Maximum age of train drivers?

[WestRiding]

The Metro has thrown out the garbage again about the passengers calling loved ones to say goodbye and there being a seven minute gap. Also mentions the driver of the SWR was in his 70s.

70s!? Didn't think that would be allowed....

 

[357]

70s!? Didn't think that would be allowed....

Why? Above 55 medical is done every year, and if the driver passes, why should they not be driving?

 

[norbitonflyer]

70s!? Didn't think that would be allowed....

Train Driver Requirements | Medical Standards & Retirement Age

"Technically, there is no maximum train driver age limit for driving provided you continue to pass the medicals. ". Normal retirement age is between 60 and 65, but this is only the age at which you can draw a pension - age discrimination law does not allow any employer to dismiss an employee on grounds of age alone.

A relative of mine was driving (on a preserved line) until he was 71 - indeed as his planned "last run" was cancelled/postponed because of the pandemic he may have one more run - he is now 73.

 

[norbitonflyer]

70s!? Didn't think that would be allowed....

Train Driver Requirements | Medical Standards & Retirement Age

"Technically, there is no maximum train driver age limit for driving provided you continue to pass the medicals. ". Normal retirement age is between 60 and 65, but this is only the age at which you can draw a pension - age discrimination law does not allow any employer to dismiss an employee on grounds of age alone.

A relative of mine was driving (on a preserved line) until he was 71 - indeed as his planned "last run" was cancelled/postponed because of the pandemic he may have one more run - he is now 73.

 

[WestRiding]

Why? Above 55 medical is done every year, and if the driver passes, why should they not be driving?

Wasn't a dig, I just wasn't aware it was a thing on the National Network, because of health stuff etc. Personally, (and for different reasons) , I'd encourage them to retire and let the young have a chance at a fantastic career rather than hogging potential vacancies in the industry (but that's just my personal opinion)

I'm in the railway pension scheme and wont be staying a day over the 60 years of age that it is based on, because I will have got my 40 years in, and believe that the younger end should get a chance at the higher grades of Signalling.

Anyway, back on topic, sorry for the potential drift. Maybe a good subject for another discussion

(can tell I've been on nights, I just blindly replied to the notification of this without realising it has been split from the original thread. No new discussion needed )

 

[175001]

There's a driver at a Northern depot in his 70s.

Just passed his rules and still going strong.

 

[Efini92]

It depends on the TOC, some now have agreements where staff have to retire at a certain age. Some don’t have anything so as long as they pass Medicals they can continue driving.

There's a driver at a Northern depot in his 70s.

Just passed his rules and still going strong.

wouldn’t be Blackpool would it?

 

[175001]

Can neither confirm nor deny...

 

[Efini92]

Can neither confirm nor deny...

Well if it’s windows he’s a top bloke.

 

[Lewlew]

I'd encourage them to retire and let the young have a chance at a fantastic career rather than hogging potential vacancies in the industry (but that's just my personal opinion)

What if they couldn’t afford it? Even with their pension some still struggle due to divorces etc. You going to kick them out on the street?

 

[WestRiding]

What if they couldn’t afford it? Even with their pension some still struggle due to divorces etc. You going to kick them out on the street?

Its only my opinion mate. Lets not get worked up.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't suppose there should be a maximum year so long as someone can meet all the medical requirements. One thing I would say about safety-critical medicals is that I don't believe there's a specific test (for drivers already in role) that assesses your mental strength; things like concentration & memory naturally decline as you get older and these are quite important for a driver which can (at times) be montonous but also has lots of recall too. This might be something to consider going forward for those over 65.

All that being said, not sure why you'd want to work as a driver past 70 - all that shift work & driving I want to enjoy the retirement from the decent salary I've earned! Sadly though I've know of many in the inustry in their 60s who have basically lived and breathed railway, retired and then only 12-18 months later you're hearing about their funeral plans... It gives some people something to look forward to so I can somewhat understand it but - as I've said to many - your work CANNOT be the be-all-and-end-all of your life.

 

[WestRiding]

I don't suppose there should be a maximum year so long as someone can meet all the medical requirements. One thing I would say about safety-critical medicals is that I don't believe there's a specific test that assesses your mental strength; things like concentration & memory naturally decline as you get older and these are quite important for a driver which can (at times) be montonous but also has lots of recall too. This might be something to consider going forward for those over 65.

All that being said, not sure why you'd want to work as a driver past 70 - all that shift work & driving I want to enjoy the retirement from the decent salary I've earned! Sadly though I've know of many in the inustry in their 60s who have basically lived and breathed railway, retired and then only 12-18 months later you're hearing about their funeral plans... It gives some people something to look forward to so I can somewhat understand it but - as I've said to many - your work CANNOT be the be-all-and-end-all of your life.

I was more thinking passenger reassurance. Just a big standard passenger and their innner thoughts when they see older staff doing safety critical duties (trains at high speed).

And I am a believer that the young need a chance at high grade jobs on the railway. Keep working if you want, but give the young uns a chance, don't clog their chances up to do 40 years.

All my personal opinion. After all, we're always slating youngsters as wasters, or increasingly so.

 

[Horizon22]

I was more thinking passenger reassurance. Just a big standard passenger and their innner thoughts when they see older staff doing safety critical duties (trains at high speed).

And I am a believer that the young need a chance at high grade jobs on the railway. Keep working if you want, but give the young uns a chance, don't clog their chances up to do 40 years.

All my personal opinion. After all, we're always slating youngsters as wasters, or increasingly so.

I have personally never consider it from a passenger angle and I doubt many passengers ruminate much about it. Many will see it as someone with experience and very few passengers are aware of the safety-critical medicals that staff have to go through and the training required - hence why you get comments in media articles about "driverless trains" on a semi-regular basis.

As a "younger" individual in the railway I think that's fairly untrue even if the media portrays it that way. In the industry, as long as you can do the job to the required standard, there's no issues. Plenty of young (lets say under 35) drivers, signallers (high grades) & controllers out there.

 

[43066]

Why? Above 55 medical is done every year, and if the driver passes, why should they not be driving?

Absolutely; this isn’t unusual at all. In fact anecdotally it’s becoming more common, as life is getting more and more expensive, and some older drivers continue working in order to assist family members with financial commitments etc.

Its only my opinion mate. Lets not get worked up.

Certainly not an opinion I can agree with. There may be very good reasons why older drivers need to continue working, or perhaps they simply enjoy the job and find it gives them a purpose in life. So long as they can still do the job to the required standard then good luck to them. Who is anyone else to judge or tell them different?!

Let’s be honest for every driver who continues into the 70s there will be many more who retire earlier than state retirement age.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The leader of the free world is three weeks from his 79th birthday and he's not even been in his job a year. If he's fit enough then he's young enough. Train drivers are subject to medical examinations, these cover sight, hearing, cardiovascular (etc) and are conducted annually after the age of 55. I know the Metro probably want to conjure images of those stories you hear about an OAP with cataracts who hasn't been to see an optician since 1976 running over a bunch of orphans outside a church or something, but it's not the same thing. Motorists are subject to far fewer restrictions than train drivers when it comes to fitness to drive, and we should always point that out to hysterical headline writers.

 

[4F89]

I'd trust a 75 year old driver over a 21 year old....

 

[Horizon22]

I'd trust a 75 year old driver over a 21 year old....

Why? Surely both have been given the thorough training and enough experiences (whether real or simulated) to know what to do. In fact you could argue the younger drivers' training is fresh in their mind.

Newer drivers (note not younger) are potentially more likely to have an incident yes, but that isn't a given. In the Fisherton Tunnel incident it appears the driver did exactly what was expected - I'd expect every driver to do the same with good reactions as that is what they are assessed for and trained to do.

Unless of course you are talking about car drivers in which perhaps I might agree (although off-topic). Although the crash incidence rate is probably something like a bell curve for car drivers.

 

[Nemo01]

Why? Surely both have been given the thorough training and enough experiences (whether real or simulated) to know what to do. In fact you could argue the younger drivers' training is fresh in their mind.

Newer drivers (note not younger) are potentially more likely to have an incident yes, but that isn't a given. In the Fisherton Tunnel incident it appears the driver did exactly what was expected - I'd expect every driver to do the same with good reactions as that is what they are assessed for and trained to do.

Unless of course you are talking about car drivers in which perhaps I might agree (although off-topic). Although the crash incidence rate is probably something like a bell curve for car drivers.

You cannot beat experience, regardless of age. I'm a newly qualified Signaller and I work alongside colleagues in their 70s with decades of experience. That experience is invaluable and I'm grateful to be able to learn from them day to day

 

[Horizon22]

You cannot beat experience, regardless of age. I'm a newly qualified Signaller and I work alongside colleagues in their 70s with decades of experience. That experience is invaluable and I'm grateful to be able to learn from them day to day

You cannot but the poster talked about trust. I would trust anyone who been 'passed out', assessed as competent and was carrying out the role as expected. Experience is invaluable, but on the flip-side so are younger staff members able to adapt better to new ways of working, new technologies etc. It works both ways; the best teams are a great mix of both younger and more experienced staff and those in between.

 

[bramling]

Absolutely; this isn’t unusual at all. In fact anecdotally it’s becoming more common, as life is getting more and more expensive, and some older drivers continue working in order to assist family members with financial commitments etc.



Certainly not an opinion I can agree with. There may be very good reasons why older drivers need to continue working, or perhaps they simply enjoy the job and find it gives them a purpose in life. So long as they can still do the job to the required standard then good luck to them. Who is anyone else to judge or tell them different?!

Let’s be honest for every driver who continues into the 70s there will be many more who retire earlier than state retirement age.

I'm not sure it's ideal for people to be doing railway roles into their 70s, simply because of the negative effects of shiftwork.

However, it's the individual's free choice and I wouldn't want to take that away from them. Likewise it's possible for people to find sweeter spots - job shares, part-time working, or even simply have a regular changeover which gives them a more routine shift pattern.

I've always said I won't be working full-time past 50, but equally I wouldn't want to pack things in completely.

 

[Nemo01]

You cannot but the poster talked about trust. I would trust anyone who been 'passed out', assessed as competent and was carrying out the role as expected. Experience is invaluable, but on the flip-side so are younger staff members able to adapt better to new ways of working, new technologies etc. It works both ways; the best teams are a great mix of both younger and more experienced staff and those in between.

If you are talking about someone with 10+ years experience Vs newly qualified, I would be more inclined to trust the one with 10+ years experience over the newly qualified.

 

[bramling]

If you are talking about someone with 10+ years experience Vs newly qualified, I would be more inclined to trust the one with 10+ years experience over the newly qualified.

Don't disagree with the gist of this, however it doesn't always hold true. Years of experience doesn't necessarily equal years of good experience. Despite the railway's massive focus on competence assurance, it is possible to go for many years and not get "found out".

 

[dingdinger]

If you're good at your job age is just a number. Young or old.

 

[Nemo01]

Don't disagree with the gist of this, however it doesn't always hold true. Years of experience doesn't necessarily equal years of good experience. Despite the railway's massive focus on competence assurance, it is possible to go for many years and not get "found out".

Of course, there will always be exceptions

 

[berwicksfinest]

Just to chuck in the mix, My FOC you cannot work beyond 65 !!! Couple of our finest didn't want to retire at 65, however they didn't get a say in the matter

 

[Bodiddly]

If you can afford to retire and can't be bothered with the job, you retire.
If you can't afford to retire and can't be bothered, you have to work on.
If you can afford to retire but love the job, as long as you are fit for the role, you work on
If you can't afford to retire and still love the job, wow, you get my utmost respect!

 

[Western Sunset]

State pension doesn't start until you're 66 now.

 

[baz962]

State pension doesn't start until you're 66 now.

If you were born before 5th April 1970 it's 65. 6th April until 5th April 1978 it's 67 . After that it's 68. I wasn't happy when it changed . If I was two weeks older , it would be 65 for me.

 

[Farang]

I was born in 1962. I just used the state pension checker on gov.uk and it told me I'll reach state pension age when I'm 67.