Loco hauled trains into and out of Glasgow Central 1976-1981

[Mag_seven]

Been trawling through the internet looking to see if class 31s ever made it into Central. Being common at Carlisle I would have thought that one might have found itself on a stopper via Kilmarnock.

I would bet my house that it happened - I'm almost convinced I might have seen one in the 80's but that might just be my mind wanting to think that!

 

[Whistler40145]

I would bet my house that it happened - I'm almost convinced I might have seen one in the 80's but that might just be my mind wanting to think that!

31s have definitely worked on the Carlisle to Glasgow Central via Kilmarnock, usually returning back to Carlisle on a following service

 

[hexagon789]

When was the Ayr to Euston service stopped? Could run it today with the number of Ayrshire accents i hear on the pendo up to Glasgow at night

On checking my BR timetables, in 1988 it still starts from Ayr; by 1990 it doesn't anymore.

So either 1988 or 1989 was the last year, I don't have a 1989 timetable to check.

 

[Whistler40145]

Wasn’t there several occasions when a HST set was used loco hauled using a special generator van

 

[hexagon789]

Wasn’t there several occasions when a HST set was used loco hauled using a special generator van

On the Western Region, yes due to the Valentas overheating they both derated the power cars to 2,000hp as well as made use of the generator van to haul trailers on a particular diagram, presumably suitably ammended so that it wasn't timed for 125mph

 

[route101]

On checking my BR timetables, in 1988 it still starts from Ayr; by 1990 it doesn't anymore.

So either 1988 or 1989 was the last year, I don't have a 1989 timetable to check.

I have a 1989 SPT timetable . Its in that , also shows the interesting intercity services from Queen St.

 

[Cowley]

31s have definitely worked on the Carlisle to Glasgow Central via Kilmarnock, usually returning back to Carlisle on a following service

I’m not so sure about that. If you could provide some evidence then I’d believe it but from what I remember 31s were pretty rare at Glasgow Central.

 

[Whistler40145]

I’m not so sure about that. If you could provide some evidence then I’d believe it but from what I remember 31s were pretty rare at Glasgow Central.

I didn't say they were regular visitors to Glasgow Central, but occasionally turned up if no other traction was available

 

[Cowley]

I didn't say they were regular visitors to Glasgow Central, but occasionally turned up if no other traction was available

I’ve still never seen a photo. I mean entirely possible that they did but I think they were very rare on that route.
Has anyone else got a photo of a 31 at Glasgow Central on here?

 

[Whistler40145]

I’ve still never seen a photo. I mean entirely possible that they did but I think they were very rare on that route.
Has anyone else got a photo of a 31 at Glasgow Central on here?

The only time I've had 31s out of Glasgow Central were on an A1A Charters railtour, 31465/31467

 

[Mag_seven]

I didn't say they were regular visitors to Glasgow Central, but occasionally turned up if no other traction was available

I would bet once or twice at the most.

 

[Whistler40145]

I would bet once or twice at the most.

Be a Carlisle based train crew if they did

 

[hexagon789]

I’ve still never seen a photo. I mean entirely possible that they did but I think they were very rare on that route.
Has anyone else got a photo of a 31 at Glasgow Central on here?

I'm aware of them having occasionally worked Newcastle-Edinburgh locos and I've seen a couple of photos of them in the Edinburgh area but never Glasgow other than railtours.

 

[Whistler40145]

I'm aware of them having occasionally worked Newcastle-Edinburgh locos and I've seen a couple of photos of them in the Edinburgh area but never Glasgow other than railtours.

Indeed, they did work through from Newcastle to Edinburgh

 

[hexagon789]

I have a 1989 SPT timetable . Its in that , also shows the interesting intercity services from Queen St.

There were still about 4 daily HSTs in and put of Queen Street until 1990. Progressive electrification of the ECML say them withdrawn with the two-hourly extensions to Glasgow Central introduced.

 

[hexagon789]

Indeed, they did work through from Newcastle to Edinburgh

Someone said it was the only way Gateshead could make sure us Scots didn't pinch their locos!

 

[d9009alycidon]

There are plenty of photos of class 31s at Central, just none in the period set by the OP, most interesting one I have come across is one of 31412 at Ayr on September 15th 1990, the narrative of the photo reports that "after working the 1400 Summer Saturdays only Scotrail service from Carlisle, which was formed of 4 coaches & should have been worked by 37229, but it failed on arrival at Carlisle, after working the 1040 from Ayr."

 

[hexagon789]

There are plenty of photos of class 31s at Central, just none in the period set by the OP, most interesting one I have come across is one of 31412 at Ayr on September 15th 1990, the narrative of the photo reports that "after working the 1400 Summer Saturdays only Scotrail service from Carlisle, which was formed of 4 coaches & should have been worked by 37229, but it failed on arrival at Carlisle, after working the 1040 from Ayr."

Same loco, same day near Dumfries: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/21892017026/in/album-72157627485105194/

 

[Mag_seven]

Same loco, same day near Dumfries: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/21892017026/in/album-72157627485105194/

And at Ayr (not my photo)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151904976@N08/29706629767/

 

[Dr Hoo]

The book 'Glasgow Central - Central to Glasgow', published in 2006 in aid of The Railway Children charity has an excellent selection of photographs of the range of traction used, including a Class 31, for example. However, many shots are undated and relatively few relate to the period mentioned by the OP.

A very varied read with 36 short chapters, mainly written by senior railway managers.

 

[route101]

There were still about 4 daily HSTs in and put of Queen Street until 1990. Progressive electrification of the ECML say them withdrawn with the two-hourly extensions to Glasgow Central introduced.

Kings X and Scarborough were the desitinations i think.

 

[hexagon789]

Kings X and Scarborough were the desitinations i think.

In 1988 there are only 125s to King's Cross, but in 1990 there's also a summer service to Newquay but that might be loco-hauled rather than an HST

 

[Whistler40145]

There used to be a Glasgow Central to Blackpool North service, was this operated only during the Glasgow Holidays?

I remember a service in the days of InterCity Swallow livery of a rake of Mark 2 Air Cons arriving into Preston behind an 86/2 and a Class 47 dropped on the other end for the short journey to Blackpool North

 

[hexagon789]

There used to be a Glasgow Central to Blackpool North service, was this operated only during the Glasgow Holidays?

I remember a service in the days of InterCity Swallow livery of a rake of Mark 2 Air Cons arriving into Preston behind an 86/2 and a Class 47 dropped on the other end for the short journey to Blackpool North

It was formed of Sealink Mk1s on at least one occasion

 

[d9009alycidon]

The book 'Glasgow Central - Central to Glasgow', published in 2006 in aid of The Railway Children charity has an excellent selection of photographs of the range of traction used, including a Class 31, for example. However, many shots are undated and relatively few relate to the period mentioned by the OP.

A very varied read with 36 short chapters, mainly written by senior railway managers.

One of my favourite books - probably as it is the only one I have ever had a photographic credit in!!!

 

[Mag_seven]

There used to be a Glasgow Central to Blackpool North service, was this operated only during the Glasgow Holidays?

It was certainly a summer dated service and probably for more than just the Glasgow holidays - I would guess more aligned with Scottish school holidays i.e. July and the first half of August.

Kings X and Scarborough were the destinations i think.

There was a Glasgow Central to Scarborough HST on summer Saturdays in the mid 80s.

 

[d9009alycidon]

There used to be a Glasgow Central to Blackpool North service, was this operated only during the Glasgow Holidays?

I remember a service in the days of InterCity Swallow livery of a rake of Mark 2 Air Cons arriving into Preston behind an 86/2 and a Class 47 dropped on the other end for the short journey to Blackpool North

Not sure when these finished, but there was the 1M21 08:30 (SO) Glasgow to Blackpool which ran 12th June to 28th August and the 1M32 09:15 (SO) Glasgow to Morcambe which ran 26th June to 14th August. In earlier days these would have had one or more reliefs as required. Pretty sure they ran into the mid 1970s as the stock and paths were used for Mystex and "taster" excursions and I do remember going on these around 1975/6. As I remember the Blackpool train was local Mk1 stock but curiously the Morcambe set was a Carlisle based MkII set.

Edit - just checked the carraige workings site and both trains are present in the 1981-82 carraige workings. Worth getting on this site as it is a mine of information. Used to be on Yahoo but now has this address https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main
go to Files - Carraige Workings and look for the list on the google drive, this has hyperlinks to a load of documents

 

[delt1c]

Been trawling through the internet looking to see if class 31s ever made it into Central. Being common at Carlisle I would have thought that one might have found itself on a stopper via Kilmarnock. Earliest I have found so far was 31430 and 31431 on the "Thames Clyde Express" railtour from St Pancras on 3 May 1989.

Spent many hours spotting at Central in the 70’s and never saw a 31. Even from the railway press never read of such occurrence. Surely had it happened it would have been widely publicised. Would have to see a picture

 

[CW2]

Whilst not entirely within the OP timescales, I worked in Glasgow Control in the mid 80s and confirm that class 31s were very rare in Glasgow Central at that time - and I believe that was also the case in the period enquired about.
I only ever saw one class 31 at Glasgow Central, and that was in 1984 when the numerically unusual 31101 worked in on a parcels train, and was sent straight back south on the 22:xx parcels to Nottingham (1M65?). It was that unusual that I delayed my journey home to get a few photos of it.

Class 31 did work into Edinburgh Waverley from the Newcastle direction from time to time, whenever the Eastern Region were short of power and had nothing better to offer. By chance the heaviest southbound overnight was the 2230 Edinburgh - Kings Cross (1E39) and that was booked for Gateshead traincrew, so if there was ever anything that only they could drive - such as a class 31 or 37 - it ended up on that train. I had a 31 on it once - on load 14 it was 105' late by York!

I think the train to Glasgow formed of Sealink stock was the 0120 (SO) Stranraer - Blackpool. A circuit of Sealink stock worked Glasgow Central - Stranraer - Blackpool - Stranraer - Glasgow Central. (In previous years this had been an out-and-back working from the Blackpool end, northbound on a Friday evening and returning south at 01:20 Saturday). The direct Glasgow - Blackpool may also have been Sealink stock - I don't recall.

The Glasgow - Morecambe was notable for being diesel hauled throughout, and also for doing the direct line Hest Bank - Bare Lane i.e. not via Lancaster.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Not sure when these finished, but there was the 1M21 08:30 (SO) Glasgow to Blackpool which ran 12th June to 28th August and the 1M32 09:15 (SO) Glasgow to Morcambe which ran 26th June to 14th August. In earlier days these would have had one or more reliefs as required.

I recall the GLC to BPN having multiple reliefs at the busiest times, particularly for Glasgow Fair Saturday. The Saturday of the Paisley Fair saw a direct Paisley Gilmour Street to Blackpool North train.

I was on Queen St one Fair Saturday morning and the single booked Summer Saturdays Scarborough train had 3 reliefs, all presumably re-engined in Edinburgh as they left behind class 27s

Traveled on the push pools a few times and they were normally diverted in Queen St low Level when Queen St was closed. Most commonly using the Bathgate Line. This did make for a quick disenbarking at low level between EMU's

Push pulls were often diverted to Central as were their predecessor DMUs. Any block between Newbridge Jn and Haymarket would rule out the Bathgate route being used.
Diversions were normally on a Sunday when EMU service through Qn St Low Level were less frequent although I could appreciate they would still want the train out of the way asap.