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LNER Tyne Valley Diversions-2020

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Class 170101

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Why are the doors being opened at Carlisle. I get that they have to change power modes and crew, but the doors seem unnecessary at an unadvertised stop.

I always thought the stop was for people who wanted Glasgow / Motherwell to be able to change without travelling via Edinburgh.
 
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Anvil1984

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Yes , you can use it without any issue from Carlisle to Newcastle.

Are you sure? This year seems to be different to previous. In previous years the Carlisle stop was shown on the screens at Newcastle and the train showing on the boards at Carlisle, this year (or at least today) neither was the case and the LNER trains aren't showing on National Rail Enquiries for Carlisle to Newcastle and vice versa. A change of policy from LNER?
 

High Dyke

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Travelled to Newcastle on the Inverness service this morning. Had to be elsewhere, or I may have been tempted to travel further.
 

route101

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Are you sure? This year seems to be different to previous. In previous years the Carlisle stop was shown on the screens at Newcastle and the train showing on the boards at Carlisle, this year (or at least today) neither was the case and the LNER trains aren't showing on National Rail Enquiries for Carlisle to Newcastle and vice versa. A change of policy from LNER?

It used to be used as a connection from Glasgow to Newcastle with change at Carlisle. Last year they were advertised at Carlisle, remember quite a few getting on at Carlisle.

Is the Glasgow LNER still running the diverts?

Travelled to Newcastle on the Inverness service this morning. Had to be elsewhere, or I may have been tempted to travel further.

I took the Inverness service from Edinburgh to Perth yesterday. Went via Ladybank.
 

Anvil1984

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It used to be used as a connection from Glasgow to Newcastle with change at Carlisle. Last year they were advertised at Carlisle, remember quite a few getting on at Carlisle.

Yep I agree about previous years, when the Northern service was rammed it provided good overflow and allowed for a good day out but seemingly this year something seems to have changed. Don't know why even with Carlisle historically being the place to change for Glasgow when the work is going on
 

route101

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Yes, and it was usually the dragged 91 service as well because that is what used to go to Glasgow on the Friday evening.

I do wonder if it could omit Edinburgh and go straight down the WCML Carlisle and to Newcastle.
 

JonathanH

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I do wonder if it could omit Edinburgh and go straight down the WCML Carlisle and to Newcastle.
No, the fact that the Glasgow starter isn't running in this year's diversions recognises that the important flow being maintained is Edinburgh to Newcastle and London. Anyone from Glasgow requiring Newcastle is more than adequately serviced by Avanti services to Carlisle and Northern services over the Tyne Valley.
 

FQTV

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It’s possible to board at Carlisle with a seat reservation for points South, but only with an Anytime ticket.

There are no ‘Advance LNER Only’ options from or to Carlisle.

As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, Raileasy/Trainsplit is the best online outlet for tickets with reservations to/from Carlisle.
 

Ianno87

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I do wonder if it could omit Edinburgh and go straight down the WCML Carlisle and to Newcastle.

Doubt there's enough Glasgow passengers to justify it.

The daily service only really goes there to stable at Polmadie - it's not fulfilling any particular demand necessity.
 

route101

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Doubt there's enough Glasgow passengers to justify it.

The daily service only really goes there to stable at Polmadie - it's not fulfilling any particular demand necessity.

Surprised LNER still run through to Glasgow, still nicer than a xc voyager.

Maybe not showing services calling at Carlisle is to limit numbers for social distancing.
 

JonathanH

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For those chasing the new units on TV and WCML, new units today:

801101/800208 1S19/1E30

800103 1S21
For the purpose of record, todays allocations taken from RTT

Northbound
800205+801106 1S04 0950 Newcastle to Edinburgh
801109+800210 1S05 0830 Leeds to Edinburgh
800107 1W08 0848 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
801110+800206 1S10 0930 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800113 1W12 1030 London Kings Cross to Inverness
801108+800204 1S15 1130 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800110 1W17 1230 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800208+801101 1S19 1330 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800103 1S21 1430 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
801111+800207 1S23 1530 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800112 1S25 1630 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800101 1S27 1730 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh

Southbound
800112 1E13 0944 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800101 1E15 1044 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801112+800209 1E17 1144 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800104 1E19 1244 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800108 1E21 0940 Inverness to London Kings Cross
801109+800210 1E23 1446 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800107 1E25 1544 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801110+800206 1E27 1644 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801106+800205 1E28 1745 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801108+800204 1E29 1844 Edinburgh to Leeds
800208+801101 1E30 1942 Edinburgh to Doncaster
 

7522

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I did this yesterday with 800207 on 1S04 and 800210 on 1E25 (800210 and 801109 was on 1E25, for some reason allocation not listed on RTT).

On both journeys the train manager was very clear that passengers were not supposed to board for Carlisle, even though the automatic announcements did announce Carlisle as a stop. I hope this is just for social distancing and that travel to Carlisle will be allowed again next year. I enjoyed travelling LNER to Carlisle last year, better than a Sprinter.

I was in the 800 both ways. Didn't seen any problem keeping to time using just the 3 engines. These services are given plenty of time anyway and on 1E25 we arrived 7 minutes early into Newcastle even though the northern stopping service was just in front.
 

Mathieu

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Surprised LNER still run through to Glasgow, still nicer than a xc voyager.

Maybe not showing services calling at Carlisle is to limit numbers for social distancing.
I believe running services to GLC is part of the contact commitment for the franchise, they used to run loads to GLC but now I believe they run 1 each direction as to meet the criteria for the contract
 

route101

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I did this yesterday with 800207 on 1S04 and 800210 on 1E25 (800210 and 801109 was on 1E25, for some reason allocation not listed on RTT).

On both journeys the train manager was very clear that passengers were not supposed to board for Carlisle, even though the automatic announcements did announce Carlisle as a stop. I hope this is just for social distancing and that travel to Carlisle will be allowed again next year. I enjoyed travelling LNER to Carlisle last year, better than a Sprinter.

I was in the 800 both ways. Didn't seen any problem keeping to time using just the 3 engines. These services are given plenty of time anyway and on 1E25 we arrived 7 minutes early into Newcastle even though the northern stopping service was just in front.

I suppose there was nothing in reality to stop people alighting and boarding at Carlisle?
 

Prudhoe

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For the purpose of record, todays allocations taken from RTT

Northbound
800205+801106 1S04 0950 Newcastle to Edinburgh
801109+800210 1S05 0830 Leeds to Edinburgh
800107 1W08 0848 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
801110+800206 1S10 0930 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800113 1W12 1030 London Kings Cross to Inverness
801108+800204 1S15 1130 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800110 1W17 1230 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800208+801101 1S19 1330 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800103 1S21 1430 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
801111+800207 1S23 1530 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800112 1S25 1630 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh
800101 1S27 1730 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh

Southbound
800112 1E13 0944 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800101 1E15 1044 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801112+800209 1E17 1144 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800104 1E19 1244 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800108 1E21 0940 Inverness to London Kings Cross
801109+800210 1E23 1446 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
800107 1E25 1544 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801110+800206 1E27 1644 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801106+800205 1E28 1745 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross
801108+800204 1E29 1844 Edinburgh to Leeds
800208+801101 1E30 1942 Edinburgh to Doncaster

According to RTT, there was a swap at KX:

1S23 800102/801214

1S27 800207/801111
 

stantheman

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RTT showing diversions on:

Saturdays 19/9/20 3/10/20 10/10/20
Sundays 20/9/20 27/9/20 4/10/20 11/10/20

Not currently showing Sat 26/9/20

l/e 67007 did a driver training run today between Newcastle-Carlisle-Newcastle
RTT shows Tyne Valley diversions also on Sat17 Oct , seems t9 be fewer services though , Sat 24 Oct and for some reason a handful on Sat31 October
 

43055

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RTT shows Tyne Valley diversions also on Sat17 Oct , seems t9 be fewer services though , Sat 24 Oct and for some reason a handful on Sat31 October
It looks like the timetable is still being worked on for these weekends. Some cross country services are showing as terminating at Morpeth on these dates which is like this weekend so it may turn out to be a similar service to this weekend.
 

dave59

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Why are these diversions so slow Carlisle to Newcastle? e.g 1E15 1h 50m - for 61 miles! 1N66 (a scheduled service train with 4 stops takes 1h23. Do these LNER trains stop to admire the scenery?

Interestingly the LNER 80x running times on the WCML north of Carlisle are faster than TPX class 397 workings.
 

Anvil1984

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Why are these diversions so slow Carlisle to Newcastle? e.g 1E15 1h 50m - for 61 miles! 1N66 (a scheduled service train with 4 stops takes 1h23. Do these LNER trains stop to admire the scenery?

Interestingly the LNER 80x running times on the WCML north of Carlisle are faster than TPX class 397 workings.

There's a lot of pathing time / padding due to some long signalling sections, absolute block and also for the single line leading from London Road Jn to Carlisle (as well as potential catching up to a Freight / Northern stopper). Of course as Carlisle is a non-public stop it can also arrive and depart Carlisle early
 

swt_passenger

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There's a lot of pathing time / padding due to some long signalling sections, absolute block and also for the single line leading from London Road Jn to Carlisle (as well as potential catching up to a Freight / Northern stopper). Of course as Carlisle is a non-public stop it can also arrive and depart Carlisle early
As far as RTT explains things, and combining pathing and engineering allowances, it all adds up to 30 mins...
 

FQTV

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Why are these diversions so slow Carlisle to Newcastle? e.g 1E15 1h 50m - for 61 miles! 1N66 (a scheduled service train with 4 stops takes 1h23. Do these LNER trains stop to admire the scenery?

Interestingly the LNER 80x running times on the WCML north of Carlisle are faster than TPX class 397 workings.
There's a lot of pathing time / padding due to some long signalling sections, absolute block and also for the single line leading from London Road Jn to Carlisle (as well as potential catching up to a Freight / Northern stopper). Of course as Carlisle is a non-public stop it can also arrive and depart Carlisle early

It also seems to be due to platform allocations at Newcastle. We arrived 11 minutes early at King Edward Bridge Junction last Sunday, and sat on the bridge until we then pulled in at the booked time.

Frustratingly, this then meant a 42 minute wait for a connection, having watched two services which would otherwise have been suitable sail by us as we remained motionless.
 

Anvil1984

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As far as RTT explains things, and combining pathing and engineering allowances, it all adds up to 30 mins...

Also add in (on a Saturday) the LNER follows the Hexham to Teesside stopper. (Northern at xx56, LNER at 04- 06) and the Northern stops 7 times en-route in addition to the signal sections

It also seems to be due to platform allocations at Newcastle. We arrived 11 minutes early at King Edward Bridge Junction last Sunday, and sat on the bridge until we then pulled in at the booked time.

I'm guessing you were on 1E15 which was at KEB North at 1330 but arrived Newcastle at 1346. Due to platform lengths at Newcastle the 10 car LNER services can only use platforms 2,3,4


The service previously using platform 4 was the TPE leaving at 1344. As the Bay Platforms 9 - 12 are only allowed to hold 4 cars they are out. Platform 1 is a possibility but the timetable has in booked via KEB and it avoids a conflict across KEB South Jn
Platform 3 had the 9 car Inverness service in between 1337 - 1350 so was unavailable
Platform 2 had a Crosscountry blocking it for a while but again if it was anything other than a 4 car (so a 5 car or double set), it can't use any of the west facing bays, when tha
Platform 5 and 6 combined had another CrossCountry in and platforms 7 and 8 were needed for Northern services.

Long story short, it looks like the right decision was to hold that one on the bridge and not much more could have been done. Just frustrating that with the lengthening of trains (specifically TPE) the bays haven't been done yet
 
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FQTV

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I'm guessing you were on 1E15 which was at KEB North at 1330 but arrived Newcastle at 1346. Due to platform lengths at Newcastle the 10 car LNER services can only use platforms 2,3,4

It was 1E19 a couple of hours later, but I suspect that similar situations prevailed.

I was aware of the long connection at Newcastle, of course, it was just the tantalisation of possibly making the earlier Transpennine that the early-running offered.

I was actually coming back from Glasgow, but for some of the reasons noted above, I’d elected to route Glasgow > Edinburgh > Carlisle > Newcastle rather than Glasgow > Carlisle > Newcastle, crossing the island three times to get home in five and a quarter hours.

The direct service outbound took just under three, of course.
 

Anvil1984

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It was 1E19 a couple of hours later, but I suspect that similar situations prevailed.

I was aware of the long connection at Newcastle, of course, it was just the tantalisation of possibly making the earlier Transpennine that the early-running offered.

I was actually coming back from Glasgow, but for some of the reasons noted above, I’d elected to route Glasgow > Edinburgh > Carlisle > Newcastle rather than Glasgow > Carlisle > Newcastle, crossing the island three times to get home in five and a quarter hours.

The direct service outbound took just under three, of course.

Oh I can totally see why you'd be frustrated, I would be too! Its just one of those things, It didn't help that nothing was going North of Newcastle (in some previous weeks XC were running hourly to Morpeth and Northern had their services one every two hours there but not the last couple of weeks). And TPE were presumably easier to find a platform for when they were 3 cars . But yeah it was pretty much the same sadly.
 
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