Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Graeme Duncan]

Now that 175 has joined the training fleet I take it 171-174 will follow suit.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Now that 175 has joined the training fleet I take it 171-174 will follow suit.

174 is also being converted into a trainee at the current moment. 171/2 have been utilised as trainers with LCB for a while now (no conversion yet, though).

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

174 is also being converted into a trainee at the current moment. 171/2 have been utilised as trainers with LCB for a while now (no conversion yet, though).

Yes 171-172 have been used more as post practical test training (so more on the lines of route training etc).

173 I suspect is with 174-175 in being converted (frozen AVL).

 

[90019]

The B5LH and B5TL both have the same size engine though..?

Similar size, but some are lower powered - the Euro V examples use the D5F engine and only have 215hp, while the Euro VI ones use the same D5K as the B5TL which is rated at 240hp.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Same size, but some are lower powered - the Euro V examples use the D5F engine and only have 215hp, while the Euro VI ones use the same D5K as the B5TL which is rated at 240hp.

Oh.
Are they both the same physical engine, but with the D5F ones having their performance capped somehow?

 

[CN04NRJ]

Oh.
Are they both the same physical engine, but with the D5F ones having their performance capped somehow?

Also the euro 5 D5F in 1-10 and 591-4 is a 4.8 litre, while the euro 6 D5K is a 5.1 litre engine.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Oh.
Are they both the same physical engine, but with the D5F ones having their performance capped somehow?

No the D5F is a completely different engine to the D5K

 

[LothianBusesPh]

And what's the deal with 591-4? Surely they aren't all knackered?

Lots of issues with gearbox etc, I think it's time they were converted to a B5TL engine and also converted to Euro 6 with it, just like what they did with the Enviro 400's, although I'm not sure what they have whether it's a B5TL or another one? Sure they're B5TL's though [201 - 215.]

Although would it fit?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Just like what they did with the Enviro 400's, although I'm not sure what they have whether it's a B5TL or another one? Sure they're B5TL's though [201 - 215.]

Although would it fit?

I’m not sure exactly what engine they do have its definitely not a Volvo engine.

Lots of issues with gearbox etc, I think it's time they were converted to a B5TL engine and also converted to Euro 6 with it

At this point for them the best thing is probably scrap

 

[scosutsut]

Cummins 4 cylinder in the E400Hs from memory.

Seems a complete planning diaster if 591-4 got full repaints, and a transfer, only then to be declared as knackered? I've always felt Lothian to be on top of stuff like this.

I wouldn't like to guess their fate at this point without knowing full facts but scrapping them would seem an extreme reaction.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Lots of issues with gearbox etc, I think it's time they were converted to a B5TL engine and also converted to Euro 6 with it, just like what they did with the Enviro 400's, although I'm not sure what they have whether it's a B5TL or another one? Sure they're B5TL's though [201 - 215.]

Although would it fit?

They've got the same (Euro 5) Cummins ISBe 4.5 engines they has as new with the hybrid system, but coupled to 6 speed ZF Ecolife boxes. Essentially just a standard E400 with (I think?) different rear axle and tiny engine revving it's guts out. All were upgraded to Euro 6 though.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

They've got the same (Euro 5) Cummins ISBe 4.5 engines they has as new with the hybrid system, but coupled to 6 speed ZF Ecolife boxes. Essentially just a standard E400 with (I think?) different rear axle and tiny engine revving it's guts out. All were upgraded to Euro 6 though.

Now that I think about it, yes, obviously it's a Cummins ISBe, as almost every other engine is.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Noticed 1040 and 1047 in the yard at Longstone when i passed just now, any reason they’re there? I know Longstone used to do maintenance for LC but do they still do that?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Noticed 1040 and 1047 in the yard at Longstone when i passed just now, any reason they’re there? I know Longstone used to do maintenance for LC but do they still do that?

Possibly just maintenance for the vehicles as Seafield is getting used quite a lot at the moment, because I saw a few XLB's going past into Seafield, even though the trackers say otherwise?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Noticed 1040 and 1047 in the yard at Longstone when i passed just now, any reason they’re there? I know Longstone used to do maintenance for LC but do they still do that?

It's likely MOT related if anything. Many Lothiancountry & EastCoastbuses have all been going along for tests, such as 57, 943 & 1037 in the last few weeks.

Possibly just maintenance for the vehicles as Seafield is getting used quite a lot at the moment, because I saw a few XLB's going past into Seafield, even though the trackers say otherwise?

XLB's have been going into Seafield for the past few months every day (excluding weekends and bank holidays obviously) but it's unknown why. It's likely some sort of work that can't be completed elsewhere. I know the Airlink XLB's have gone in to lose their advert boxes on the rear of their seats. Seafield also deals with certain vehicle repairs dependant on the extent of the damage.

 

[overthewater]

Does Lothian have any plans for West Craig housing development? I doubt the 68 will get takin off as it's main goal was always to provide a link to the Gyle.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does Lothian have any plans for West Craig housing development? I doubt the 68 will get takin off as it's main goal was always to provide a link to the Gyle.

I would think so. Ideally any route should serve West Craigs, Turnhouse and (depending on how the design plays out) possibly even West Town - which is still an absolutely awful name. Whether it’ll be a new route - this seems the most likely option, or an extension of an existing one such as a Gyle Centre route or the 41 who knows?

As you say unless this route to West Craigs/Turnhouse was to serve both Turnhouse and the Gyle the 68 is here to stay.

While we’re talking about the 68 does anyone know when the tenders are up again? Would be good to see Lothian regain some of the contracts they no longer have, resources depending.

 

[Bus9120UK]

While we’re talking about the 68 does anyone know when the tenders are up again? Would be good to see Lothian regain some of the contracts they no longer have, resources depending.

Ive been reading into the documents, and if I've been reading correctly the current contracts are to last 2 years (and two extra optional 12 month extensions for each route). I'd therefore expect them to be up by some point in 2024. It could be this year or 2023 if the optional extensions are not taken (which I doubt).

If i've missed anything, or posted something inaccurate, please let me know.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I would think so. Ideally any route should serve West Craigs, Turnhouse and (depending on how the design plays out) possibly even West Town - which is still an absolutely awful name. Whether it’ll be a new route - this seems the most likely option, or an extension of an existing one such as a Gyle Centre route or the 41 who knows?

Is this the new housing near the existing tram line?
As much as I dislike the implementation of the trams in Edinburgh, I think it would be (/have been) very beneficial to plan in a tram line (as a loop off the existing line) directly serving as much of the new communities as possible.
I do like Lothian Buses as an operator but even if they were to use electric buses from the get-go serving the new houses, people still perceive trams as being more permanent, higher quality of service, etc, and so are more likely to use them over a bus.
I would even support the tram line running on-road for those sections as the roads around housing estates are generally quiet anyway so traffic holding up the tram isn't likely to be an issue.
It would be interesting having the tram in there from the very start, to see just how car-independent it's possible to be.

 

[Humberscot]

Saw one of the 571 - 578 batch of LC buses as 'Not in Service' threading its way through Winchburgh this afternoon from the Kirkliston direction to Broxburn. Was too far away to get the number. Made an unusual site in the midst of today's Winchburgh Gala - don't know whether it was connected with the Gala (didn't look like it), or something else....Route training?...or just taking a different route back to Livi?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Saw one of the 571 - 578 batch of LC buses as 'Not in Service' threading its way through Winchburgh this afternoon from the Kirkliston direction to Broxburn. Was too far away to get the number. Made an unusual site in the midst of today's Winchburgh Gala - don't know whether it was connected with the Gala (didn't look like it), or something else....Route training?...or just taking a different route back to Livi?

It was 577, looks to have come off the 43 and was heading back to Deans depot.

I’ve attached a link to the map of the route it took (via bustimes.org):

577 routing via Winchburgh

 

[Humberscot]

It was 577, looks to have come off the 43 and was heading back to Deans depot.

I’ve attached a link to the map of the route it took (via bustimes.org):

Thanks for that - is that a usual route for them now (never seen one there before). I thought they came straight through Kirkliston, straight over the Fourways crossroads in Kirkliston, under the M9 and then turned right at the traffic lights onto the A89.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Thanks for that - is that a usual route for them now (never seen one there before). I thought they came straight through Kirkliston, straight over the Fourways crossroads in Kirkliston, under the M9 and then turned right at the traffic lights onto the A89.

571 took the route you mention earlier, so it was a one off for 577. Interesting.

Map of 571

 

[Humberscot]

571 took the route you mention earlier, so it was a one off for 577. Interesting.

Map of 571

Yeah - an interesting one. Strange day to choose it as well, weaving its way through the Gala throng including a marching pipe band and countless fairies and Vikings! (Only I seemed to be getting excited about the sight of a Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini in Winchburgh!)

The single lane, hairpin bend stone bridge at the end of the village at the Broxburn end proved quite a challenge - the single deck First 600 often has difficulties there!

 

[CN04NRJ]

Noticed 1040 and 1047 in the yard at Longstone when i passed just now, any reason they’re there? I know Longstone used to do maintenance for LC but do they still do that?

MOTs, repairs, tyres... everything basically. Was even an ECB B8RLE there yesterday.

Now that I think about it, yes, obviously it's a Cummins ISBe, as almost every other engine is.

Shame they didn't stick proper 6 Cylinder engines in as fitted to normal E400s, probably wouldn't have been so problematic.

 

[scosutsut]

MOTs, repairs, tyres... everything basically. Was even an ECB B8RLE there yesterday.


Shame they didn't stick proper 6 Cylinder engines in as fitted to normal E400s, probably wouldn't have been so problematic.

Probably fitted the 4 cylinder to face weight/cost not thinking they'd end up with no batteries and underpowered.

 

[mb88]

Saw one of the 571 - 578 batch of LC buses as 'Not in Service' threading its way through Winchburgh this afternoon from the Kirkliston direction to Broxburn. Was too far away to get the number. Made an unusual site in the midst of today's Winchburgh Gala - don't know whether it was connected with the Gala (didn't look like it), or something else....Route training?...or just taking a different route back to Livi?

Bizarre way to go. I’ve never known anyone to go that way when running off service from Queensferry. Unless the driver was anticipating delays around Newbridge with the highland show being on?

 

[Humberscot]

True and there is some car parking for the Highland Show down the B800. accessed off Lochend Road near the Airport in Kirkliston

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Do you think that 584 will lose its wrap next month in favour of the standard livery?

I'm not sure although I'm excited to see the new Poppy Scotland bus!

214 and 208 are also not tracking.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Do you think that 584 will lose its wrap next month in favour of the standard livery?

I'm not sure although I'm excited to see the new Poppy Scotland bus!

214 and 208 are also not tracking.

It's possible but more likely to occur after the rest of 551-570 are painted first.

208 and 214 haven't been tracking for months, nothing new.