Locked in at Blackburn Station

[Haywain]

If it's past their booking off time then why should they wait?

If it's past their booking off time they're working a very badly written roster. The roster should allow for time for locking up the station *after* the arrival of the last train and departure of its passengers and crew. I would also expect an allowance for late running of the last service. This could result in the booking off time being rather generous, but that's just one of those things. In this case we don't know why the station was locked but there was clearly a cock-up (human error) of some sort.

 

[221129]

For those jumping down my throat, absolutely the station staff should have made arrangements instead of just leaving. But they absolutely have the right to leave at their scheduled time. For all we know, the backshift could have gone sick so the earlier shift agreed to stay on as long as they could. But there comes a point where they legally have to go home regardless of anything else.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For those jumping down my throat, absolutely the station staff should have made arrangements instead of just leaving. But they absolutely have the right to leave at their scheduled time. For all we know, the backshift could have gone sick so the earlier shift agreed to stay on as long as they could. But there comes a point where they legally have to go home regardless of anything else.

This depends entirely on what their contract says. In most jobs, one does not have the right to leave precisely at one's scheduled time.

 

[221129]

If it's past their booking off time they're working a very badly written roster. The roster should allow for time for locking up the station *after* the arrival of the last train and departure of its passengers and crew. I would also expect an allowance for late running of the last service. This could result in the booking off time being rather generous, but that's just one of those things. In this case we don't know why the station was locked but there was clearly a cock-up (human error) of some sort.

Correct. We don't know the circumstances. I would suggest that it is likely to be someone covering as above.

 

[Haywain]

False imprisonment is a criminal offence so I'd expect they would, yes.

This wasn't false imprisonment though, it was a cock-up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This wasn't false imprisonment though, it was a cock-up.

From a very quick Google it appears that the offence can be committed negligently as well, which locking up a station when the last train was still up there on the display could well constitute.

I'm not suggesting charging anyone with it, just that the Police would respond to a 999 call on it.

 

[mikeg]

Surely the OP should have been able to use the fire escape? I was always taught in my health and safety training that locking a fire escape from the inside is a criminal offence. Furthermore, where I work the fire escapes work from the inside 24/7 was the same at my previous employer too.

 

[87 027]

Wasn't that question answered in post 9?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the OP should have been able to use the fire escape? I was always taught in my health and safety training that locking a fire escape from the inside is a criminal offence. Furthermore, where I work the fire escapes work from the inside 24/7 was the same at my previous employer too.

It's permitted to lock fire escapes if nobody is in a building.

 

[robbeech]

Surely the OP should have been able to use the fire escape? I was always taught in my health and safety training that locking a fire escape from the inside is a criminal offence. Furthermore, where I work the fire escapes work from the inside 24/7 was the same at my previous employer too.

It's permitted to lock fire escapes if nobody is in a building.

Indeed and many places leave them locked up / lock them up early to save a few precious minutes anyway.
Many theatres will have fire exits chained up the second the audience leaves* despite there still being visiting people working there for at least an hour afterwards.

*and indeed over the years I’ve probably had to complain about locked and/or blocked fire exits between 40 and 50 times in the UK alone and have cancelled 2 shows (afternoon and evening) and taken the theatre through the courts and won when “the bloke with the key isn’t in today”.

This sort of stuff happens all over the place.

 

[dosxuk]

But they absolutely have the right to leave at their scheduled time.

Depends what their contract says. My contract says I stay until the job is done, if that means three extra hours waiting for people to finish, then it's three extra hours I wait for. I would be very surprised if there wasn't similar conditions in place for the key-holders of stations.

Surely the OP should have been able to use the fire escape? I was always taught in my health and safety training that locking a fire escape from the inside is a criminal offence. Furthermore, where I work the fire escapes work from the inside 24/7 was the same at my previous employer too.

None of the places I've ever worked have left the fire exits unlocked when the building is otherwise locked and empty. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea has obviously never seen how easy it is to pop open push bar fire exits from the closed side - it's impossible to secure a building against entry if it's got those standard types of fire exits to the outside world without some secondary locking mechanism.

 

[Llanigraham]

For the same reason as a bus driver can't just get out of the seat and walk off when it ticks back their official booking off time - because it is a matter of public safety not to lock them into buildings.

If you want a job where you can just walk off when the clock chimes, and you're station staff at a station with no access to the platforms other than through the buildings, you're in the wrong job.

Not only that, but if doing the job competently they'd have noticed that there was a train booked to call after they locked up, and that they needed to make calls etc to resolve that, either someone else being found to cover or the train being cancelled.

"Not my job guv" doesn't wash. If you notice a problem, it is your responsibility to bring it to the attention of people who can solve it, in any job.

The bus driver situation you mention has happened, since I was a passenger. Due to delays the driver was running out of hours so stopped at the next motorway services and left us there. The company had to send out a relief driver who arrived over an hour later.

There are plenty of examples of similar things happening on the railway. Personally I closed the Marches Line one morning when my relief didn't turn up and I had done a 12 hour night shift. Therefore I would have been over my hours if I had stayed in the Box, and I know it has happened twice more since I had to retire.T

I can also remember a similar problem to this from when I first started. There used to be a late UP that terminated at Shrewsbury on a Saturday night but it arrived after the staff there shifted ended. Several times people got stuck so they eventually altered the time table and the train terminated for passengers at either Hereford or Leominster and ran ECS forwards.

 

[AlterEgo]

False imprisonment is a criminal offence so I'd expect they would, yes.

You’d probably be waiting for a while once they ascertained you were in a safe place and there was no emergency.

That isn’t to say that what happened isn’t a serious breach of health and safety, though.

 

[Llanigraham]

For safety reasons.

I would have thought that the normal booking off time for station staff should be some time after the scheduled arrival of the last train.

Station staff should have access to information about whether the last train is running late, and there should be a procedure in place for staff to follow if the late running of the last train will cause them to go past their scheduled booking off time.

If staff have to wait past their scheduled booking off time, they should of course be paid overtime, and transport home (eg. a taxi) should be arranged if required.

I regularly travel back from London to Ludlow via Hereford, arriving at Hereford after 2100 and there are never any staff present and only the small side gate left unlocked.

 

[nw1]

Hopefully they will be disciplined accordingly.

I don't think that's necessary, they just need to have the situation explained to them so it will not happen again. Discipline just sounds like revenge, which is a dark motivation. Ignorance rather than malice is likely the root cause, which is likely to be a failing of management rather than the people on the ground.

 

[mikeg]

I don't think that's necessary, they just need to have the situation explained to them so it will not happen again. Discipline just sounds like revenge, which is a dark motivation. Ignorance rather than malice is likely the root cause, which is likely to be a failing of management rather than the people on the ground.

Can only agree with this. Why customers always want staff disciplining for what is often a corporate cock up is beyond me.

Oh and thanks for the info re fire escapes everyone. I learned something new and suppose it makes sense given that both businesses I worked at also had people in 24/7.
Of course, you could argue that there were to be people in the building once the train arrived and then the law was broken.

But either way it's a cock up. What's more important is that lessons are learnt and that the OP is duly compensated.

 

[matt_world2004]

I have been in a similar situation during a tube strike in London some years ago.

Due to the strike Blackhorse Road station was closed, and London Overground services were not meant to stop.

However the service I was on, going towards Barking, did stop, but when we went upstairs the gate leading into the London Underground part of the station, and thus the exit, was locked.

Therefore I, and several other people, were trapped on the London Overground platforms with no legal means of escape.

Fortunately another train back towards South Tottenham was due, and it stopped to pick everyone up, and those who wanted to alight at Blackhorse Road were warned not to.

Had there been no means of escaping by train, I would have dialled 999.

Needless to say, my complaint to London Underground was met with the standard reply of "..nothing to do with us Guv, it's London Overground's fault..", and nothing ever came of the incident.

The incident at Blackburn needs to be investigated thoroughly as it is surely a serious breach of Health & Safety legislation to leave passengers locked inside a station with no means of escape. What if there had been a medical emergency or a fire? (Although presumably in these circumstances the fire brigade would have broken down the door or smashed a window.

I thought LU stations had lattice gates that could be opened internally only when the station was locked although that may not be obvious to the passengers

 

[Falcon1200]

If, for whatever reason, the staff could not/would not remain on duty for the last train, why lock the station up, could it not have been left open ? Unless, somehow, the staff were completely unaware of the last train (although presumably the train service is the same every Saturday, but the OP's situation does not happen every week ?)

 

[duncanp]

I thought LU stations had lattice gates that could be opened internally only when the station was locked although that may not be obvious to the passengers

Yes, the gate at Blackhorse Road between the London Overground bridge and the London Underground ticket hall is a lattice gate rather than a concertina gate.

It is used to block off access to the London Overground platforms when the service isn't running due to engineering works.

The gate was definitely locked when I got off the London Overground train during the strike.

Whether it was supposed to be locked I don't know.

 

[Sprinter107]

Maybe the station had been unstaffed if they hadn't got the usual staff on duty for whatever reason, and somebody from somewhere else was sent to lock the station up, and made the simple error of thinking the last train of the day had already arrived, and so locked the station. It could be that the passenger information screens only display departures and not arrivals so a terminating train wouldn't be displayed, and the person sent to lock up being unfamiliar with the service. Maybe its a genuine mistake. Not nice for the people trapped of course.

 

[najaB]

Can only agree with this. Why customers always want staff disciplining for what is often a corporate cock up is beyond me.

Well, it would probably be more accurate to say "I hope the employees are subject to proper disciplinary processes". That process could end with action being taken against the employee if they messed up, or may result in no action being deemed necessary.

 

[Class800]

Would prefer action against the company that manages the station

 

[skyhigh]

They should help - but my only experience of them in such a situation was negative - police allowing an ambulance to block a car park exit trapping people in, when the casualty wasn't unconscious and the ambulance could have easily parked just inside the carpark. So, personally I wouldn't trust them to help me.

I wouldn't say that was false imprisonment, and unless you're a medical expert I would trust the judgement of paramedics about where is best to park the ambulance while they assist someone in need - I don't think that says anything at all about how emergency services would react you found yourself locked in somewhere as it's a completely different situation.

 

[najaB]

Would prefer action against the company that manages the station

Of course, the OP's complaint would be made to/about Northern. They then need to follow their internal disciplinary procedures to see if this was negligence on the part of staff or an organisational failure.

Depending on the outcome and the response from the TOC then the OP may want to make a complaint to the appropriate authority (ORR? DfT?).

 

[Titfield]

I don't think that's necessary, they just need to have the situation explained to them so it will not happen again. Discipline just sounds like revenge, which is a dark motivation. Ignorance rather than malice is likely the root cause, which is likely to be a failing of management rather than the people on the ground.

Absolutely any "incident" needs to be properly investigated to establish was this caused by (a) lack of training or knowledge (b) failing to follow set down procedure (c) communication error (d) fault in procedure (e) failure to apply common sense given that not every possible eventuality can be covered in training.

Disciplinary action should only be taken for "dereliction of duty" when the duty was clearly laid down and understood by the person it was to be carried out by.

Investigating an incident and asking an employee to recount their actions is not in itself disciplinary action. If an employee is required to carry out additional training that too is not in itself disciplinary action.

 

[najaB]

I wouldn't say that was false imprisonment...

Indeed. In that situation vehicles were being impounded, but people weren't being imprisoned.

 

[Class800]

Indeed. In that situation vehicles were being impounded, but people weren't being imprisoned.

If you are referring to the carpark example, I would disagree with you as it was a small country town and the last bus had gone so people had no other way out.

Re the Blackburn situation, I think it's most important that Northern establish what happened, and learn from it

 

[Gloster]

A case at Horsley nearly fifty years ago., when it was staffed for all but the first and last trains. Access was normally through the building past the booking window, but when it was unstaffed there was a side gate near the footbridge (which people who were used to the usual exit sometimes took a while to find). A member of relief staff who didn’t work there often locked up but didn’t open the gate. A handful of passengers off the last train had to go off the end of the platform and climb through the fence. This is Surrey commuter land, so stiff letters of complaint ensued.

 

[Kite159]

A case at Horsley nearly fifty years ago., when it was staffed for all but the first and last trains. Access was normally through the building past the booking window, but when it was unstaffed there was a side gate near the footbridge (which people who were used to the usual exit sometimes took a while to find). A member of relief staff who didn’t work there often locked up but didn’t open the gate. A handful of passengers off the last train had to go off the end of the platform and climb through the fence. This is Surrey commuter land, so stiff letters of complaint ensued.

I seem to recall something similar at Sutton station a couple years ago when it was locked up before the last train arrived trapping passengers on the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I seem to recall something similar at Sutton station a couple years ago when it was locked up before the last train arrived trapping passengers on the station.

I'm near-certain it's also happened at Rochdale, another island platform on an embankment that means you couldn't easily jump the fence.

I'm sure it actually happens far more often but doesn't get reported because most stations have side platforms and a lowish fence to the outside world, so the typically able-bodied young-to-middle-aged males who predominate the passengers on late-night trains* would just joke about it then jump the fence and no complaint would ever be made.

* Why this is is potentially for debate elsewhere, but it does seem to be pretty universally the case.