Masks again

[LowLevel]

Whose going to bother doing anything about it exactly? I bet the police are dreading the idea. I certainly won't be. I wear a mask at work because my employer asks me to and I don't care.

I have no intention of interacting with anyone else on the matter.

 

[yorkie]

Up until restrictions were lifted in the summer, the daily Scottish infections were about 1/10 of the UK total. The primary difference in restrictions since that point has been the wearing of facemasks in public spaces in Scotland. In recent months, the daily Scottish infections have been about 1/20 of the UK total.

When the mask mandate was lifted in England, we saw a reduction in case rates. However Scotland, where masks remained compulsory, saw a massive increase, with the 7 day case rate going as high as 824.7 per 100k. Right now case rates are marginally higher in England than Scotland (though Scotland was higher just 3 weeks ago) but you would generally expect England case rates to be higher, given the demographics.

 

[MikeWM]

Thinking about it Whitty was quoted the other day as saying the public may not accept further restrictions. Call me cynical but what better way to visibly test public compliance? Don’t give them the green light!

Couldn't agree more, this occurred to me too.

We all know what happened the last time they introduced masks and saw there was high compliance with them - and we all had a thoroughly miserable autumn and winter as a result.

If we show high compliance again, this is very likely to be the start of more restrictions, not the end.

 

[Bikeman78]

Partly Bikeman78's point, but also because, despite what some like to think, masks are a restriction: they stop you properly understanding what others are saying when they're speaking and their body language. Ironically not wearing masks while speaking, but wearing them at other times, makes any requirement pointless, regardless of how effective they are, as talking expels more air.

I see loads of people in shops pull down their masks to speak. Both staff and customers. Utterly pointless. Also I usually have to repeat myself when buying a ticket because the other person cannot hear me properly.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Couldn't agree more, this occurred to me too.

We all know what happened the last time they introduced masks and saw there was high compliance with them - and we all had a thoroughly miserable autumn and winter as a result.

If we show high compliance again, this is very likely to be the start of more restrictions, not the end.

Didn’t even think of that. What a marvellous comment, and very true. If everyone does nothing, Christmas is probably saved.

 

[Richard Scott]

It reduces the risk.

Here we go again, for the umpteenth time, no they don't.

I do wear an FFP2 mask.
I also hope you’re aware that having the vaccine doesn’t make you immune from catching the virus or passing it on.

Nor does an FFP2 mask

 

[yorkie]

I also hope you’re aware that having the vaccine doesn’t make you immune from catching the virus or passing it on.

Do you deny that vaccines induce a level of immunity that offers excellent levels of protection against what vaccines are intended for, i.e. to protect against severe symptoms, hospitalisations and deaths?

I think you don't understand what the term "immunity" actually means.

 

[Iskra]

Here we go again, for the umpteenth time, no they don't.


Nor does an FFP2 mask

The best defence is staying 2m+ away from people, not masks.

Individuals can choose to do the above, without negatively impacting others by enforcing pointless restrictions.

 

[alex397]

Here we go again, for the umpteenth time, no they don't.


Nor does an FFP2 mask

For the umpteenth time, yes they do.
An FFP2 mask reduces the risk, whether you like it or not.

Do you deny that vaccines induce a level of immunity that offers excellent levels of protection against what vaccines are intended for, i.e. to protect against severe symptoms, hospitalisations and deaths?

I think you don't understand what the term "immunity" actually means.

You know the point I was making. Having the vaccine reduces the risk of being affected seriously by the virus. It does induce a level of immunity, but doesn’t stop people from catching it or passing it on.

 

[Richard Scott]

For the umpteenth time, yes they do.
An FFP2 mask reduces the risk, whether you like it or not.

No, they don't. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they do. Austria would suggest that on its own!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Will this also mean the 50% capacity reduction being bought back on buses? Or only the return of mask mandates?

 

[yorkie]

For the umpteenth time, yes they do.

No, they don't.

An FFP2 mask reduces the risk, whether you like it or not.

It reduces the chance of transmission, if worn correctly, but doesn't prevent you being infected. But if you've been vaccinated, an infection really doesn't matter.

However countries that have mandated FFP2 masks have still seen huge spikes in transmission, so there is no evidence that an FFP2 mandate would actually have any effect on reducing case rates in the relevant area.

You know the point I was making.

Your points make no sense and demonstrate a distrust of vaccine effectiveness.

Having the vaccine reduces the risk of being affected seriously by the virus.

Yes, massively so.

It does induce a level of immunity, but doesn’t stop people from catching it or passing it on.

We can never stop people catching coronaviruses; the virus is here to stay forever. It is becoming endemic whether you like it or not.

Will this also mean the 50% capacity reduction being bought back on buses?

No

Or only the return of mask mandates?

Just a mandate which is unenforceable, ineffective and to which anyone can declare themselves exempt from.

 

[Domh245]

Apologies if I missed it, but what is the reason that masks are being reimposed in these settings? England has seemed quite happy to bounce along at around 30,000 positive tests a day since late summer with no adverse impacts on hospitals & healthcare. If this move is targeted at the new omicron variant, it is rather early for that level of intervention IMO (at this stage you impose the restrictions on arrivals from outside the UK and increase testing, but no point doing population wide NPIs until there's evidence of population wide spread), which does leave me wondering if there is some ulterior motive.

 

[Dave91131]

Sorry to digress slightly - but on the hospitality point;

Based on masks not being required in hospitality venues, presumably one doesn't need a mask in the cafe area of (say) a large supermarket but does in the aisles.

If this is the case, what a farce. Oh but wait, hang on, the virus knows when it's in the cafe area so becomes dormant

 

[bramling]

If masks are genuinely important; why only retail and not hospitality too? It's just more lip service.

Anyone remember Freedom Day, when we dispensed with such bizarre tokenism? And vaccinations that made restrictions unnecessary...

Remember that our new way of life is locked up from January to June, how much of a summer we get depends on how much we comply and whether we do as we’re told getting injections the grand leader wants us to have, and Christmas entirely depends on good behaviour.

Couldn't agree more, this occurred to me too.

We all know what happened the last time they introduced masks and saw there was high compliance with them - and we all had a thoroughly miserable autumn and winter as a result.

If we show high compliance again, this is very likely to be the start of more restrictions, not the end.

Absolutely. They will be looking for a way to get restrictions in for the proper winter NHS months.

 

[yorkie]

Apologies if I missed it, but what is the reason that masks are being reimposed in these settings?

Good question. There is no good reason.

England has seemed quite happy to bounce along at around 30,000 positive tests a day since late summer with no adverse impacts on hospitals & healthcare. If this move is targeted at the new omicron variant, it is rather early for that level of intervention IMO (at this stage you impose the restrictions on arrivals from outside the UK and increase testing, but no point doing population wide NPIs until there's evidence of population wide spread), which does leave me wondering if there is some ulterior motive.

I agree. It's very sinister, which is why I feel it is important not to go along with it.

 

[bramling]

Sorry to digress slightly - but on the hospitality point;

Based on masks not being required in hospitality venues, presumably one doesn't need a mask in the cafe area of (say) a large supermarket but does in the aisles.

If this is the case, what a farce. Oh but wait, hang on, the virus knows when it's in the cafe area so becomes dormant

No worse than last December when the new version had built-in GPS and didn’t go past Watford Gap!

 

[Bayum]

Not this rubbish again. Some people do wear them, mostly due to pollution but sometimes so that they can travel to work whilst carrying a cold for example. Courtesy to others has nothing to do with it.

Your last part is far from the truth. Japanese will often mask up if they are unwell to ensure they don’t pass on whatever they have.

 

[Darandio]

Apologies if I missed it, but what is the reason that masks are being reimposed in these settings? England has seemed quite happy to bounce along at around 30,000 positive tests a day since late summer with no adverse impacts on hospitals & healthcare. If this move is targeted at the new omicron variant, it is rather early for that level of intervention IMO (at this stage you impose the restrictions on arrivals from outside the UK and increase testing, but no point doing population wide NPIs until there's evidence of population wide spread), which does leave me wondering if there is some ulterior motive.

They wanted an element of control back and were desperate to appease those around the NHS who wanted more restrictions to cover their continued failings.

Then the fact that they failed to mention to our public that this variant only looks to produce a milder ilness (doing what a virus does to stay alive longer!) is borderline reckless. It's yet another example of how sinister the whole process has become.

 

[yorkie]

Your last part is far from the truth. Japanese will often mask up if they are unwell to ensure they don’t pass on whatever they have.

Wearing a flimsy loose fitting mask does not in any way "ensure" they don't pass on whatever they have.

This would only work if they wore an effective tight fitting FFP3 mask (or, to a lesser extent, FFP2).

 

[Richard Scott]

Your last part is far from the truth. Japanese will often mask up if they are unwell to ensure they don’t pass on whatever they have.

They may do that but it doesn't ensure that they don't pass anything on. Really just virtue signalling.

 

[alex397]

They may do that but it doesn't ensure that they don't pass anything on. Really just virtue signalling.

It doesn’t ensure things are not passed on, but it does reduce the risk.

 

[yorkie]

It doesn’t ensure things are not passed on, but it does reduce the risk.

What risk? You're vaccinated aren't you?

The fact is you ARE going to be exposed to this virus at some point (if you haven't been already) and there is no way to avoid that. When you are exposed to it, you will develop immunity not just against the spike protein but also other parts of the virus, thus boosting your immunity even further and offering even greater protection against future exposure of the virus.

The idea that a vaccinated person needs to be worried about transmission and should perpetually put off a natural exposure is completely absurd and counter-intuitive.

Are you seriously saying you are not going to a restaurant or pub again? If not, why would mandating masks in shops stop you getting it?

 

[John Luxton]

I have made a number or rail journeys in Wales sans mask since last year. Nobody has said anything. A few days ago I made my first bus journey in Wales since C19 on Thursday. All the passengers were sat there like Drakeford's obedient sheep however, the driver who must have been a new recruit was accompanied by another company official who helped him out with the fare as the driver wasn't sure of where I meant when I stated my destination. Nothing was said to me about not wearing a mask and neither was the company official wearing a mask. Yet had moved from a passenger seat to assist the driver over the fare.

I will continue to not wear a mask in England and will just state exempt if challenged, don't get involved in an argument.

My next mainline rail journey is on Wednesday to York for the NRM. I am I going to comply? No way.

Let us end this by our refusal - so easy to say no!

 

[Dave91131]

It doesn’t ensure things are not passed on, but it does reduce the risk.

My bolding of the quoted post.

As does not smoking, not drinking, not eating foods high in fat against a whole host of diseases and health issues.

But we don't have press conferences or, at least anywhere near the extent, of virtue signalling about those things, do we?

It's a load of cr*p.

 

[Watershed]

This unfortunate news makes clear - for anyone who might have thought otherwise - that this government has no intention of a return to normality. I suppose it we can consider ourselves lucky that we managed to enjoy 4 and a bit months without restrictions. This winter is no doubt just going to be a rerun of last year.

 

[John Luxton]

My bolding of the quoted post.

As does not smoking, not drinking, not eating foods high in fat against a whole host of diseases and health issues.

But we don't have press conferences or, at least anywhere near the extent, of virtue signalling about those things, do we?

It's a load of cr*p.

Well said time for the sheep to wake up.

One thing I am really encouraged by are the number of anti Christmas Lockdown and Facemask messages now to be seen in Newspaper comment sections on Social Media.

Those of us who fought this nonsense last winter were definitely in the minority. I now feel as though many of the 2020 sheep have now become lions are and are prepared to roar rather than meekly comply.

I have a great respect of the British Police but we should be aware there are only just a tad over 3K BTP officers to police the railways.

I am sure they would rather be chasing graffiti artists, fraudsters, terrorists and real criminals than annoying the millions of usually law abiding passengers.

We can break this dictate easily

Stick together and just refuse.

 

[alex397]

What risk? You're vaccinated aren't you?

The fact is you ARE going to be exposed to this virus at some point (if you haven't been already) and there is no way to avoid that. When you are exposed to it, you will develop immunity not just against the spike protein but also other parts of the virus, thus boosting your immunity even further and offering even greater protection against future exposure of the virus.

The idea that a vaccinated person needs to be worried about transmission and should perpetually put off a natural exposure is completely absurd and counter-intuitive.

Are you seriously saying you are not going to a restaurant or pub again? If not, why would mandating masks in shops stop you getting it?

Yes I’m vaccinated. But I can still pass on things, including the flu. I would rather reduce the risk as much as I can, especially amongst work colleagues who are vulnerable.
You will also know that having a vaccine doesn’t stop you getting Covid completely (but significantly reduces the risk), and having being exposed to Covid can improve immunity but doesn’t stop you catching it again.
Where have I said I’ll never go in a restaurant or pub again? Mandating masks in shops won’t affect me much - I already wear a mask, and most shops I went in about half of people were wearing a mask anyway.

My bolding of the quoted post.

As does not smoking, not drinking, not eating foods high in fat against a whole host of diseases and health issues.

But we don't have press conferences or, at least anywhere near the extent, of virtue signalling about those things, do we?

It's a load of cr*p.

So, you’re arguement is that because we don’t promote healthier living more to help prevent Covid, we shouldn’t promote mask usage either? No, we should certainly promote healthier living too in regards to Covid.

 

[Dave91131]

So, you’re arguement is that because we don’t promote healthier living more to help prevent Covid, we shouldn’t promote mask usage either? No, we should certainly promote healthier living too in regards to Covid.

My view is it shouldn't be one rule for Covid and one rule for every other risk to health in existence.

 

[Eyersey468]

I'll be doing the bare minimum, they have squandered every scrap of goodwill I had through their lies and their hypocrisy.