Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[OmniCity999]

I’m just wondering but I have thought about 826-828 going to marine with no depot codes and they could be getting withdrawn, I have a few reasons for wondering this.
They are the oldest double deckers in the fleet.
They have no depot codes
Marine is usually where buses go for their last months then get withdrawn.(this isn’t with all buses)

As far as i understand, we are in a position where every bus we have is needed.

They will be sticking around for the time being.

Depot odes are being removed company wide as its totally unessential.

While it is true old stock heads to Marine immediately before sale, it is usually the case that it is removed from service before so and stored there.

We are currently conducting a fleet wide shuffle and clear up with regards to appearance, so expect a few interesting changes.

In my opinion it would be great if they kept the website as is but have the separate ones for LCB and ECB aswell so lothianbuses.com being the hub and lothiancountry.co.uk and eastcoastbuses.co.uk being easier more localised for people travelling in WL and/or EL only.

But correct me if im wrong but theur separate websites cost mor money i believe.

I know East Coast Buses will have one as they posted on Twitter earlier about it, but like everything this year it will probably all be in the one booklet rather than something separate!

once this pandemic is over I can’t imagine LCB and ECB will be going back to their own separate websites to seperate them from the Lothian brand, i think it works better having all the services in one source, makes it feel more like a wide network that way!

The company is moving towards a fully integrated service. With talk of fare changes, branding changes and fleet movements, as mentioned above. Expect many changes.

New buses are due late next year, by that point we should be in a more long term fleet, branding and fares structure.

 

[Trident638]

Any more Evora's due next year on top of the 30 going out soon?

 

[OmniCity999]

Any more Evora's due next year on top of the 30 going out soon?

No, this is currently the only batch we're taking on.

The ADL order for next year is for deckers.

 

[Trident638]

No, this is currently the only batch we're taking on.

The ADL order for next year is for deckers.

Thanks for clarifying. I'd thought it was 30 this year with another 30 in the new year.

All B5's next year? Heard there weren't going to be any more XLB's.

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks for clarifying. I'd thought it was 30 this year with another 30 in the new year.

All B5's next year? Heard there weren't going to be any more XLB's.

I'm led to believe it's only eight B5 variants.

No, this is currently the only batch we're taking on.

The ADL order for next year is for deckers.

 

[Graham Alexand]

No, this is currently the only batch we're taking on.

The ADL order for next year is for deckers.

What buses will these replace?

 

[ScotRail158725]

What buses will these replace?

98 new buses coming in
the oldest deckers are a batch of 100 Gemini 1
Put 2 & 2 together and theres your answer

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Lothian's 2020 Festive Timetables - Lothian Buses

* In light of the Scottish Government’s announcement on Saturday (19 December) that mainland Scotland will enter into Level 4 protection from Boxing Day (26 December), there will be some changes to our festive timetables. Please note that our Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services will go...

www.lothianbuses.com

official Christmas timetables are here!

 

[Graham Alexand]

Lothian's 2020 Festive Timetables - Lothian Buses

* In light of the Scottish Government’s announcement on Saturday (19 December) that mainland Scotland will enter into Level 4 protection from Boxing Day (26 December), there will be some changes to our festive timetables. Please note that our Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services will go...

www.lothianbuses.com

official Christmas timetables are here!

Do you know if there will be physical copies of them?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Do you know if there will be physical copies of them?

i have doubts but who knows, maybe best check the local travel shop just to be sure

 

[stan68]

98 new buses coming in
the oldest deckers are a batch of 100 Gemini 1
Put 2 & 2 together and theres your answer

Will these still be triple axle or will they be like the Stagecoach Enviro 400 MMCs with B5LH chassis that are used in Fife and Tayside?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Find it interesting that the 104/6 are also serving the Western General/West Granton area during this festive time, and the 34 to Newhaven and the 7 back to Western Harbour, the 44 is also been extended to Brunstane on Christmas day so no longer connecting with the 34 in town

Also the 30 is extended from Fort Kinnaird, and the Airlink is not running for the first time on Christmas Day in god knows when!!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Find it interesting that the 104/6 are also serving the Western General/West Granton area during this festive time, and the 34 to Newhaven and the 7 back to Western Harbour, the 44 is also been extended to Brunstane on Christmas day so no longer connecting with the 34 in town

Also the 30 is extended from Fort Kinnaird, and the Airlink is not running for the first time on Christmas Day in god knows when!!

34 extension was a strange one for me, don’t really get its purpose unless.

104 and 113 will each be hourly so it’s to provide a decent enough service when you combine the 37 etc.

Airlink only started running on Christmas Day about 2013/14 I think it was, the 22 used to serve the Airport on Christmas Day prior to that.

 

[OmniCity999]

Will these still be triple axle or will they be like the Stagecoach Enviro 400 MMCs with B5LH chassis that are used in Fife and Tayside?

As I've stated a few comments up: im led to believe only around 8 of the order is for B5 Variants. The rest is for B8L's. Which by their very nature, are three axle vehicles.

I'm not in a position to say what B5 variant this will be. It may be B5TL's, it may be B5LH's. It may be a new variant. You will need to wait and see. We will not see a three axle B5 variant, though.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

34 extension was a strange one for me, don’t really get its purpose unless.

104 and 113 will each be hourly so it’s to provide a decent enough service when you combine the 37 etc.

Airlink only started running on Christmas Day about 2013/14 I think it was, the 22 used to serve the Airport on Christmas Day prior to that.

No clue but maybe it might be helpful as as far as I’m aware Ocean Terminal won’t be busy to diverting one service down the road a few minutes won’t kill anyone.

 

[stan68]

As I've stated a few comments up: im led to believe only around 8 of the order is for B5 Variants. The rest is for B8L's. Which by their very nature, are three axle vehicles.

I'm not in a position to say what B5 variant this will be. It may be B5TL's, it may be B5LH's. It may be a new variant. You will need to wait and see. We will not see a three axle B5 variant, though.

Thanks for the info - that's gonna be a lot of B8Ls. I'm not sure the extra capacity is necessary without covid and the need for social distancing. Earlier in the year XLBs were used on the 29 (used to be single deck) and routes that normally have a low frequency compared to that of the 16 and 11 where the XLBs are necessary, will they replace the older B9TLs do you think?

 

[OmniCity999]

Thanks for the info - that's gonna be a lot of B8Ls. I'm not sure the extra capacity is necessary without covid and the need for social distancing. Earlier in the year XLBs were used on the 29 (used to be single deck) and routes that normally have a low frequency compared to that of the 16 and 11 where the XLBs are necessary, will they replace the older B9TLs do you think?

Surely the extra space is better for social distancing, therfore a higher capacity?

Even after we've got rid of Covid, people will still want to be cautious, and eventually customer numbers will pick up.

Having high capacity on routes is exactly what potential customers want to see. As well as a warm and welcoming space, which these vehicles have been designed to have.

The order was already placed and the chassis were already in build so it is going ahead. Again, I'm not clarifying or denying anything, mainly because I'm not allowed to. But it has been stated through management that a larger order for B8L's is anticipated.

90 B8L's will allow between three or four routes to be converted to high capacity. The thought is this is to include the 25, 26 and 31. With any remaining filling any gaps where needed.

The order of 98 vehicles is to replace between 100-120 of the early B9TL's (826 upward) and potentially including the Enviro400's that used to be hybrids.

This will allow general fleet renewal and change of depot for a number of vehicles. East Coast is to get up to eight B5 Varients, this will replace the Lothian Motorcoaches branded dockers, which will in turn be cascaded into the main fleet owing to their refurb, as opposed to removed from service. Who knows? Their refurb might fetch them a good price and they might be sold.

It may also be the case that some B8L's on the order are replaced by B5 varients, due to cost, but we'll need to wait and see.

Any information i have and am allowed to share i do, so any updates will reposted as and when

 

[computerSaysNo]

will they replace the older B9TLs do you think?

There are about* 100 vehicles expected (about 90xXLB and about 10xB5). At present there are about 90 vehicles with a 2007/2008 registration which are with City (826-925, minus 841-850), and 10 vehicles which should have a 2007 registration with East Coast or Lothian Country (841-850); so it looks like the XLBs will replace all the older B9s (Gemini (1)) from City, and the B5s will replace the B9s from ECB/LCY.

*"About" = I don't work for the Company, I'm only going by what I can see on the Lothian Vehicle Finder, and I'm rounding all the quantities of vehicles.

Edit: just beaten to it by OmniCity999!

 

[stan68]

Surely the extra space is better for social distancing, therfore a higher capacity?

Even after we've got rid of Covid, people will still want to be cautious, and eventually customer numbers will pick up.

Having high capacity on routes is exactly what potential customers want to see. As well as a warm and welcoming space, which these vehicles have been designed to have.

The order was already placed and the chassis were already in build so it is going ahead. Again, I'm not clarifying or denying anything, mainly because I'm not allowed to. But it has been stated through management that a larger order for B8L's is anticipated.

90 B8L's will allow between three or four routes to be converted to high capacity. The thought is this is to include the 25, 26 and 31. With any remaining filling any gaps where needed.

The order of 98 vehicles is to replace between 100-120 of the early B9TL's (826 upward) and potentially including the Enviro400's that used to be hybrids.

This will allow general fleet renewal and change of depot for a number of vehicles. East Coast is to get up to eight B5 Varients, this will replace the Lothian Motorcoaches branded dockers, which will in turn be cascaded into the main fleet owing to their refurb, as opposed to removed from service. Who knows? Their refurb might fetch them a good price and they might be sold.

It may also be the case that some B8L's on the order are replaced by B5 varients, due to cost, but we'll need to wait and see.

Any information i have and am allowed to share i do, so any updates will reposted as and when

Yes, the B8Ls have USB ports, mood lighting and comfy seats so I think if they spread this service type over the rest of the network it will be very effective in getting people out of cars and into buses. The 25 will probably be a good route to choose because of the university students. I was also wondering if the B5s going to ECB will have mood lighting and the same specs as the Lothiancity XLBs (except the rear doors)? Grateful for the information as usual!

There are about* 100 vehicles expected (about 90xXLB and about 10xB5). At present there are about 90 vehicles with a 2007/2008 registration which are with City (826-925, minus 841-850), and 10 vehicles which should have a 2007 registration with East Coast or Lothian Country (841-850); so it looks like the XLBs will replace all the older B9s (Gemini (1)) from City, and the B5s will replace the B9s from ECB/LCY.

*"About" = I don't work for the Company, I'm only going by what I can see on the Lothian Vehicle Finder, and I'm rounding all the quantities of vehicles.

Edit: just beaten to it by OmniCity999!

Thanks for the info!

 

[Graham Alexand]

Will these Fleet movements effect LCB at all?

 

[OmniCity999]

Yes, the B8Ls have USB ports, mood lighting and comfy seats so I think if they spread this service type over the rest of the network it will be very effective in getting people out of cars and into buses. The 25 will probably be a good route to choose because of the university students. I was also wondering if the B5s going to ECB will have mood lighting and the same specs as the Lothiancity XLBs (except the rear doors)? Grateful for the information as usual!

Thanks for the info!

The interior spec that is used on every bus purchased between 2017-now is the fleet standard in regards to lighting, seat covering material, flooring and interior colours. As such, the purchases between 2017 and now are pretty similar to each other, varying only between brands, but being designed to the same aesthetic. They are all designed relatively similarly, to create that warmth. This is what will be used from now until any serious changes. It is commonly called Fleet of the Future.

Lothian Buses
East Coast Buses
Lothian Country Buses
Edinburgh Bus Tours
Lothian Motorcoaches

All have there own version of Fleet of the Future. This is installed on all new and highly refurbished vehicles from 2017 onwards, 2016 onwards for Edinburgh Bus Tours.

Will these Fleet movements effect LCB at all?

Probably.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Will these Fleet movements effect LCB at all?

How are we meant to know? these buses are still months away from arriving

 

[computerSaysNo]

The 25 will probably be a good route to choose because of the university students.

I'm not sure how many are actually on campus at the moment, I'm at a different university but 100% of my classes are online-only (and look to be next semester as well) and none of the societies are allowed to meet on campus either.
That said it will be a long term investment and I'm sure the students will return at some point.

Yes, the B8Ls have USB ports, mood lighting and comfy seats

I hope the new ECB ones have the same actual seats to the 2019 XLBs (i.e. same seat, different colour); the 2018 ECB B5s have different seats, which look more comfortable, but are actually hard as concrete!

 

[TheEastCoaster]

So yeah the Christmas network looks better then I expected..

 

[OmniCity999]

I'm not sure how many are actually on campus at the moment, I'm at a different university but 100% of my classes are online-only (and look to be next semester as well) and none of the societies are allowed to meet on campus either.
That said it will be a long term investment and I'm sure the students will return at some point.

I hope the new ECB ones have the same actual seats to the 2019 XLBs (i.e. same seat, different colour); the 2018 ECB B5s have different seats, which look more comfortable, but are actually hard as concrete!

The seats on 20001-20008 were supposed to be the same as those used on 10051-10065, but having seen the cost, it was decided against. The ones that were instead installed were done so without actually viewing them or trialling them. They were seen as being a fair alternative owing to their coach style. The idea being that 10051-10065 & 20001-20008 are used on long distance routes where the clientele tend to spend more time on board, so a coach style seat would be preferred. I think this was done correctly on 10051-10065, but not on 20001-20008.

The high back seats in recent deliveries are the preferred choice from now on.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The seats on 20001-20008 were supposed to be the same as those used on 10051-10065, but having seen the cost, it was decided against. The ones that were instead installed were done so without actually viewing them or trialling them. They were seen as being a fair alternative owing to their coach style. The idea being that 10051-10065 & 20001-20008 are used on long distance routes where the clientele tend to spend more time on board, so a coach style seat would be preferred. I think this was done correctly on 10051-10065, but not on 20001-20008.

The high back seats in recent deliveries are the preferred choice from now on.

Ahhh okay, that makes sense.
I can't remember if they actually are or not, but I hope the upstairs windows on the new B5s will be bigger than the ones on the 2018 ones, the tiny windows are not ideal when you're getting the bus to go for a walk/see the countryside (especially in combination with the high back seats), the 2010 B9s are much better.

I'm surprised that the 124 is the main route to North Berwick to be honest, given it takes so long getting through Portobello and then Musselburgh as well. In my mind it would be better running the (daytime) main service as X5 (or 105) running Edinburgh to Wallyford same as the 104 (via Jewel and A1), then the present route from there to North Berwick, with the route through Musselburgh being the slow once-an-hour one (and even then, possibly Musselburgh to Edinburgh being same route as the 113 to try and speed it up, or terminating short of Edinburgh e.g. at Fort Kinnard).
That said, I don't know how many only use the current service from Musselburgh to Longniddry etc.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Ahhh okay, that makes sense.
I can't remember if they actually are or not, but I hope the upstairs windows on the new B5s will be bigger than the ones on the 2018 ones, the tiny windows are not ideal when you're getting the bus to go for a walk/see the countryside (especially in combination with the high back seats), the 2010 B9s are much better.

I'm surprised that the 124 is the main route to North Berwick to be honest, given it takes so long getting through Portobello and then Musselburgh as well. In my mind it would be better running the (daytime) main service as X5 (or 105) running Edinburgh to Wallyford same as the 104 (via Jewel and A1), then the present route from there to North Berwick, with the route through Musselburgh being the slow once-an-hour one (and even then, possibly Musselburgh to Edinburgh being same route as the 113 to try and speed it up, or terminating short of Edinburgh e.g. at Fort Kinnard).
That said, I don't know how many only use the current service from Musselburgh to Longniddry etc.

The reason the X5 runs hourly is because the train serves Longniddry and North Berwick. 124 offers what the majority of passengers want and the X5 offers a faster journey than the 124 and is slightly cheaper than the train for those that want that. Prestonpans is exactly the same which is why the X5 doesn’t serve there.

104/X7 serve Haddington which doesn’t have a rail service and is a pretty large town. Dunbar has the half hourly service so it can connect Haddington with East Linton and Dunbar, the number of journeys from Dunbar to the city centre isn’t particularly high. 104 also serves Tranent/Macmerry too.

The only one I could argue maybe isn’t needed is the 104 serving Wallyford but I’m sure someone local to that area will have a better knowledge of it. It’s always been fairly busy at the Fa’side end so it’s busy enough.

Remember as well the 124 is doing a job the old 15/X15 used to do too.

 

[OmniCity999]

Ahhh okay, that makes sense.
I can't remember if they actually are or not, but I hope the upstairs windows on the new B5s will be bigger than the ones on the 2018 ones, the tiny windows are not ideal when you're getting the bus to go for a walk/see the countryside (especially in combination with the high back seats), the 2010 B9s are much better.

20001-20008 are made by Wright, the new stock due next year is made by ADL, who's vehicle design is entirely different - they will have the same style of bodywork as the XLB's. The windows on ADL models are bigger, but overall the the Wright offering brings in more light. The issue with 20001-20008 regarding "sight lines" shall we say? is the highback seats, which ultimately in any vehicle is going to provide less light and bad sight lines!

Wright dont offer a "heavy duty" product for the time being - that is to say, one bodied on Volvo. So any new decker orders are to be bought through ADL.

The reason the X5 runs hourly is because the train serves Longniddry and North Berwick. 124 offers what the majority of passengers want and the X5 offers a faster journey than the 124 and is slightly cheaper than the train for those that want that. Prestonpans is exactly the same which is why the X5 doesn’t serve there.

104/X7 serve Haddington which doesn’t have a rail service and is a pretty large town. Dunbar has the half hourly service so it can connect Haddington with East Linton and Dunbar, the number of journeys from Dunbar to the city centre isn’t particularly high. 104 also serves Tranent/Macmerry too.

The only one I could argue maybe isn’t needed is the 104 serving Wallyford but I’m sure someone local to that area will have a better knowledge of it. It’s always been fairly busy at the Fa’side end so it’s busy enough.

Remember as well the 124 is doing a job the old 15/X15 used to do too.

I think the idea is in the future, the 104 will go round the new road at Wallyford.

Before Covid, there was also talk of making all 124 journeys (except depot runs etc) X24 journeys and rerouting the X5 through Wallyford. The current X24 rush buses would have been converted into X5's. X5's hourly as is, with additional journeys for peak runs. Unfortunately, i believe this is now no longer the case.

There was also going to be a fully new service, but lets not get into that!

 

[computerSaysNo]

Before Covid, there was also talk of making all 124 journeys (except depot runs etc) X24 journeys and rerouting the X5 through Wallyford. The current X24 rush buses would have been converted into X5's.

That sounds like a good idea actually.

X5's hourly as is, with additional journeys for peak runs.

There are no additional peak services at the moment, it's hourly 0545-1645 to City and hourly 0700-1800 from City.

Unfortunately, i believe this is now no longer the case.

Which is this referring to? The restructuring of the routes? Or the additional peak X5s?

There was also going to be a fully new service, but lets not get into that!

Ooh, new service*!?
*Or is this referring to the council wanting to remove all buses from the city centre and replace them with a "free" city centre circular route? In which case the emojis would be ""

 

[OmniCity999]

That sounds like a good idea actually.

There are no additional peak services at the moment, it's hourly 0545-1645 to City and hourly 0700-1800 from City.

Which is this referring to? The restructuring of the routes? Or the additional peak X5s?

Ooh, new service*!?
*Or is this referring to the council wanting to remove all buses from the city centre and replace them with a "free" city centre circular route? In which case the emojis would be ""

My entire post was the plans before covid. Before covid was an issue.

Before Covid, there was also talk of making all 124 journeys (except depot runs etc) X24 journeys and rerouting the X5 through Wallyford. The current X24 rush buses would have been converted into X5's. X5's hourly as is, with additional journeys for peak runs. Unfortunately, i believe this is now no longer the case.

There was also going to be a fully new service, but lets not get into that!

They wanted to make the 124 the X24 and replace the current X24 with additional X5's as well as the current hourly X5 provision. Covid stopped all of this. They wanted more peak journeys before covid is the point im getting at.

A new East Coast service. Nothing to do with CEC wanting less buses in the city. But it doesn't matter, because its not happening for now.