Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bus9120UK]

Repaints continue, with B5LH's 551-556, 558, 564, 567 & 570 all now painted into the newest livery. It's actually 1 month till 567 will have been in the colours for a year! 557/559/561 are the ones off the road at the moment as they get their paints complete. 846/8 have both now been painted and had vinyls applied but neither have entered service yet. 841/9 are the current ones in the repaint process, both I think currently being prepped. As mentioned previously 174 is now white as it becomes a trainer, and 175 will probably follow. All the tour buses have had new fleet numbers added, larger than the previous ones, as well as LEZ vinyls on the rear (some have them on the front too). LEZ vinyls continue to spread around the fleet with them now appeared on eVoRa's, ex-londons, etc.

Is there any news about the service update?

No, I suspect the next news regarding it will be the official announcement from Lothian which more than certainly will be discussed here.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

841 was getting vinyls removed a few days ago, so she's getting a repaint.

*Not sure why it was done in Seafield Works though.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

*Not sure why it was done in Seafield Works though.

Lothian usually do their own prep work, unless Ferrymill/Volvo are carrying out repairs.

842 is now the only one of 841-850 to still be in service in its outgoing livery.

 

[ScotRail158725]

841 was getting vinyls removed a few days ago, so she's getting a repaint.

*Not sure why it was done in Seafield Works though.

All buses are branded/debranded at Seafield. The only work done out of house it major RTC or mechanical repair and paint. All vinyls are removed and added at seafield etc…

 

[LothianBusesPh]

All buses are branded/debranded at Seafield. The only work done out of house it major RTC or mechanical repair and paint. All vinyls are removed and added at seafield etc…

Thanks, thought Ferrymill scrapped the vinyls but I was wrong! Makes sense thinking about it though.

Is the 140 changing routes slightly or something?

Vehicle Operator Licensing - GOV.UK

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk

Registration number PM1050765/32
Licence NumberPM1050765
Variation number12
Status Variation
Service number.140
Service type Normal Stopping
Start point Penicuik Town Centre
Finish point Tesco, Musselburgh Via Loanhead, Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Whitecraig
Date received 29 Jul 2022
Effective date 11 Sep 2022
End date
Supported by subsidies?No
Local authorities covered by route East Lothian Council
Midlothian Council
TAOs covered by route Scotland

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Is the 140 changing routes slightly or something?

Vehicle Operator Licensing - GOV.UK

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk

Doesn't look like it? It’s always terminated at the town centre in Penicuik and Musselburgh Tesco since it went to ECB. and it always has served Loanhead, Bonnyrigg, Whitecraig etc.

They should just extend it to Ocean Terminal and be done with it! (Waiting to be told how unviable this suggestion will be..)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Thanks, thought Ferrymill scrapped the vinyls but I was wrong! Makes sense thinking about it though.

Is the 140 changing routes slightly or something?

Vehicle Operator Licensing - GOV.UK

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk

See posts #6,347 to #6,352. This has already been discussed.

 

[computerSaysNo]

This is an incredibly minor detail but I'm making another map because I'm bored so I'll ask anyway, feel free to ignore if you like.
Do we think the 12 will be moved from Shandwick Place stop SB to stop SA? As SA currently has all the services to the south, and SB has all the services to the north/east. So if the 12 is going down George IV and via Cameron Toll it should be with the rest of the City South services?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

This is an incredibly minor detail but I'm making another map because I'm bored so I'll ask anyway, feel free to ignore if you like.
Do we think the 12 will be moved from Shandwick Place stop SB to stop SA? As SA currently has all the services to the south, and SB has all the services to the north/east. So if the 12 is going down George IV and via Cameron Toll it should be with the rest of the City South services?

I hope they will. My suggestion was:

From Haymarket: HB, HC*, SA*, PC, GG, GK and MD towards King’s Road and then GP, GS, PX, SE, SG, HJ towards the Gyle.

They may very well opt to leave HD and SB in place rather than using HC/SA. Changing PE to PC seems inevitable (it would match the 41), so I’ve marked that accordingly.

 

[computerSaysNo]

and then GP, GS, PX, SE, SG, HJ towards the Gyle.

I'm not sure about GP and GS, the 31 doesn't currently stop there I don't think?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I'm not sure about GP and GS, the 31 doesn't currently stop there I don't think?

No, but the 42 does. So I reckon they’ll want to maintain that.

 

[computerSaysNo]

No, but the 42 does. So I reckon they’ll want to maintain that.

Yeah that's true.
Plus I guess the 31 only doesn't stop there because it's on diversion, whereas if the 12/42 are permanent then I suppose they will still stop.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

This is an incredibly minor detail but I'm making another map because I'm bored so I'll ask anyway, feel free to ignore if you like.
Do we think the 12 will be moved from Shandwick Place stop SB to stop SA? As SA currently has all the services to the south, and SB has all the services to the north/east. So if the 12 is going down George IV and via Cameron Toll it should be with the rest of the City South services?

No it’s very interesting please go on! i can see a few stop alterations being made for the new 12 route!

I think it’ll stop in SB in shandwick place and then PC, GG, GK and then the remaining stops to Kings Road.

Mark my words, I’m willing to bet one of the comments Lothian are going to get when they announce this service change is outcry for them cutting the link between Craigleith/Stockbridge with Bristo Square/Portobello!

”Now I have to get two buses now, thanks a lot Lothian now how will I get to work on time“

 

[LothianBusesPh]

See posts #6,347 to #6,352. This has already been discussed.

Cheers again.

No it’s very interesting please go on! i can see a few stop alterations being made for the new 12 route!

I think it’ll stop in SB in shandwick place and then PC, GG, GK and then the remaining stops to Kings Road.

Mark my words, I’m willing to bet one of the comments Lothian are going to get when they announce this service change is outcry for them cutting the link between Craigleith/Stockbridge with Bristo Square/Portobello!

”Now I have to get two buses now, thanks a lot Lothian now how will I get to work on time“

If you're from Portobello and you're getting a 42 to Craigleith you're out of your mind!

 

[90019]

f you're from Portobello and you're getting a 42 to Craigleith you're out of your mind!

That won't stop the people who don't use it complaining about how they're losing such a lifeline service.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

That won't stop the people who don't use it complaining about how they're losing such a lifeline service.

People complain about everything sadly, this is a good change in my opinion.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

That won't stop the people who don't use it complaining about how they're losing such a lifeline service.

That is the way it works sadly, same with the 22 users who could just use the 16, or swap in town easily!

People complain about everything sadly, this is a good change in my opinion.

Well to be fair as long as the link between Town and Portobello is saved then that’s good, the Stockbridge section is perfectly covered as it is.

Saying that, evening and Sunday services remain a mystery, I know it’s speculated it’ll be Gyle-City but I like to remain optimistic

 

[ScotRail158725]

That is the way it works sadly, same with the 22 users who could just use the 16, or swap in town easily!



Well to be fair as long as the link between Town and Portobello is saved then that’s good, the Stockbridge section is perfectly covered as it is.

Saying that, evening and Sunday services remain a mystery, I know it’s speculated it’ll be Gyle-City but I like to remain optimistic

Can see the Sunday service operating throughout but i can see the evening service being down to hourly the whole route. With it being Marine based the evening services will likely run throughout however if it was just to be Gyle-City it would likely follow a similar path to the 19, which is formed of a bus off the 37 and another Central route, so for the 12s case the vehicles that come of the 22 instead of returning to Central at the end of rush hour go onto the 12. Those are the only ways i see it working

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Can see the Sunday service operating throughout but i can see the evening service being down to hourly the whole route. With it being Marine based the evening services will likely run throughout however if it was just to be Gyle-City it would likely follow a similar path to the 19, which is formed of a bus off the 37 and another Central route, so for the 12s case the vehicles that come of the 22 instead of returning to Central at the end of rush hour go onto the 12. Those are the only ways i see it working

The two 19’s you’re thinking of do indeed both come off Central routes. The xx29 each hour from Granton Square to the city comes off a 23, and the xx59 is each hour from Granton Square to the city as you said comes off a 37. These only run Monday to Saturday though as Marine does it all day on a Sunday, which actually means the late night Granton to King’s Road run now only runs on a Sunday, and half an hour later than it used to run. The last full run to King’s Road used to be 2329 from Granton Monday to Saturday and 2259 from Granton on Sundays but since the pandemic that has gone and it’s now as above. The current Monday to Saturday set up with Central doing the late evenings is something I was hoping they’d do for a long time. I suspect the reduced frequency on Sundays across the network makes it very difficult to implement but if it was possible it would also be done.

As I’ve said before I actually think the whole new 12 will stop after 8/9pm now, and that the Sunday service will stop completely. If it does indeed end up being Gyle to City and back on evenings and Sundays it’s probably more likely Longstone would run it as I can’t see them wanting to use deckers on it, Longstone of course having way more single decks. If it were Central running with singles they’d have to come off the 1, which could happen. Although that’s one of the routes without any changes registered thus far.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I don't get how they can't just use Marine buses for it? The route terminates at the depot anyway so why can't they transfer some single decks to Marine from Longstone?

 

[CN04NRJ]

I don't get how they can't just use Marine buses for it? The route terminates at the depot anyway so why can't they transfer some single decks to Marine from Longstone?

Exactly. Plenty of 7900s barely being used that can be transferred - Central could easily be all deckers (maybe about 5 kept for contingency?) and most of buses 1-15 moved to Marine or Longstone as needed.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I don't get how they can't just use Marine buses for it? The route terminates at the depot anyway so why can't they transfer some single decks to Marine from Longstone?

I’d be very surprised if anyone other than Marine will be running the daytime 12. It’s the potential evening and Sunday service I and others are referring too, which if it’s only part of the route (ie Gyle to City) it would seem unlikely that Marine will run those particular journeys, and that’s if they even run at all.

If no buses move depots (except for the 12), I’m expecting something like 31-33 to move to Marine with the potential that Longstone may gain some of the 14 plate ones they don’t have to make up the numbers. I heard a rumour from a friend that the 2 could move depot yet again but I’ve seen nothing to back this up, which obviously would likely result in Marine losing a handful of 7900’s (unless the 45 went back to being fully single decks again).

 

[computerSaysNo]

I heard a rumour from a friend that the 2 could move depot yet again but I’ve seen nothing to back this up, which obviously would likely result in Marine losing a handful of 7900’s (unless the 45 went back to being fully single decks again).

What's wrong with the 2, do the drivers really hate it that much?
Really though, that's going to be four garage changes in under two years (?) if it changes again.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

What's wrong with the 2, do the drivers really hate it that much?
Really though, that's going to be four garage changes in under two years (?) if it changes again.

Just put it back to Longstone, it was fine there! Central running it was one I never understood to be honest.

 

[90019]

At this point, it feels like they might as well send the 1 back to Longstone and just get rid of the single decks at Central.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

At this point, it feels like they might as well send the 1 back to Longstone and just get rid of the single decks at Central.

I do think that is a sensible thing to do, the 1 is almost directly at Longstone so it would be no hassle swapping it.

 

[ScotRail158725]

What's wrong with the 2, do the drivers really hate it that much?
Really though, that's going to be four garage changes in under two years (?) if it changes again.

Since Covid started it went Longstone to Central to Marine/Central to Marine

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Looking at bustimes.org it would appear some of Lothian’s upcoming changes have been applied to its feed, which I believe comes from Traveline.

The X33 looks like it’s being rerouted via Dalkeith Heights and will likely no longer serve Old Edinburgh Road, Buccleuch Street, South Street, Newmills Road or most of Lauder Road. Instead it will likely run past the Country Park, head along to Thornybank Roundabout and then continue along Salters Road and Cowden Road and then down into Easthouses. Same in reverse I’d expect. If this is correct this change makes sense and gives Dalkeith Heights a link to the city again.

For those wondering what the variation is to the 140 is, there’s a new 141. This route unsurprisingly is pretty similar to the 140 but it will serve Easter Bush rather than Roslin. It doesn’t appear to be doing anything else. I’d imagine this is a peak extra route (so not like the 47 where it becomes a 47B for the peak) that will only run maybe once or twice in each direction. It could run all day, but I don’t think it will. Nice to see the number back after a very long time though.

And the 12, now that’s interesting. We all got this completely wrong! It appears to be going via Morrison Link, Western Approach Road, Lothian Road, Earl Grey Street and Lauriston Place in both directions. I have to say I’m not really sure what the point of this is, but I’m sure time will tell. The route either side of this looks like it’s the same as the current 12 and 42.

There’s almost certainly more so I’ll keep looking through and I’ll see what I can find.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Looking at bustimes.org it would appear some of Lothian’s upcoming changes have been applied to its feed, which I believe comes from Traveline.

The X33 looks like it’s being rerouted via Dalkeith Heights and will likely no longer serve Old Edinburgh Road, Buccleuch Street, South Street, Newmills Road or most of Lauder Road. Instead it will likely run past the Country Park, head along to Thornybank Roundabout and then continue along Salters Road and Cowden Road and then down into Easthouses. Same in reverse I’d expect. If this is correct this change makes sense and gives Dalkeith Heights a link to the city again.

For those wondering what the variation is to the 140 is, there’s a new 141. This route unsurprisingly is pretty similar to the 140 but it will serve Easter Bush rather than Roslin. It doesn’t appear to be doing anything else. I’d imagine this is a peak extra route (so not like the 47 where it becomes a 47B for the peak) that will only run maybe once or twice in each direction. It could run all day, but I don’t think it will. Nice to see the number back after a very long time though.

And the 12, now that’s interesting. We all got this completely wrong! It appears to be going via Morrison Link, Western Approach Road, Lothian Road, Earl Grey Street and Lauriston Place in both directions. I have to say I’m not really sure what the point of this is, but I’m sure time will tell. The route either side of this looks like it’s the same as the current 12 and 42.

There’s almost certainly more so I’ll keep looking through and I’ll see what I can find.

Thanks for those, yeah the changes to the 12/42 do seem weird. Hopefully it won't be long before Lothian make their official announcement.

 

[Busman757]

Looking at bustimes.org it would appear some of Lothian’s upcoming changes have been applied to its feed, which I believe comes from Traveline.

The X33 looks like it’s being rerouted via Dalkeith Heights and will likely no longer serve Old Edinburgh Road, Buccleuch Street, South Street, Newmills Road or most of Lauder Road. Instead it will likely run past the Country Park, head along to Thornybank Roundabout and then continue along Salters Road and Cowden Road and then down into Easthouses. Same in reverse I’d expect. If this is correct this change makes sense and gives Dalkeith Heights a link to the city again.

For those wondering what the variation is to the 140 is, there’s a new 141. This route unsurprisingly is pretty similar to the 140 but it will serve Easter Bush rather than Roslin. It doesn’t appear to be doing anything else. I’d imagine this is a peak extra route (so not like the 47 where it becomes a 47B for the peak) that will only run maybe once or twice in each direction. It could run all day, but I don’t think it will. Nice to see the number back after a very long time though.

And the 12, now that’s interesting. We all got this completely wrong! It appears to be going via Morrison Link, Western Approach Road, Lothian Road, Earl Grey Street and Lauriston Place in both directions. I have to say I’m not really sure what the point of this is, but I’m sure time will tell. The route either side of this looks like it’s the same as the current 12 and 42.

There’s almost certainly more so I’ll keep looking through and I’ll see what I can find.

It actually looks like the 12 is going to Ocean Terminal.

Gyle-Haymarket(as current 12)-Morrison Link-Exchange-Lothian Rd-Lauriston Pl-Potterrow-(Current 42 route to Portobello High St-Wakefield Av-Lochend-Leith Links-Duke Street-North Junc St