London to Norwich - 90 min timings

[David Turner]

Just discovered a ninety minute timing between London and Norwich on the 20th May. Further checking shows services at 11.00 and 19.00 from London and 9.00 and 17.00 from Norwich.

Shown in http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G08262/2019/05/20/advanced

 

[Starmill]

Reports are that Greater Anglia plan to operate these services with new Class 755 electro-diesel stock, if they are ready for service in time. Note that, as per the timetable, this means no First Class accomodation is available.

 

[jha4ceb]

I thought the Class 755s were primarily intended for the local services, not the mainline?

 

[dk1]

I thought the Class 755s were primarily intended for the local services, not the mainline?

They are here first and expected to be cleared for use by May/June. No local units leave the franchise until August. This idea allows the 90min commitment to happen as planned.

 

[Trainfan344]

Will be interesting to see the performance of these services and those around them when they come into action.

 

[Railperf]

Will be interesting to see the performance of these services and those around them when they come into action.

It will be very interesting if the 755s are not ready in time and they have to use class 90s instead!!

 

[Railperf]

The timings are very tight indeed and it will be very interesting to say if most timings can be achieved reliably on a day-to-day basis. The preceding Braintree and Southend services cannot afford to have any hiccups on route.

 

[RailWonderer]

Was raising the track speed in some sections to 110mph on the GEML ever an option? North of Ipswich or south of Shenfield could’ve been an idea. I guess not since the FLIRTS are standard 100mph trains. Does anyone know why this wasn’t possible?

 

[Railperf]

Was raising the track speed in some sections to 110mph on the GEML ever an option? North of Ipswich or south of Shenfield could’ve been an idea. I guess not since the FLIRTS are standard 100mph trains. Does anyone know why this wasn’t possible?

I read somewhere that it was considered. Presumably the costs of upgrading the track signalling and overhead line equipment ruled it out. Anyway raising the maximum speed differential between the intercity trains and stopping services would reduce track capacity.

 

[dk1]

Was raising the track speed in some sections to 110mph on the GEML ever an option? North of Ipswich or south of Shenfield could’ve been an idea. I guess not since the FLIRTS are standard 100mph trains. Does anyone know why this wasn’t possible?

Sheer cost of level crossing upgrades which would be prohibitive for an extra 10mph and congestion at the southern end of the route.

 

[cle]

Would there be any point in aiming for 125mph north of Colchester, where the mixed traffic drops off a lot? Or better addressing any smaller increases/restrictions which do more proportionally?

 

[Ianno87]

Was raising the track speed in some sections to 110mph on the GEML ever an option? North of Ipswich or south of Shenfield could’ve been an idea. I guess not since the FLIRTS are standard 100mph trains. Does anyone know why this wasn’t possible?

I guess the problem is there's not much benefit when as soon as you're at 110mph, you're braking for Stowmarket... then Diss. Etc. Etc.

 

[GB]

Would there be any point in aiming for 125mph north of Colchester, where the mixed traffic drops off a lot?

It doesn't drop off all that much....still have all the freights etc. The only trains you lose after colchester is the Clactons and Waltons.

 

[306024]

Indeed. Mixed traffic doesn't drop off until North of Haughley Jn. The Ipswich - Haughley section is busier than perhaps perceived.

 

[dk1]

Indeed. Mixed traffic doesn't drop off until North of Haughley Jn. The Ipswich - Haughley section is busier than perhaps perceived.

And beyond that has 12 sets of AHBs that would need upgrading at the cost of £millions & that's before OHL & track upgrading.

 

[306024]

The timings are very tight indeed and it will be very interesting to say if most timings can be achieved reliably on a day-to-day basis. The preceding Braintree and Southend services cannot afford to have any hiccups on route.

That is precisely the issue. Cynics would suggest this is political expediency over operational practicality.

 

[cambsy]

Looking at Real Time Trains, the 90 minute London-Norwich trains have the proceeding London-Norwich train arriving only 3 minutes ahead of it at Norwich, which is another train which cant have any issues or will hold it up too, the 90 minute trains have 6 mins of various recovery built in so potentially could be done in 84 mins, it will be interesting to see if it ever does it in 84 mins?

 

[cambsy]

I have just booked advance tickets for the 20th May, on the 11.00 London-Norwich and 17.00 Norwich-London, to see what the service is like and how it runs? I know it risky and could well go wonky on the day but for 20 return its worth the punt, i noticed one thing and worth noting if anyone else going for this train, there are no allocated reserved seats on these trains, so looks like free for all, the inside looks nice and smart from YouTube videos I’ve seen, i wouldn’t be surprised if there bit of fanfare and maybe some top bods on the service, could be fun.

 

[31160]

In the long term then is it not the plan to run some 755's to liv st on Gt Yarm or Lowestoft through trains

 

[dk1]

In the long term then is it not the plan to run some 755's to liv st on Gt Yarm or Lowestoft through trains

Lowestoft via the East Suffolk only.

 

[Railperf]

What is the betting that on the very first day this will be operated by a class 90?

 

[dk1]

What is the betting that on the very first day this will be operated by a class 90?

Strong possibility & contingency plan in place. Have to see how it goes.

 

[Railperf]

Does anyone know whether there will be a press launch in advance of this first day?

 

[Railperf]

Strong possibility & contingency plan in place. Have to see how it goes.

What is the contingency - a Class 90 pulling a shortened rake of 5 or 6 mk 3s? Or better still top and tail 90s?

 

[dk1]

What is the contingency - a Class 90 pulling a shortened rake of 5 or 6 mk 3s? Or better still top and tail 90s?

No point in top/tail 90 as would still need the DVT. Possibly a shorter set as would still need the other IC rakes in traffic. Timing trials have taken place.

 

[VT 390]

In the long term then is it not the plan to run some 755's to liv st on Gt Yarm or Lowestoft through trains

Lowestoft via the East Suffolk only.

How many coaches will operate on these services?. Will they split/join on route as 3 or 4 coaches seams about right from Ipswich to Lowestoft but not enough going in to Liverpool Street.

 

[dk1]

How many coaches will operate on these services?. Will they split/join on route as 3 or 4 coaches seams about right from Ipswich to Lowestoft but not enough going in to Liverpool Street.

No diagramming details for these or many of the future timetables have been released yet. Not expected to start before May 2020 so anything could change in the next year or so.

 

[Grumbler]

What is the betting that on the very first day this will be operated by a class 90?

Perhaps just a class 90 running light, with a handful of pax in the rear cab? That would deliver "Norwich in 90"!

 

[dk1]

Perhaps just a class 90 running light, with a handful of pax in the rear cab? That would deliver "Norwich in 90"!

Max speed is 75mph light engine.

 

[The Planner]

Looking at Real Time Trains, the 90 minute London-Norwich trains have the proceeding London-Norwich train arriving only 3 minutes ahead of it at Norwich, which is another train which cant have any issues or will hold it up too, the 90 minute trains have 6 mins of various recovery built in so potentially could be done in 84 mins, it will be interesting to see if it ever does it in 84 mins?

Depends how much is before Ipswich, it will sit waiting time if there is a load before there.