Longest distance of track without a tunnel?

[Halish Railway]

Note: apologies if a similar thread already exists.

I was just thinking about the twisty nature of the West Coast Mainline, especially through the Lakes and Scotland which cling to the side of the valley. This gave me a thought - what is the longest stretch of track that doesn’t have a tunnel through a natural physical feature (going under buildings don’t count).

I can’t think of a single tunnel between Warrington and Glasgow Central (220 miles).

 

[InOban]

Is there any tunnel between just north of Grantham and Calton Edinburgh?

 

[Peter0124]

Note: apologies if a similar thread already exists.

I was just thinking about the twisty nature of the West Coast Mainline, especially through the Lakes and Scotland which cling to the side of the valley. This gave me a thought - what is the longest stretch of track that doesn’t have a tunnel through a natural physical feature (going under buildings don’t count).

I can’t think of a single tunnel between Warrington and Glasgow Central (220 miles).

There's Eglinton Street Tunnel about a mile south of GLC.

The only route you can take to get to Glasgow Central from England without using a tunnel is via Dumfries I believe (could be mistaken if someone can point that out) As the Cathcart Circle diversionary route also has Kirkhill Tunnel (290yds). The Low Level route into GLC is mostly in a tunnel too

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I can’t think of a single tunnel between Warrington and Glasgow Central (220 miles).

As Peter0124 has just pointed out, there's the 200 yds long Eglinton Street tunnel about a mile out of Glasgow Central.

Does the M6/M74 crossing the WCML near the Scotland-England border create anything resembling a tunnel?

 

[yorkie]

Assuming you mean continuous track has to exist to avoid having to reverse, I think you could get a train from Ludlow to Newark via the Shrewsbury & Wolverhampton avoiding lines, and then via the Edinburgh Suburban line? I am not certain on that; I may be missing a tunnel...

(Does the Grand Union go over the line on a bridge, or is that deemed to be a tunnel? In any case, any tunnel under a canal would be exempt in the above definition, so that wouldn't invalidate it)

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Is there any tunnel between just north of Grantham and Calton Edinburgh?

There's Askham Tunnel just south of Retford - 57 yards.

 

[Halish Railway]

Assuming you mean continuous track has to exist to avoid having to reverse, I think you could get a train from Ludlow to Newark via the Shrewsbury & Wolverhampton avoiding lines, and then via the Edinburgh Suburban line? I am not certain on that; I may be missing a tunnel...

(Does the Grand Union go over the line on a bridge, or is that deemed to be a tunnel? In any case, any tunnel under a canal would be exempt in the above definition, so that wouldn't invalidate it)

I was focusing more on the routes taken along the routes of passenger/freight trains past and present.

 

[Mag_seven]

Does the M6/M74 crossing the WCML near the Scotland-England border create anything resembling a tunnel?

Not according to the OP's criteria of the tunnel having to be through a natural physical feature.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there any tunnel between just north of Grantham and Calton Edinburgh?

Assuming you mean continuous track has to exist to avoid having to reverse, I think you could get a train from Ludlow to Newark via the Shrewsbury & Wolverhampton avoiding lines, and then via the Edinburgh Suburban line? I am not certain on that; I may be missing a tunnel...

(Does the Grand Union go over the line on a bridge, or is that deemed to be a tunnel? In any case, any tunnel under a canal would be exempt in the above definition, so that wouldn't invalidate it)

There are several tunnels on the ECML between Newark and Edinburgh.

1) Askham Tunnel (57yds) just south of Retford
2) Askew Rd Tunnel (53yds) where the Carlisle line joins
3) Red Barns Tunnel (98yds) north of Manors

Now all of them do have roads over, but they are officially tunnels.

 

[Mag_seven]

The only route you can take to get to Glasgow Central from England without using a tunnel is via Dumfries I believe (could be mistaken if someone can point that out)

There is a tunnel near Mauchline (Mossgiel).

 

[yorkie]

It's tricky because the original post asks specifically for "a tunnel through a natural physical feature"; it seems likely that these short tunnels only exist because of the requirement to carry roads over the ECML.

For example see attached image (from Google Maps) showing the longest of these, Red Barns Tunnel, looks like a bridge and acts as a bridge. I am not going to deny it's a tunnel but I don't think it counts under the criteria specified.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Waterloo to Fisherton Tunnel?

Paddington to Somerton Tunnel?

Paddington to Birmingham Moor Street if you aren't bothered about direct services?

 

[yorkie]

Paddington to Birmingham Moor Street if you aren't bothered about direct services?

The OP simply asked for the longest stretch of track, and it's in the infrastructure section, so I see no reason why it wouldn't count, but I don't think it would be the longest.

An actual timetabled service operating the longest distance without encountering a tunnel would be a separate question; if anyone wishes to post this in the timetabling section they are welcome to do so

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't think it would be the longest.

I'm sure it's not, but my brain is too fuzzy at this time of night to think properly what might be longer, let alone have the energy to check it!

 

[hermit]

Is there any tunnel between just north of Grantham and Calton Edinburgh?

There used to be a tunnel between Berwick and Edinburgh at Penmanshiel, which collapsed when being worked on in 1979, with sad loss of life. The tunnel was abandoned and the line diverted.

I remember it well as at the time I was travelling regularly between Edinburgh and London, so experienced diversions via Carstairs for some time. I think extra WCML services were put on.

 

[john prytherch]

The WCML has no tunnels between Shugborough and Glasgow Eglinton Street. Apart from Preston Brook, just remembered that.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's tricky because the original post asks specifically for "a tunnel through a natural physical feature"; it seems likely that these short tunnels only exist because of the requirement to carry roads over the ECML.

For example see attached image (from Google Maps) showing the longest of these, Red Barns Tunnel, looks like a bridge and acts as a bridge. I am not going to deny it's a tunnel but I don't think it counts under the criteria specified.

I’ll give you that.

Askham Tunnel south of Retford is, though, definitely a Tunnel. Yes it has a road over it, and it may well have been specifically because of that road, but it was bored, and is through a hill.

However, you could rightly say that you could still get to Newark via Gainsborough. And if you can get to
Newark, you can get to Nottingham. And if you can get to Nottingham, you can get to Burton on Trent. And from there via St Andrews, Leamington, Oxford, Reading West to Somerton. I’m sure there’s more possible!

Dammit - Harbury Tunnel.

 

[matt]

Paddington to Birmingham Moor Street if you aren't bothered about direct services?

Which way as there is Harbury tunnel between Banbury and Leamington?

 

[adc82140]

Waterloo to Fisherton Tunnel?

There's a short tunnel under the Basingstoke Canal between Brookwood and Farnborough

 

[Mag_seven]

There's a short tunnel under the Basingstoke Canal between Brookwood and Farnborough

But is a tunnel that just goes under a canal the same as a tunnel that "goes through a natural physical feature" as per the OP's original criteria?

 

[adc82140]

But is a tunnel that just goes under a canal the same as a tunnel that "goes through a natural physical feature" as per the OP's original criteria?

In the case of this one, it's not just the canal but a bit of the surrouding landscape as well that is tunnelled under. The railway is in a deep cutting here, and the tunnel is a bit that was never cut out when the railway was built. Although I concede that its formal name is "Frimley Aqueduct"

 

[waverley47]

In Scotland you can't go further north than the central belt. There's tunnels at Dunblane, Inverkeithing and one on the South sub, and both sides of Waverley station, Dundee, the Killiecrankie tunnel north of Perth and Cardross tunnel just west of Dumbarton central.

My humble suggestion therefore, starting at Dundee, through Dunfermline, Alloa, Cumbernauld, Coatbridge, WCML to Golbourne, Manchester Piccadilly, et cetera.

The number of different possible routes gets too many after Manchester so I leave that for someone else to determine, however my sneaking suspicion is that the longest route will be down the CLC to Hartford, turn onto the WCML and head back up north again.

Any advance on this roundabout route?

 

[JModulo]

There is a tunnel near Mauchline (Mossgiel).

and another at Enterkinfoot (North of Thornhill).

 

[swt_passenger]

In the case of this one, it's not just the canal but a bit of the surrouding landscape as well that is tunnelled under. The railway is in a deep cutting here, and the tunnel is a bit that was never cut out when the railway was built. Although I concede that its formal name is "Frimley Aqueduct"

I‘d have thought the only practical way of building that at the time was to dig the entire cutting out and then build the aqueduct. Then it would probably have been done again, for quadrupling?

 

[DelW]

I‘d have thought the only practical way of building that at the time was to dig the entire cutting out and then build the aqueduct. Then it would probably have been done again, for quadrupling?

It was indeed built in two sections, the southern pair of arches being added around 1900.
I'm sure that you're right, on both occasions the canal would have been dug out, the piers and arches built and backfilled, and the canal reinstated. The piers are too narrow to have built by tunnelling.
It's possible that the canal was diverted around the aqueduct when first built, but by the time of quadrupling it was pretty well moribund, and I suspect it was just closed for the duration.
If it was being built now, it would have been a concrete trough, like the nearby aqueduct over the Blackwater Valley road.

 

[Gloster]

I‘d have thought the only practical way of building that at the time was to dig the entire cutting out and then build the aqueduct. Then it would probably have been done again, for quadrupling?

There was an article about it in a recent edition of the Journal of the South Western Circle; I will try and look it out. Without checking, I don’t think it is officially a tunnel, but you can’t get far south of Basingstoke without passing through a tunnel. You could take a Sunday diversion to Southampton via the Laverstock curve.

 

[92042]

There's Eglinton Street Tunnel about a mile south of GLC.

The only route you can take to get to Glasgow Central from England without using a tunnel is via Dumfries I believe (could be mistaken if someone can point that out) As the Cathcart Circle diversionary route also has Kirkhill Tunnel (290yds). The Low Level route into GLC is mostly in a tunnel too

Drumlanrig Tunnel north of Dumfries?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Shall we say that less than 100 yards/100 metres doesn't count as they could just be road overpasses? Mutley Tunnel in Plymouth is less than 100 metres if you don't count the bit under the car park.

 

[Gloster]

Shall we say that less than 100 yards/100 metres doesn't count as they could just be road overpasses?

I have a recollection of being told that it wasn’t a tunnel if it was less than sixty yards, even if it was bored through terrain. Over sixty yards, then I think it was a tunnel unless everything above it was man-made.

 

[MadMac]

In Scotland you can't go further north than the central belt. There's tunnels at Dunblane, Inverkeithing and one on the South sub, and both sides of Waverley station, Dundee, the Killiecrankie tunnel north of Perth and Cardross tunnel just west of Dumbarton central.

My humble suggestion therefore, starting at Dundee, through Dunfermline, Alloa, Cumbernauld, Coatbridge, WCML to Golbourne, Manchester Piccadilly, et cetera.

The number of different possible routes gets too many after Manchester so I leave that for someone else to determine, however my sneaking suspicion is that the longest route will be down the CLC to Hartford, turn onto the WCML and head back up north again.

Any advance on this roundabout route?

Isn’t there a tunnel near Cumbernauld (Abronhill)?