Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bus9120UK]

I thought bus 2020 was euro 5 and above

Yes, it is..

Lets not start the "why are Gemini 1's being sold" argument though, please

 

[Lothianbus703]

I was just wondering as I forgot I don't want the Gemini 1s to be withdrawn but I understand why.

 

[90019]

A few of the old B7RLEs couldn't display 63 either, as well as the 04 plates at Marine not being able to display QMU etc for the 45.

When the 12 moved to Central back in 2012, setting the blinds on 131-135 to Ratho would put Outer Circle on the side screen, and putting Seafield on the front would show Eastern General on the side.

 

[scosutsut]

Yep, lots of B9TLs been upgraded to euro 6 too now. 1042 was off for it's upgrade today.

Thanks, I thought so, what with the earlier B7RLEs and all the B7TLs withdrawn, surprised they didn't even do a news article about it, big achievement for such a big fleet!

 

[Graham Alexand]

How many buses have been upgraded to Euro 6 now?

 

[OmniCity999]

How many buses have been upgraded to Euro 6 now?

There isnt a publicly running list. Once conversions are complete, im sure there'll be some sort of notice, weather publicly or on here.

Changes are made daily, eventually all B9's that are staying will be done.

if youre that interested, an FOI request can be made.

 

[Graham Alexand]

There isnt a publicly running list. Once conversions are complete, im sure there'll be some sort of notice, weather publicly or on here.

Changes are made daily, eventually all B9's that are staying will be done.

Okay, thank you .

 

[Lothianbus703]

For anybody wondering, I'm pretty sure the B9s that are staying are all Gemini 2s (I have no evidence of this just a wild guess).

 

[cammyeaston]

For anybody wondering, I'm pretty sure the B9s that are staying are all Gemini 2s (I have no evidence of this just a wild guess).

Whilst your enthusiasm is appreciated, can we save the "wild guess" conjecture please? You can't say that you're pretty sure of something and then a moment later say you have no evidence and that you're purely guessing. Talking and discussing what may or may not happen with the fleet is grand but please don't make baseless claims without evidence to back it up.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Sorry, I was tired

 

[CN04NRJ]

For anybody wondering, I'm pretty sure the B9s that are staying are all Gemini 2s (I have no evidence of this just a wild guess).

It's already been said that the Motorcoaches B9s on loan to ECB are staying and the new order has been reduced. 50 (I think?) buses doesn't replace 100.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It's already been said that the Motorcoaches B9s on loan to ECB are staying and the new order has been reduced. 50 (I think?) buses doesn't replace 100.

I wonder if we’ll see very many departures, if social distancing ends this year (which may or may not happen) then that’s a green light to bringing back near normal frequencies, full network etc.

If that was to happen I’d probably see this new order mainly as replacements for the B7TL’s with maybe a small number of the early B9TL’s going. Would be handy if anyone knows the rough number of B7TL’s that were left last March. I thought it was around 50-60.

Will be interesting to see what happens in any case.

 

[Graham Alexand]

It's already been said that the Motorcoaches B9s on loan to ECB are staying and the new order has been reduced. 50 (I think?) buses doesn't replace 100.

So when the Motorcoaches B9TL's were with Lothian Country they were on loan?

 

[Bus9120UK]

So when the Motorcoaches B9TL's were with Lothian Country they were on loan?

I think they all moved to LCB for quite some time but then most of them moved to ECB once the B7TL's were sold

 

[Graham Alexand]

I think they all moved to LCB but then most moved to ECB (correct if wrong)

Yeah, 844-850 were the only Motorcoaches B9TL's in normal public service pre lockdown I think this was back in September 2019 then 841, 842 and 843 were introduced into normal public service in September 2020 (or something like that) but were painted in LCB colours so they're here long term.

All the ones in Motorcoaches colours were transferred to ECB and 850 was on a very short time loan with LB working service 48 between Fort Kinnaird and Gorebridge.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Yeah, 844-850 were the only Motorcoaches B9TL's in normal public service pre lockdown I think this was back in September 2019 then 841, 842 and 843 were introduced into normal public service in September 2020 (or something like that) but were painted in LCB colours so they're here long term.

All the ones in Motorcoaches colours were transferred to ECB and 850 was on a very short time loan with LB working service 48 between Fort Kinnaird and Gorebridge.

841-843 had been getting used on the University of Edinburgh shuttle bus prior to transfer to Lothiancountry. I used to see them heading out every morning on my way to college. Worth noting that these were repainted into Lothiancountry livery before the first lockdown started so it was clearly planned. When that service comes back (if it does - which seems likely) it will possibly go back to the previous arrangement that saw Marine run it (with Tridents then B7TL’s at the time).

As far as I know 844-850 were surplus at Lothian Motorcoaches (having been hardly used) so they were moved out to Lothiancountry instead.

I think it’s probable that the original plan was for 844-850 to stay at Lothiancountry (repainted as well) but as with many things the pandemic changed that. The transfer to EastCoastbuses made sense (like for like in numbers replacing 20794-20800). 850 was probably moved out briefly due to 942’s return, going back after an increase in PVR (Peak Vehicle Requirement). As far as I know 20794 was only moved to EastCoastbuses as cover to 942, which would explain why it was in the later livery and not the ‘panel’ version - which had been phased out by then.

It’s impossible to say with certainty what will happen with 844-850 once this new batch arrives but personally I don’t think they’ll be repainted again.

 

[CN04NRJ]

841-843 had been getting used on the University of Edinburgh shuttle bus prior to transfer to Lothiancountry. I used to see them heading out every morning on my way to college. Worth noting that these were repainted into Lothiancountry livery before the first lockdown started so it was clearly planned. When that service comes back (if it does - which seems likely) it will possibly go back to the previous arrangement that saw Marine run it (with Tridents then B7TL’s at the time).

As far as I know 844-850 were surplus at Lothian Motorcoaches (having been hardly used) so they were moved out to Lothiancountry instead.

I think it’s probable that the original plan was for 844-850 to stay at Lothiancountry (repainted as well) but as with many things the pandemic changed that. The transfer to EastCoastbuses made sense (like for like in numbers replacing 20794-20800). 850 was probably moved out briefly due to 942’s return, going back after an increase in PVR (Peak Vehicle Requirement). As far as I know 20794 was only moved to EastCoastbuses as cover to 942, which would explain why it was in the later livery and not the ‘panel’ version - which had been phased out by then.

It’s impossible to say with certainty what will happen with 844-850 once this new batch arrives but personally I don’t think they’ll be repainted again.

I'm sure @OmniCity999 said at some point they may potentially make it back to the main fleet owing to their extensive refurbishment?

 

[Graham Alexand]

841-843 had been getting used on the University of Edinburgh shuttle bus prior to transfer to Lothiancountry. I used to see them heading out every morning on my way to college. Worth noting that these were repainted into Lothiancountry livery before the first lockdown started so it was clearly planned. When that service comes back (if it does - which seems likely) it will possibly go back to the previous arrangement that saw Marine run it (with Tridents then B7TL’s at the time).

As far as I know 844-850 were surplus at Lothian Motorcoaches (having been hardly used) so they were moved out to Lothiancountry instead.

I think it’s probable that the original plan was for 844-850 to stay at Lothiancountry (repainted as well) but as with many things the pandemic changed that. The transfer to EastCoastbuses made sense (like for like in numbers replacing 20794-20800). 850 was probably moved out briefly due to 942’s return, going back after an increase in PVR (Peak Vehicle Requirement). As far as I know 20794 was only moved to EastCoastbuses as cover to 942, which would explain why it was in the later livery and not the ‘panel’ version - which had been phased out by then.

It’s impossible to say with certainty what will happen with 844-850 once this new batch arrives but personally I don’t think they’ll be repainted again.

I forgot about that when 841-843 were getting used.

Yeah, I understand them not getting used alot. In my opinion large double deck capacity hires should use normal City, Country or Coast buses.

I think it is likely for the Motorcoaches B9TL's to be transferred back to Lothian Country when the 275 is extended back to The Gyle, the 276 is renumbered back to X17 and returns to Edinburgh and (this is a long shot) if the 280 returns to a normal 20min frequency (I relise that the 280 and 281 combine to create a 15 minute frequency between Armadale and Livingston but I'm meaning the Blackridge and Westrigg portion of the route).

 

[CN04NRJ]

I forgot about that when 841-843 were getting used.

Yeah, I understand them not getting used alot. In my opinion large double deck capacity hires should use normal City, Country or Coast buses.

I think it is likely for the Motorcoaches B9TL's to be transferred back to Lothian Country when the 275 is extended back to The Gyle, the 276 is renumbered back to X17 and returns to Edinburgh and (this is a long shot) if the 280 returns to a normal 20min frequency (I relise that the 280 and 281 combine to create a 15 minute frequency between Armadale and Livingston but I'm meaning the Blackridge and Westrigg portion of the route).

Don't forget that if being used on a private hire they'll have to have tachographs fitted and drivers with tacho cards - of which there aren't many. I let mine lapse a few years ago personally.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I think it is likely for the Motorcoaches B9TL's to be transferred back to Lothian Country when the 275 is extended back to The Gyle, the 276 is renumbered back to X17 and returns to Edinburgh and (this is a long shot) if the 280 returns to a normal 20min frequency (I relise that the 280 and 281 combine to create a 15 minute frequency between Armadale and Livingston but I'm meaning the Blackridge and Westrigg portion of the route).

Who said the 275 is getting extended, X17 returning and 280 getting its freequency increased again? Seems more than probable that the current LC network is here to stay for a while

I wonder if we’ll see very many departures, if social distancing ends this year (which may or may not happen) then that’s a green light to bringing back near normal frequencies, full network etc.

If that was to happen I’d probably see this new order mainly as replacements for the B7TL’s with maybe a small number of the early B9TL’s going. Would be handy if anyone knows the rough number of B7TL’s that were left last March. I thought it was around 50-60.

With the amount of buses that sit in the depot during the day even with 831-840, 851-873 off the road the 30 B7TLs that went with covid certainly wont need direct replacements, especially considering some PVRs wont got back to pre covid

 

[Graham Alexand]

Who said the 275 is getting extended, X17 returning and 280 getting its freequency increased again? Seems more than probable that the current LC network is here to stay for a while

Like I said for the 280 it was a long shot.

In regards to services 275 and 276(X17), First of all service 275.

When there was supposed to be a service change on Sunday 29th March 2020 effecting all Lothian Country services, 275 was obviously one of them.

The changes included:
Extension to Bathgate which 99.9% replaced service 287.
Withdrawal of non-peak bus service to Edinburgh Park so most Journeys (would have) terminated at The Gyle Centre.

That would've probably been the service today if Covid-19 wasn't a thing.


Secondly service 276 (X17).
For the sake of this I will be referring to this service as X17.
The changes included:
Withdrawal of the portion of the route between Loganlea and Fauldhouse.
Peak times would serve RBS Gogarburn.

When the X17 was reintroduced it was rerouted between Craigshill and Uphall via Pumpherston (Houstoun Industrial Estate) and Uphall Station but only went as far as Broxburn.
Im pretty sure it was renumbered to 276 is because it had turned into a West Lothian local service (not serving Edinburgh City Centre).

So essentially what I'm saying is this current network is that it's a Covid-19 temporary variation service.

Or another way of putting it...
Currently it's an essential bus network which is running

 

[GusB]

This is all pie-in-the-sky speculation. The only people who are likely to know what's going to happen with these services long-term are those who sit in an office and plan them, and even then they're not really going to have a full picture of what will happen in the future while Covid restrictions remain in place. Some things may go back to the way they were, while others may not. Wait and see!

 

[CN04NRJ]

This is all pie-in-the-sky speculation. The only people who are likely to know what's going to happen with these services long-term are those who sit in an office and plan them, and even then they're not really going to have a full picture of what will happen in the future while Covid restrictions remain in place. Some things may go back to the way they were, while others may not. Wait and see!

Completely agree, might as well consult our collective crystal ball as the Scottish government hasn't set any firm dates unlike England so no Scottish bus company can plan that far ahead yet.

 

[ScotRail158725]

So essentially what I'm saying is this current network is that it's a Covid-19 temporary variation service.

But as is said above how do you know that as only company higher ups and route planners will know what the future changes will entail?

 

[DunsBus]

But as is said above how do you know that as only company higher ups and route planners will know what the future changes will entail?

For what it's worth, I think it's very unlikely that we'll return to a full pre-Covid service level, and the service changes which were planned for around this time last year are as good as dead and buried. What we'll probably get once we emerge from lockdown (whenever that is!) is something akin to what's currently being provided, with a few tweaks to reflect the "new normal".

 

[buslad1988]

For what it's worth, I think it's very unlikely that we'll return to a full pre-Covid service level, and the service changes which were planned for around this time last year are as good as dead and buried. What we'll probably get once we emerge from lockdown (whenever that is!) is something akin to what's currently being provided, with a few tweaks to reflect the "new normal".

Indeed. For many operators (Lothian included) it’s accepted there will be no return to the old normal and it’ll be a case of re-building frequency levels organically as and where required.

It’s already widely known many office staff will continue to work from home. There’s limited tourism, retail/hospitality jobs have been hit too. Universities with next to no students on campus. Only positive is the new St James Quarter opening soon.

The network this time last year is effectively gone. The idea that they’ll be a date where the previous routes/timetables just get picked up and carry on is unrealistic.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Indeed. For many operators (Lothian included) it’s accepted there will be no return to the old normal and it’ll be a case of re-building frequency levels organically as and where required.

It’s already widely known many office staff will continue to work from home. There’s limited tourism, retail/hospitality jobs have been hit too. Universities with next to no students on campus. Only positive is the new St James Quarter opening soon.

The network this time last year is effectively gone. The idea that they’ll be a date where the previous routes/timetables just get picked up and carry on is unrealistic.

It's a massive case of we'll just have to wait and see. Nobody knows what impact the full lifting of restrictions will have - best case scenario this year I think is domestic tourism returning alot stronger this summer and office staff returning to the workplace in much larger numbers. Don't want to stray too far off topic with that though as there's a whole forum section for covid. Personally I've almost forgotten what normal life is like and I think it'll take a good while to adjust to whatever there is in store for us.

We've yet to see if funding for bus operators will be extended past April and if so, how generous it will be. That'll be a big concern for every operator at the moment.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The one change that was supposed to happen in March 2020 was buses such as 34 going via Waterloo Place, yet it's still going via London Road.

 

[DunsBus]

The one change that was supposed to happen in March 2020 was buses such as 34 going via Waterloo Place, yet it's still going via London Road.

Again, that and the all the other planned changes were binned when lockdown hit. As mentioned up thread, the pre-Covid network won't return and these changes will never see the light of day - the network has to be looked at as it is now and any subsequent changes will be made from there.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Again, that and the all the other planned changes were binned when lockdown hit. As mentioned up thread, the pre-Covid network won't return and these changes will never see the light of day - the network has to be looked at as it is now and any subsequent changes will be made from there.

Yes, I know that. I was just adding to the conversation of such.