actually needed as a long-term solution - and what LNER really should be pushing for - is for the backend systems to be updated to support a new flag which would cause booking engines to make a reservation where possible, but still sell the ticket even if it can't.

There already is such a flag - reservations recommended - there would just need to be agreement on changing exactly what the accredited implementation is.

There are many things that they could do to prevent this, but as I've said all along, Covid has just been a convenient excuse for pushing the 'airline on rails' policy.

I wouldn't even mind if it was done properly. What they have now is a nasty bodge.
 
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mikeg

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A further question: if passengers can board without a reservation but a tvm refuses to sell a ticket, was there an opportunity to purchase? Could the passenger pay on board?
 

Watershed

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A further question: if passengers can board without a reservation but a tvm refuses to sell a ticket, was there an opportunity to purchase? Could the passenger pay on board?
If the TVM isn't capable or willing to sell a ticket, I don't see why it's any different whether that's due to ill-considered timetable data, or if the machine was just broken/out of service. So yes, they could pay on board if there was no other means of buying a ticket.
 

Wallsendmag

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What is actually needed as a long-term solution - and what LNER really should be pushing for - is for the backend systems to be updated to support a new flag which would cause booking engines to make a reservation where possible, but still sell the ticket even if it can't.

The way I envisage this working is that when a customer selects an itinerary involving a service with this flag, the default is that a reservation is made. However, if no seats are available, or the customer manually selects that they do not want a reservation, it should still sell the ticket accompanied by a prominent on-screen warning that they are likely not to have a seat on that service.
That logic shouldn't be too difficult to implement in frontend systems, but I can't imagine updating the backend to support a new 'flag' is a small undertaking. So it's understandable it's not been done immediately, but it really needs to be if LNER is to continue with this policy long-term.

Another tangentially related but different question is, are those TVMs set up to be able to reserve wheelchair spaces? If not, some disabled passengers (and their able-bodied companions, if they want/need to be able to sit together!) are probably being issued with entirely unsuitable reservations, which then prevent other passengers from buying tickets.
I believe updating the flag is the plan there are also problems with the catering flag
 

infobleep

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If the train is showing as full on the TVM that means that all the seats plus the counted places have been sold. Personally I'd never want to try to get on a train that is that full, not just in the current climate.
Does this mean every seat has been booked save coach C?

I reckon some people might board a train and not sit in their seats. I did this the other day when there was no luggage space remaining in one coach this was on an Avanti service.
 
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Haywain

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Does this mean every seat has been booked save coach C?
It means what he said, all the seats that are reservable plus the counted places - which exceed the number of unreservable seats - have been sold.
 

infobleep

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It means what he said, all the seats that are reservable plus the counted places - which exceed the number of unreservable seats - have been sold.
OK. So in theory there shouldn't be any more seats if everyone turns up.
 

infobleep

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That’s correct, for all or part of the specified journey.
Of course, if ticket offices are open less, then less chance of counter place reservations being available, if they are the only ones that can issue such a thing
 

cuccir

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I'd just add my dissatisfaction to the current set-up. I know the majortiy of LNER customers are long-distance travellers for whom reserving a seat will often be a priority, but passengers doing short-hops reamin part of their usesr as well, and as it stands the TVMs are not user-friendly for someone who is showing up at a station and wanting a simple day-return to leave on the next train, and return on a train at whatever time they happen to have finished.

eg the TVM won't sell a ticket for a train departing within 5 minutes. I've found myself making bookings on trains that I have no intention of getting in order to make the TVM sell me a ticket - that's not a good set-up. I can only imagine it putting off more infrequent/less rail-nerdy passengers.

I hope this can be resolved fairly swiftly as passenger numbers are clearly ramping up.
 

Bletchleyite

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It just needs un-bodging, i.e. putting back the way it was.

Then, if LNER wants to move to actually compulsory reservations, to properly design a system to implement that based on the systems used by railways accomplished in that approach, e.g. SNCF and FS, and not implementing it until all that is ready.
 

Wallsendmag

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I'd just add my dissatisfaction to the current set-up. I know the majortiy of LNER customers are long-distance travellers for whom reserving a seat will often be a priority, but passengers doing short-hops reamin part of their usesr as well, and as it stands the TVMs are not user-friendly for someone who is showing up at a station and wanting a simple day-return to leave on the next train, and return on a train at whatever time they happen to have finished.

eg the TVM won't sell a ticket for a train departing within 5 minutes. I've found myself making bookings on trains that I have no intention of getting in order to make the TVM sell me a ticket - that's not a good set-up. I can only imagine it putting off more infrequent/less rail-nerdy passengers.

I hope this can be resolved fairly swiftly as passenger numbers are clearly ramping up.
The 5 minute booking headway is to stop people booking on a train they haven’t a chance of catching remember it’s not just walk up tickets that the TVMs retail.How would you feel if you bought an Advance ticket for a train in 4 minutes time and by the time you got to the platform the doors were closed And your ticket was worthless. The TVMs can’t possibly be all things to all people.
 

Bletchleyite

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The 5 minute booking headway is to stop people booking on a train they haven’t a chance of catching remember it’s not just walk up tickets that the TVMs retail.How would you feel if you bought an Advance ticket for a train in 4 minutes time and by the time you got to the platform the doors were closed And your ticket was worthless. The TVMs can’t possibly be all things to all people.

Pretty much the entire purpose of a TVM is to sell last-minute tickets. So this is not fit for purpose.

No, it shouldn't sell an Advance that close to departure, but it should absolutely sell a walk-up.

Get rid of the half-job compulsory-but-not-compulsory-reservations nonsense and then they could have a conventional "pick the ticket you know you want" mode like Chiltern's do (for example).
 

Wallsendmag

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So could you guarantee every customer can make the train remember at the larger stations the TVMs are quite some way from departure platforms. There is a very very small number of tickets that you can set up for that option most of our TVMs already have these set up for non LNER flows as these are the majority of tickets they sell.
 
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