Low floor bus vs step entrance bus/coach: which is better for rural routes?

[SouthEastBuses]

I am curious to hear all of your thoughts of whether a low floor bus (with wheelchair ramp) or a step entrance bus/coach (with wheelchair lift) is better and more suited to rural routes.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Depends on the type of passengers I guess. If you have a high proportion or disabled people then the low floor bus would be better rather than spending all day getting the manual lift operating.

 

[GusB]

I am curious to hear all of your thoughts of whether a low floor bus (with wheelchair ramp) or a step entrance bus/coach (with wheelchair lift) is better and more suited to rural routes.

It very much depends. My own local route (Stagecoach Bluebird 32) is a rural run which goes from one village, through three others and ends up in town - 11 miles is the distance from end-to-end. Although I do personally prefer it when a coach turns up on the route, they're not popular with the older folks who have to negotiate steps and often tend to have shopping trolleys. They're not handy for the buggy brigade either. Low-floor buses are definitely preferable on this sort of route. I'm not aware of any regular disabled passenger who use the route, but on the odd occasion where a coach has turned up it hasn't had a wheelchair lift fitted.

If you consider a route like the 10 Aberdeen to Inverness - it's essentially a rural route too, but passengers will often be making longer journeys, and it's essential to have a comfier vehicle for these. As Andy notes in his previous post, it depends on how often the lift is likely to be used - it does add a significant amount of time to a journey.

 

[Busaholic]

Depends on the type of passengers I guess. If you have a high proportion or disabled people then the low floor bus would be better rather than spending all day getting the manual lift operating.

Most disabled bus passengers, myself for instance, are not wheelchair users anyway and I'd hate to see a return to some of the step entrance buses and coaches formerly used. Both the general population of the country and the proportion of regular bus users is increasing in age, which equates to less mobility.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Most disabled bus passengers, myself for instance, are not wheelchair users anyway and I'd hate to see a return to some of the step entrance buses and coaches formerly used. Both the general population of the country and the proportion of regular bus users is increasing in age, which equates to less mobility.

Quite, I'm sorry if I inadvertently implied that all disabled people needed the wheelchair facility.

 

[Busaholic]

Quite, I'm sorry if I inadvertently implied that all disabled people needed the wheelchair facility.

I didn't interpret it that way, so no need to apologise as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Your point is interesting though, and I think it backs up my point of really having the access facilities readily available for whoever may need them.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

My opinion is definitely the low floor bus. As others have noted, easier to navigate for the elderly, and quicker loading/unloading times when ramp is deployed. Although for routes like the 10 from Aberdeen to Inverness, the only issue can be lack of luggage space due to the nature of the 10 having many people doing longer journeys, potentially with luggage.

 

[talltim]

Is there any reason you can’t have low floor combined with coach type comfort?

 

[GusB]

Is there any reason you can’t have low floor combined with coach type comfort?

Well, yes. You can either fit a standard low-floor bus shell with comfier seats, or there's the Plaxton Panther LE which has a bit of low-floor and a bit of high-floor, but not suitable for a lot of routes due to its length. The latter has already been discussed on a number of threads!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am curious to hear all of your thoughts of whether a low floor bus (with wheelchair ramp) or a step entrance bus/coach (with wheelchair lift) is better and more suited to rural routes.

I can see a virtue to a low floor bus, namely that it's easy to get on and off. What would be the virtues of a step entrance bus/coach that might lead us to prefer it?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I can see a virtue to a low floor bus, namely that it's easy to get on and off. What would be the virtues of a step entrance bus/coach that might lead us to prefer it?

Yes absolutely. As stated in my previous post, unless absolutely necessary, low floor is the only way to go.

 

[Boo_]

Issues with coaches with lifts are they can`t be used at every bus stop.
As it need to be level and onto a wide pavement as you can`t drop the lift onto a pavement if you can`t get the lift down and the wheelchair off.
Unlike a bus with a ramp you can use on a hill or without a pavement as you can pull wide away from the stop and still unload onto the road as you can get someone off and on in a matter of secs. National express has a list of stops that they are not allowed to pick up wheelchairs due to this.

 

[richw]

Wheelchair lifts are next to useless on rural routes and need a fairly wide Pavement to be operated . Therefore the only answer to this question is low floor

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Carousel’s Chiltern Hundreds Route linking High Wycombe with Heathrow was relaunched at the start of the year with coaches displaced from the X90 Oxford - London service. Whilst undoubtedly more comfortable and offering more luggage space for the (negligible) airport passengers, the local passengers preferred the low floor buses used previously.

Covid saw the route curtailed at Uxbridge and the coaches sent off to Go North East for some routes radiating from Newcastle. Not sure how they are doing there.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Wheelchair lifts are next to useless on rural routes and need a fairly wide Pavement to be operated . Therefore the only answer to this question is low floor

Yep, as I said in my previous posts, low floor is the only way to go.

I started this thread also because I was also wondering why in some European countries, especially France and Italy, they would use generally use step entrance coaches on rural routes than a low floor bus. Which, in a few words, will make journey times slower and cause problems for the elderly.

 

[scosutsut]

I think the Panther LE is a step to what we need - a solution that suits both the disabled and the journey type, in that order of priority.

Something like an accessible Panorama would work get us closer to a solution I reckon.

Issue with that is what operator will splash on that over say a E200 that can run the same route?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I think the Panther LE is a step to what we need - a solution that suits both the disabled and the journey type, in that order of priority.

Something like an accessible Panorama would work get us closer to a solution I reckon.

Issue with that is what operator will splash on that over say a E200 that can run the same route?

Yep absolutely regarding Panther LEs. Hopefully more companies are interested in buying them. Panoramas, like with many double decker coaches if not all, are already low floor on the lower deck.

 

[cnjb8]

Carousel’s Chiltern Hundreds Route linking High Wycombe with Heathrow was relaunched at the start of the year with coaches displaced from the X90 Oxford - London service. Whilst undoubtedly more comfortable and offering more luggage space for the (negligible) airport passengers, the local passengers preferred the low floor buses used previously.

Covid saw the route curtailed at Uxbridge and the coaches sent off to Go North East for some routes radiating from Newcastle. Not sure how they are doing there.

They haven't arrived yet.

I think the Panther LE is a step to what we need - a solution that suits both the disabled and the journey type, in that order of priority.

Something like an accessible Panorama would work get us closer to a solution I reckon.

Issue with that is what operator will splash on that over say a E200 that can run the same route?

We've had this discussion a million times! The Panther LE can't fit enough passengers or luggage for the vast majority of coach routes.

 

[PeterC]

Carousel’s Chiltern Hundreds Route linking High Wycombe with Heathrow was relaunched at the start of the year with coaches displaced from the X90 Oxford - London service. Whilst undoubtedly more comfortable and offering more luggage space for the (negligible) airport passengers, the local passengers preferred the low floor buses used previously.

Covid saw the route curtailed at Uxbridge and the coaches sent off to Go North East for some routes radiating from Newcastle. Not sure how they are doing there.

I was planning to take a trip on that route when the weather improved in the spring. Knowing how many shopping trolleys my local service carries I did suspect that the vehicles would prove unpopular.

Does anybody know what the popular reaction has been to the transfer of the 853 from Swanbrook, using coaches, to Stagecoach, using low floor buses?

We've had this discussion a million times! The Panther LE can't fit enough passengers or luggage for the vast majority of coach routes.

I think we are talking about bus routes.

 

[MrKyleBuses]

The Elite Interdeck and Van Hool Altano are somewhat ideal as they have 3 seats lower deck and no need for a wheelchair lift as there is also a wheelchair space there and also can fit lots of luggage however it also has the issue if those seats are full then any more with reduced mobility will still have to climb the steps and the fact they are still pretty large for most routes as they are both long tri axles.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

The Elite Interdeck and Van Hool Altano are somewhat ideal as they have 3 seats lower deck and no need for a wheelchair lift as there is also a wheelchair space there and also can fit lots of luggage however it also has the issue if those seats are full then any more with reduced mobility will still have to climb the steps and the fact they are still pretty large for most routes as they are both long tri axles.

Indeed. As much as I find them innovative, they have the issue of requiring more clearance than a classic 12m coach, and also 3 seats on the lower deck isn't enough. Something with a design of at least 7-8 would be ideal.

 

[Bristol LHS]

I do miss the higher vantage points on coaches and underfloor engined chassis like the LH or LHS. in rural areas, it can make the difference between being able to see over the hedge or not. I’d far rather have the view from a United LHS bombing up from Richmond to Reeth, or up Wensleydale in a Leopard or Tiger, than be sitting in the low floor end of a Dales and District Solo, where often the window only begins level with your shoulder.

That said, I can sit at the back in a more raised position, and I don’t think my desire for a better view should trump accessibility for those that it makes a real difference for.

 

[Boo_]

If a Bus is done to a standard like Stagecoach Gold there no reason a low floor bus is not fit for any route.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I was planning to take a trip on that route when the weather improved in the spring. Knowing how many shopping trolleys my local service carries I did suspect that the vehicles would prove unpopular.

Does anybody know what the popular reaction has been to the transfer of the 853 from Swanbrook, using coaches, to Stagecoach, using low floor buses?


I think we are talking about bus routes.

Coach routes too, but not routes like National Express or Megabus. More like routes around the north of Scotland, where some of the local routes there are run with coaches rather than buses for some odd reason.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

If a Bus is done to a standard like Stagecoach Gold there no reason a low floor bus is not fit for any route.

Indeed, some countries in Mainland Europe in my opinion should learn from Stagecoach Gold or Arriva Sapphire. Step entrance like the Mercedes Integro, Setra S417UL or Iveco Crossway is just not going to work.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I always thought the UK was generally ahead of Mainland Europe in terms of bus accessibility.

In fact, only Germany, Austria, Netherlands and maybe Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark or Norway seem to be close to the UK in terms of level of bus accessibility.

 

[MrKyleBuses]

If a Bus is done to a standard like Stagecoach Gold there no reason a low floor bus is not fit for any route.

The problem is more that luggage space is needed for certain routes, especially more long-distance inter-town/city routes, Also comfort levels for longer routes is still not great even tho its a higher specification.

 

[Busaholic]

I think what is meant by 'rural routes' needs to be better defined. The last thing the truly rural routes round here need are coaches blocking the lanes and leaving some places unserved because of accessibility problems, even if there were no other considerations.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I think what is meant by 'rural routes' needs to be better defined. The last thing the truly rural routes round here need are coaches blocking the lanes and leaving some places unserved because of accessibility problems, even if there were no other considerations.

Doesn't First Kernow use coaches on some of its 2xx school routes?