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Mainland Italy to Sicily

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YorkshireBear

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Looking at a trip in November. Trying to make sure everything is in order before booking tickets. I seem to be able to find all trains I want, the Italian high speed and regional ones are all showing but the ICs to Sicily are not showing past mid October. Does anyone know why this might be? Just don't want to plan a trip based on catching those trains if they are not running. Can't find any other information in my searches and it looks as if regional trains continue to run on the lines so assume it's not engineering works. Italy does seem to have funny booking window times.

I have discovered that you can get interrail reservations for Italy through the OBB website which is very handy too!

Any help appreciated.
 
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Flying Snail

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I assume you are wanting the train ferry ICs. They seem often enough to be later inclusions than most of the timetable for whatever reason, I noticed the same earlier in the year.

Also OBB don't always have reservations available as soon as FS release them on their own platform, it can be weeks in the difference.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Isn't there a 60-day window for those IC trains?
It's 5 years since I booked on the day train from Naples (0726 ex-Rome, IC723) for Sicily, but I think that was the lead time then.
Remember (I didn't!) that this train reverses at Naples.

I see there's a faster Frecciargento service FA8333 to Reggio di Calabria from Rome at 0858, which overtakes the Sicily IC and runs ahead of it from Salerno.
So you could take this train and change to IC723 anywhere between Salerno and Villa San Giovanni.
This train is bookable up to October 15.
It runs via the HSL (IC723 runs via the classic coast line) and calls at Napoli Afragola in the suburbs (no reversal).
It also has a bar on board (nothing on IC723).

Both these trains run every day according to the European Rail Timetable.
 
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Iskra

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Unless you are specifically wanting the train ferry, it can be quicker to just book a normal train to Reggio Calabria or Villa San Giovanni and then just get the Hydrofoil/ferry across the straits as a foot passenger.
 

YorkshireBear

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Specifically after the train ferry yeah. 60 day window rings a bell actually. So sounds like I'm good to book the trip then get those reservations later.

We are going from Napoli Centrale to Siracusa.

Been warned of the lack of bar, man in seat 61 suggests some wine and picnic which I am sure I could organise!

Thanks for the help folks, knew someone would know the answer!
 
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eastwestdivide

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some wine and picnic which I am sure I could organise
There's a decent enough supermarket called Superò just by Napoli Centrale - go a couple of blocks north on the E side of Corso Novara (i.e. with your back to the station forecourt, turn right on the big main road). Plenty of fresh produce and deli stuff for picnics. There's a weigh and print your own price ticket thing for fruit & veg and bread products.
 

MarcVD

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I see there's a faster Frecciargento service FA8333 to Reggio di Calabria from Rome at 0858, which overtakes the Sicily IC and runs ahead of it from Salerno.
So you could take this train and change to IC723 anywhere between Salerno and Villa San Giovanni.
This train is bookable up to October 15.
It runs via the HSL (IC723 runs via the classic coast line) and calls at Napoli Afragola in the suburbs (no reversal).
It also has a bar on board (nothing on IC723).

Yes but scenery on the coastal line is much nicer. When I did it use used high speed from Roma to Napoli and catched the IC there.
 

wellhouse

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It's a while since I've used the train ferry but I certainly recommend the experience.

As others have said, one consideration is the lack of on-board catering other than the cafe on the ferry.,

That said, as has also been mentioned, the through trains are often overtaken on the mainland. On my trip from Palermo to Naples, I left the IC at Villa San Giovanni, and after a delightful lunch at a nearby restaurant, continued my journey north on a later, faster train.

As far as the bookings window goes, I wonder whether ferry schedules might be confirmed later than rail schedules?
 

D6130

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Been warned of the lack of bar, man in seat 61 suggests some wine and picnic which I am sure I could organise!
Although there is no official catering on the IC trains, as I have mentioned before, there is usually an enterprising Neapolitan gentleman patrolling the train selling filled rolls, soft drinks and mineral water from a shopping trolley. While the supermarket/deli/picnic option is infinitely preferable, the free enterprise option is OK for emergencies, if you don't mind eating cheap processed cheese and ham. All this is highly illegal of course, but no one takes any notice of the rules South of Naples and the train crew turn a blind eye. (They probably get a free sandwhich or two from the vendors!)
 

AlbertBeale

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Although there is no official catering on the IC trains, as I have mentioned before, there is usually an enterprising Neapolitan gentleman patrolling the train selling filled rolls, soft drinks and mineral water from a shopping trolley. While the supermarket/deli/picnic option is infinitely preferable, the free enterprise option is OK for emergencies, if you don't mind eating cheap processed cheese and ham. All this is highly illegal of course, but no one takes any notice of the rules South of Naples and the train crew turn a blind eye. (They probably get a free sandwhich or two from the vendors!)

Even the sleeper train on the 1000-mile run from from Milan to Syracuse, via the ferry, had no catering a few years back when I was on it for about 18 hours or more (less a quick nip up to the deck on the short ferry crossing). Apart from (an admittedly exceptionally good) coffee from the sleeper attendant in the morning, that is. But a slap-up meal in the evening at Milan station before boarding, plus a traditional long-distance-train picnic bag which was enough for a hearty breakfast while running down the coast on the way to the ferry the next morning, did the trick.

A warning - the first cafe I dived into right outside Syracuse station on arrival, prior to heading to my hotel, made a clumsy attempt at ripping me off. My Italian isn't great, but it's good enough to argue about arithmetic; he lost the tip he'd otherwise have had and so ended up worse off.

Re booking windows: the sleeper is I guess an ICN (certainly not a "HS" train), but I'm pretty sure there was no problem booking months ahead. (Maybe their booking window is longer than the day-time ICs?) By booking well ahead, I managed the journey from London to Paris, plus Paris to Milan, plus the bed from Milan to Syracuse, for little more than £100 per person end to end. Though I guess it's a bit more these days, especially the London-Paris bit!

In terms of journey times and the slow train crossing on the ferry referred to above (by someone suggesting it's quicker to get a train to the port and then cross as a foot passenger) - I read somewhere about plans to speed up long-distance rail links to the island. Apparently they'll be building short 4-carriage (including the driving cab at each end) HS sets - I think as sleepers too - which will run from northern Italy to Sicily. That way they can double them up, run as 8-coach trains via the HS lines where they exist (so cutting quite a bit off of the journey time going the length of the country), and can then divide them into the 4-car units at the port [to be short enough to get in the ferry] and drive them on and off the ferry under their own steam (presumably they'll have enough battery back-up for that), so avoiding the lengthy shunting (especially on the mainland side) which goes on at present - which takes far longer than the actual ferry transit time itself. The shunting on the Sicily side seems quicker because the train stays in bits to run to different destinations, and I think there's no reversal at the dockside as there is on the mainland.

A much fast sleeper the length of Italy does sound tempting... It could mean London-Sicily in not massively more than 24 hours, leaving one morning, being on the island the next morning.
 

YorkshireBear

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Thanks for the advice on the swap to a high speed train, we may consider that on the way back from Sicily to Rome for the flight home but do the scenic way on the way.

The guy with the trolley sounds interesting, and unusual!

How long does the ferry take? Plenty of time to use the cafe?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I think it's about half an hour on the ferry (from leaving the train to boarding it again - you have to leave the train as it's locked for the crossing).
The ferry route is longer than the apparent width of the strait, as Messina port is south of Villa San G.

I don't think an HS train overtakes the ferry train anywhere south of Salerno, they all use the same tracks but might have different stopping patterns.
The ERT gives the details.
When I tried a dummy booking from Rome, the TI site wanted me to change at Salerno into the ferry train.
I don't know if you can force a change elsewhere for a longer journey on the HS service.
Apart from lack of refreshments, the ferry train is very comfortable and not at all crowded (in September; it's a different story in holiday periods).
 

AlbertBeale

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When we travelled on the sleeper Rome - Siracusa last year we slept through the ferry crossing and woke up on the island.

You did well to not be woken up during the shunting!

The Rome route, arriving in Sicily in the morning, crosses at night, as you found. On the Milan sleeper, not arriving in Syracuse until after lunch, it's already morning on the run down the coast before you reach the ferry, and the crossing is in daylight. Similarly on the return, the sleeper to Milan leaves in the afternoon, so as to get to the north the next morning (maybe using the earlier-arriving rolling stock from the Rome southbound service - though given the lack of punctuality of sleepers, there'd not be much turn-round time; so maybe there's always a spare set on the island and they rotate them), hence crossing in daylight; the northbound to Rome doesn't need to leave its origin stations until the evening, and hence it'll be dark virtually all the year round by the time you reach the ferry. I understand that the late evening crossing heading north, seeing the island slipping away after dark, is a kind of "rite of passage" [sic] for islanders heading to better-paid work further north.
 

YorkshireBear

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The trains have now appeared on the Italian booking system but not on OBB (which no longer seems to want to let me make interrail reservations in Italy) and have not appeared in the interrail reservation system.

From comments up thread I assume this is normal?
 

30907

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On the Milan sleeper, not arriving in Syracuse until after lunch, it's already morning on the run down the coast before you reach the ferry, and the crossing is in daylight. Similarly on the return, the sleeper to Milan leaves in the afternoon, so as to get to the north the next morning (maybe using the earlier-arriving rolling stock from the Rome southbound service - though given the lack of punctuality of sleepers, there'd not be much turn-round time; so maybe there's always a spare set on the island and they rotate them).
Bepated comment: the Rome sleepers have Excelsior class (=DeLuxe in other countries!) but the Milan didn't last time I checked, so must use 3 sets.
 

railfan99

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Although there is no official catering on the IC trains, as I have mentioned before, there is usually an enterprising Neapolitan gentleman patrolling the train selling filled rolls, soft drinks and mineral water from a shopping trolley. While the supermarket/deli/picnic option is infinitely preferable, the free enterprise option is OK for emergencies, if you don't mind eating cheap processed cheese and ham. All this is highly illegal of course, but no one takes any notice of the rules South of Naples and the train crew turn a blind eye. (They probably get a free sandwhich or two from the vendors!)

Vendors on trains are common in nations like India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and formerly when it had long distance rail, Philippines, all to which I have travelled, and are tolerated thanks to the service they provide. What's wrong with them doing same on a European (or UK!) train that lacks a buffet car?
 

Iskra

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Vendors on trains are common in nations like India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and formerly when it had long distance rail, Philippines, all to which I have travelled, and are tolerated thanks to the service they provide. What's wrong with them doing same on a European (or UK!) train that lacks a buffet car?
The word illegal is a bit of a clue. It’s not a good idea to buy from such sellers as you have no reassurances that the food is in date, stored safely, safe to eat in anyway and that your money is not going to nefarious organisations. In Southern Italy, profit, tax evasion and money-laundering are often the priority over even the most basic safety concerns.
 
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In Southern Italy, profit, tax evasion and money-laundering are often the priority over even the most basic safety concerns.
Right, that's me re-locating to Southern Italy!
Seriously, I doubt if the vendors food will be that bad? After all, the bloke will want repeat business.
As mentioned above, vendors are a staple of many trains in India, selling not just snacks, tea, and water, but an astonishing array of stuff!
 

D6130

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It’s not a good idea to buy from such sellers as you have no reassurances that the food is in date, stored safely, safe to eat in anyway
Sorry....forgot to mention that they always have a large cool box attached to the shopping trolley for storing their sandwiches and cold drinks. However you are correct in principle.
 

philthetube

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I wonder if they provide recipts, in my recollection everywhere in Italy does, it is illegal not to, you get them in other circumstances where it is surprising, and are not allowed to refuse them.
 

rg177

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I wonder if they provide recipts, in my recollection everywhere in Italy does, it is illegal not to, you get them in other circumstances where it is surprising, and are not allowed to refuse them.
Yes I recall being shouted at by security to get back in a shop in Bari recently, only for the cashier to shake her head and hand me a receipt.

All this over a bottle of water :lol:
 

rvdborgt

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The trains have now appeared on the Italian booking system but not on OBB (which no longer seems to want to let me make interrail reservations in Italy) and have not appeared in the interrail reservation system.

From comments up thread I assume this is normal?
Trains will appear on the ÖBB (and other) websites whenever Trenitalia feel like sending their data to the European Timetable Centre. Italian domestic day trains can be booked on the ÖBB website. ICNs have never been bookable via the ÖBB website. They can be booked though at the ticket office in many countries.
 

D6130

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I have been alerted to an interesting development by an article in the latest (September) issue of the monthly Italian railway magazine I Treni (Trains). The ten class E464 electric locomotives which were transferred to the InterCity sector a couple of years ago to work daytime and overnight IC/ICN services on Sicily are to be fitted with traction batteries in their unused luggage compartments, to enable them to run onto and off the train ferries and work the trains through to and from Napoli or Roma, without having to undertake the currently time-consuming shunting of the stock on and off the ferries using class D145. 2000 series heavy diesel shunters. The first loco to be modified - E464 199 - has just emerged from Foligno works, to be replaced by E464 276. These two locos will be subjected to rigorous testing before a decision is taken to modify the remaining eight locos. If these tests are successful, up to an hour could be saved on the overall journey times to and from the mainland, so I would suggest that anyone hoping for D145.2000 haulage should head down there soon!
 

Flying Snail

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I have been alerted to an interesting development by an article in the latest (September) issue of the monthly Italian railway magazine I Treni (Trains). The ten class E464 electric locomotives which were transferred to the InterCity sector a couple of years ago to work daytime and overnight IC/ICN services on Sicily are to be fitted with traction batteries in their unused luggage compartments, to enable them to run onto and off the train ferries and work the trains through to and from Napoli or Roma, without having to undertake the currently time-consuming shunting of the stock on and off the ferries using class D145. 2000 series heavy diesel shunters. The first loco to be modified - E464 199 - has just emerged from Foligno works, to be replaced by E464 276. These two locos will be subjected to rigorous testing before a decision is taken to modify the remaining eight locos. If these tests are successful, up to an hour could be saved on the overall journey times to and from the mainland, so I would suggest that anyone hoping for D145.2000 haulage should head down there soon!

Some shunting will still be required as the train has to be split into several (3 afair) sections to fit on the ferry.
 
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