Lufthansa 747s unable to leave Twente Airport

[yorkie]

Six Lufthansa 747s "Stuck" At Small Dutch Airport Now Allowed To Depart

Six Lufthansa 747s that were put into storage in the Netherlands weren't allowed to leave the airport. A resolution has now been reached.

onemileatatime.com

Lufthansa is preparing to scrap these 747s, but has decided to do so elsewhere (not at Twente Airport), a move that the airport leadership respects. This week Lufthansa hoped to have its 747s leave the airport, but there’s one major problem — the planes aren’t allowed to take off from there, as reported by Tubantia.

What happened? In a situation that the airport director calls “too absurd for words,” the Netherland’s Human Environment and Transport Inspectorate has allegedly issued an interim permit change that prevents 747s from taking off at the airport. In other words, 747s can land at the airport, but can’t take off from there.

It’s not entirely clear what caused this policy change, though, since the airport suggests that 747s taking off wasn’t an issue in the past.

how could something like this happen?

 

[philthetube]

Maybe they are using our DFT as agency workers?

 

[biko]

It’s a long story. The airport has been reopened in 2017 mainly for ‘innovative industries’ related to aviation and for business flights. Before, it was a military base and then it was unused for about a decade. One of those innovative businesses is an aircraft recycling company which is the main user of the airport. So normal usage is very few business flights, some private flights and big airplanes landing for demolition.

So what’s happened now is that the airport thought it would be a good idea to store planes as well as half of the terrain is unused and they have a pretty long landing strip. Sounds good, but their safety certificate is based on what they normally happens: landing and taking off of small aircraft and landing only of large ones. The inspectorate says the airport should have known this and that they were not informed of the new plans, while the airport says they were surprised by a sudden prohibition. The reason the certificate cannot just be extended is apparently that the infrastructure is not suitable.

 

[edwin_m]

If they can fly out aircraft such as the Gimli Glider from places that weren't even airports then I'm sure there would be a way round this if there was a will. There are places where certain aircraft can land in emergency but have to be stripped of all unnecessary weight before they can take off again.

I suspect someone just wants to push some business in to the local recycling company.

 

[philthetube]

Sounds like paperwork ruling common sense.
agreed that checks need to be made but it should not need much more than a tape measure to check that the runway is long enough and clearances are ok to move an empty plane.

I am sure there have been emergency landings in other places with aircraft not cleared and they are not all sat on tarmac.


Incidentally the Concord at Duxford airfield could never leave there, even if airworthy.

This is because the M11 was built since it landed and the runway is now to short.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall at least one of the exhibits at the RAF Museum at Hendon was flown in when the airfield had been partly redeveloped and had to be done while there was still enough runway to do so. I don't think the same can be said for the Shackleton at Manchester Museum of Science and Industry...

 

[biko]

Today a solution has been found by the airport and the inspectorate. There has been made an exception but only if the planes take off with a limited amount of fuel to make them as light as possible and they need to be pushed back to the far end of the strip to be able to use the full length. And it appears the first planes actually weren’t allowed to land, but a certificate has been granted retrospectively.

Full story here (in Dutch): https://nos.nl/l/2354309

Now that there is an agreement between the parties, the first aircraft can take off in the short term. Two others will leave before the turn of the year. The last three are scheduled to leave Twente Airport by the end of June 2021.

 

[Swanny200]

Sounds like paperwork ruling common sense.
agreed that checks need to be made but it should not need much more than a tape measure to check that the runway is long enough and clearances are ok to move an empty plane.

I am sure there have been emergency landings in other places with aircraft not cleared and they are not all sat on tarmac.


Incidentally the Concord at Duxford airfield could never leave there, even if airworthy.

This is because the M11 was built since it landed and the runway is now to short.

Funny you say that, I was thinking about the vulcan that is at the North East Air Museum in Sunderland, it flew into Sunderland airport in 1983 and even if it was fully airworthy, wouldn't be able to leave as Sunderland Airport is now the Nissan Factory. I would imagine that there are quite a few places like that around the UK.

 

[JonathanP]

What came to my mind was the case of Chicago Meigs field(well known as the default airport for early versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator), which closed 'unexpectedly' by virtue of the mayor secretly hiring bulldozers to destroy the runway under cover of darkness, thus forcing the aircaft parked there to take off from a taxiway!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Today a solution has been found by the airport and the inspectorate. There has been made an exception but only if the planes take off with a limited amount of fuel to make them as light as possible and they need to be pushed back to the far end of the strip to be able to use the full length. And it appears the first planes actually weren’t allowed to land, but a certificate has been granted retrospectively.

Full story here (in Dutch): https://nos.nl/l/2354309

Sounds like an obvious plan. Very low fuel load to make them light then fly to a nearby airport that has the necessary runway length. I am sure other stuff could be stripped out to make them lighter too.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I'm puzzled by these references to short runway length and requiring a light load to be able to take off from Twente Airport.
The runway length and take-off distances there are more than adequate for a moderately loaded 747 to depart.
Obstacle clearances are good too.
Twente's runway is longer than those at Cardiff and Bournemouth, both of which have seen regular 747 movements.
Also longer than the runway at Princess Juliana Int. Airport, St. Maarten (which sees regular long haul wide bodies) and the runways at Liverpool and Newcastle, both of which have been used by large wide body aircraft in the past.

There is some other issue at play here. The runway length shouldn't be a factor.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What is its height above sea level?

 

[BananaRepublic]

What is its height above sea level?

Twente - airfield ref. 115' amsl - actual runway thresholds are at 99' amsl and 114' amsl.

Cardiff 220' amsl (r/w thresholds - 205' & 213" amsl) - BA maintenance base has seen lots of 747 movements over the years.
Newcastle 266' amsl
Liverpool 81' amsl
Bournemouth 36' amsl

n.b. Lufthansa wouldn't be planning to fly these aircraft out of there if it wasn't possible or safe.




z

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I seem to recall at least one of the exhibits at the RAF Museum at Hendon was flown in when the airfield had been partly redeveloped and had to be done while there was still enough runway to do so.

Correct. There is a section about in one of the following documentaries (don't know which, both recorded from TV and on same disc) "The Secret Life of The Airport / Goodbye London Aerodrome". If I remember correctly, in summary, it had to fly in very low over some new flats and it gave people the *hits, them not expecting a plane to land there ever again.

From Wikipedia
Wikipedia: Royal Air force Museum London

The last flight to Hendon by a fixed-wing aircraft took place on 19 June 1968, when the last operational Blackburn Beverley was delivered to the Museum prior to its royal opening in 1972.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Twente - airfield ref. 115' amsl - actual runway thresholds are at 99' amsl and 114' amsl.

Cardiff 220' amsl (r/w thresholds - 205' & 213" amsl) - BA maintenance base has seen lots of 747 movements over the years.
Newcastle 266' amsl
Liverpool 81' amsl
Bournemouth 36' amsl

n.b. Lufthansa wouldn't be planning to fly these aircraft out of there if it wasn't possible or safe.

Oh trust me I agree. I know the runways are longer at DEN for example because it is a mile high.

 

[biko]

There is some other issue at play here. The runway length shouldn't be a factor.

I’ve tried to find the real reasons and it all seems to come down to the missing safety certificate. The runways are indeed quite long but it’s not allowed. I think they just never did a safety assessment for taking off as they never planned to have large planes taking off. But this is pure speculation from me. Another reason may be that there would be a lot of resistance of nearby residents if they would apply for an extended certificate because of fears for more flights.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

It sounds like it's the same sort of paperwork issue that stops a 747 landing at Campbeltown Airport.

When it was RAF Machrihanish, the runway was certified at 10,003ft (making it the longest runway in Scotland). When it became Campbeltown Airport, it was recertified at just 5,741ft. The runway was sufficiently long and well specified that the site was designated a Space Shuttle abort site, now it's only really long enough for Loganair to potter about with their SAAB and ATR aircraft. I don't think it can even take an Airbus A320 now.

 

[edwin_m]

It sounds like it's the same sort of paperwork issue that stops a 747 landing at Campbeltown Airport.

When it was RAF Machrihanish, the runway was certified at 10,003ft (making it the longest runway in Scotland). When it became Campbeltown Airport, it was recertified at just 5,741ft. The runway was sufficiently long and well specified that the site was designated a Space Shuttle abort site, now it's only really long enough for Loganair to potter about with their SAAB and ATR aircraft. I don't think it can even take an Airbus A320 now.

Abandoning half the runway saves a lot of cost on maintenance and when things come up for replacement, and if there's no use by larger aircraft then it has to be funded from the probably rather meagre income available without actually bringing in any extra. Presumably NASA paid them a retainer to keep it in a suitable condition for Shuttle landings even though they never used it as such.

There's a need for a certain number of runways for diversion and emergencies but Prestwick is only 40 miles or a handful of minutes flying time.

 

[Swanny200]

I always laugh about Campbeltown airport, the stories that even now the airport is used for US Black projects coming from area 51, one of the reasons for such a long runway.

 

[Bald Rick]

It sounds like it's the same sort of paperwork issue that stops a 747 landing at Campbeltown Airport.

When it was RAF Machrihanish, the runway was certified at 10,003ft (making it the longest runway in Scotland). When it became Campbeltown Airport, it was recertified at just 5,741ft. The runway was sufficiently long and well specified that the site was designated a Space Shuttle abort site, now it's only really long enough for Loganair to potter about with their SAAB and ATR aircraft. I don't think it can even take an Airbus A320 now.

Maybe the other half could be used as a heritage runway?

 

[Darandio]

I'm not even sure the whole Campbeltown Airport as a NASA abort site is completely true, it only really started getting mentioned as a thing when the whole UK Space Port plan re-emerged and the airport became a prime candidate. There certainly wasn't any evidence of NASA certifying it as an abort site in the same way Shannon and Fairford were.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Just for clarity, the full length of the Twente Airport runway is still available and licensed for use..
It hasn't been shortened.