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Major Disruption At Paddington (3rd Dec 2017)

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SpacePhoenix

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Nothing able to move towards Paddington atm between Hayes and Harlington and Paddington due to a combination of engineering works and a broken down train (think it's 621Z that has broken down - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/B33940/2017/12/03/advanced).

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/177878.aspx

A broken down freight train between Hayes & Harlington and London Paddington means the line towards London is currently blocked.

Planned improvement work between Reading and London Paddington means a reduced number of lines are available today. As the freight train is blocking the only available track in to London, trains are expected to be severely disrupted until the freight train has been moved.

As a result, your journey may be disrupted by up to 90 minutes.

Customers are advised to travel only where absolutely necessary and alternative travel arrangements should be made where possible. Tickets dated for travel today will be valid tomorrow.

There is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last but it is likely to continue until at least 18:30.

Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect customers may use London Underground services on all reasonable routes to and from Heathrow Airport.

If you are travelling to and from Heathrow Airport, please allow for extra time in your journey.

Great Western Railway customers may use:

  • London Underground on any reasonable route
  • South Western Railway on any reasonable route
  • London Buses on any reasonable routes
  • Chiltern Railways between Oxford / Banbury and London Marylebone
  • CrossCountry between Basingstoke and Oxford / Banbury
 
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PHILIPE

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Dhassell

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Looks like the freight in question has been moved into the Goods Loop at Hayes & Harlington.
 

cactustwirly

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Makes a change from the usual signal failures and fatalities...
 

Tunnel Bore

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Was trying to get to Heathrow this evening from Paddington. Only advice given was take a cab or use Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines (no Circle or District are a planned closure at Paddington today). Paddington's platforms were spookily quiet. Journey to Heathrow was no fun at all.
 

dk1

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All into the Three Guineas & get sozzled. Plenty of trains later on 8-)
 

Dhassell

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Lines now reopened. 1A83 running 180L into Paddington (3 hours late)
 

peter166

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Simple question - Why does it take so long (over 2hours ? ) to move a failed freight train?

Surely with engineering work taking place and only one track into London available, contingecy arragements would surely mean at least one manned rescue locomotive on standby for such an eventuality ??
 

dk1

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Simple question - Why does it take so long (over 2hours ? ) to move a failed freight train?

Surely with engineering work taking place and only one track into London available, contingecy arragements would surely mean at least one manned rescue locomotive on standby for such an eventuality ??

You can have as many rescue engines as you like but if you've got a no alternative lines available & several trains behind all non compatible with each other & in the way, it's amazing how many hours can pass before normal service resumes. Nothing you can do about it really.
 

peter166

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A standby locomotive at Paddington or Old Oak Common travels wrong line to the failed freight train, attaches to it and drags it out of the way ?
30 mins to 1 hour maximum ?
 

Dhassell

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What if the brakes on the train are locked on and they can't be released? No point "turning them off" and then rolling as you won't stop! Not as simple as just restarting the engine and moving on!
And even if there is a suitable loco to haul it away, you would need to find the right crew to work the light engine, and then make sure it has the right coupling, as well as a plan on where you are going to drag the failed train to! It would also take some time after the initial failure for the driver to find out what is wrong, and go through troubleshooting with his control.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Simple question - Why does it take so long (over 2hours ? ) to move a failed freight train?

Surely with engineering work taking place and only one track into London available, contingecy arragements would surely mean at least one manned rescue locomotive on standby for such an eventuality ??


But then you need qualified staff - a trainman at least , and probably another driver + back to back radios - not to mention a rolling stock examiner to assist the process - bad do - but it is not like shoving a Ford Transit onto the hard shoulder. You cannot just reverse a train out of the way , in 2 halves , without very carefull considertion as to what you are doing.
 

dk1

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A standby locomotive at Paddington or Old Oak Common travels wrong line to the failed freight train, attaches to it and drags it out of the way ?
30 mins to 1 hour maximum ?

Not on your nelly. Hornby maybe, real world never. Been involved in this many many times & it's hours.
 

TEW

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From what I read the failure was a ruptured brake pipe on one of the wagons, so a rescue locomotive would be pretty useless anyway. You could have as many locos as you could get your hands on, but if the problem is with the brakes on the wagons, it isn't going to help.
 

142094

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Plus depends on where the pipe is as well, and where the wagon is located in the consist.
 

peter166

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Does Network Rail not have any contigency planning in place for what is a fairly likely eventuality ??
 

Lrd

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Does Network Rail not have any contigency planning in place for what is a fairly likely eventuality ??
Network Rail maintain the track and signals. They don't run trains, that's down to the TOCs and FOCs.
 

jyte

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Wow this plus the Euston issues are pretty major.

From RTT and OpenTrainTimes, it looks like stuff is moving again but some trains considerably delayed.
 

142094

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Even with all the contingency planning in the world there are certain situations where even if everything goes to plan to rectify a fault or failure then it will take hours. I sat on a failed set for 6 hours once with a seized gearbox, waiting for the on call fitters to arrive with jacks and wheelskates. Plus add into the mix an overhead isolation and getting protection on adjacent running lines it cannot be done in the space of an hour.
 

PHILIPE

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A standby locomotive at Paddington or Old Oak Common travels wrong line to the failed freight train, attaches to it and drags it out of the way ?
30 mins to 1 hour maximum ?

Where would a standby locomotive at Paddington come from ?
 

NickBucks

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The contingency plan should be that where a major London terminal is concerned with many travellers on a Sunday evening and only one line available in / out that no freight trains should run which conflict with passenger train movements. They are not that important and a failure is likely to be more time consuming than if an HS125 /800 / 166 Turbo failed. Clearly no risk analysis took place .
 

alistairlees

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Out of interest, does the FOC have to foot the entire bill for this?

I ask because, if you assume that around 5,000 passengers are affected (a guess, but based on the earlier comment about "2,000 passengers stranded at Reading"), that they are all delayed by over 1 hour and would be (if GWR did Delay Repay) entitled to 100% of a single or 50% of a return, and that the average (single) ticket price is £30, then the total bill would come to £150,000.

A bunch of these in a year would seriously dent a FOC's profits. Or just make it uneconomic to run freights at certain times.
 

peter166

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It was Network Rail carrying out the engineering work which reduced the tracks into Paddington to one . It must be their responsibility to have have contingencies in place, probably in conjuction woth the various TOC's , as to what to do when, as is a strong possibility, a train fails on that single track. Have they never heard of risk analysis ?
In this case it appears not, or else the delay and disruption to passengers would have been considerably less.
 

AlexNL

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They are not that important
Freight trains pay for track access, just like passenger trains.
and a failure is likely to be more time consuming than if an HS125 /800 / 166 Turbo failed. Clearly no risk analysis took place .
A passenger train failure can also take hours to resolve, if the brakes refuse to release you're in for a whole lot of fun.

When passengers start to detrain themselves things get even more interesting. See Kentish Town.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Out of interest, does the FOC have to foot the entire bill for this?

I ask because, if you assume that around 5,000 passengers are affected (a guess, but based on the earlier comment about "2,000 passengers stranded at Reading"), that they are all delayed by over 1 hour and would be (if GWR did Delay Repay) entitled to 100% of a single or 50% of a return, and that the average (single) ticket price is £30, then the total bill would come to £150,000.

A bunch of these in a year would seriously dent a FOC's profits. Or just make it uneconomic to run freights at certain times.


NO - because FOC / TOC on TOc delays are capped and limited. NR will take the hit on this , not forgetting FGW and others ..let alone the loss of reputation ..
 

ChiefPlanner

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Freight trains pay for track access, just like passenger trains.

A passenger train failure can also take hours to resolve, if the brakes refuse to release you're in for a whole lot of fun.

When passengers start to detrain themselves things get even more interesting. See Kentish Town.


Yes but freight still pays "avoidable" charges - and the revenue from freight to NR is something like £70m a year - peanuts - however I was in a pub when this was quoted ...
 
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