May 2021 Timetable Change

[sufian123]

I would imagine it unlikely as by then the majority of crew will have lost route knowledge. There's also hardly any mention of a Leeds service in the TT, I would be surprised to see that lasting more than a few timetable periods.

Good point.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

A quick question here regarding the Manchester - Bristol/South West Cross-country:

I have noted that it is presently missing from the timetable, but looking at the famous Table 51 in the electronic National Rail Timetable, it would have departed Manchester Pic at xx05, Stockport xx13, Macclesfield xx26, Stoke-on-Trent xx46, Stafford xx03, Wolverhampton xx17, and arriving Birmingham New Street xx33.

Could somebody confirm this? This is because I have noticed at Soho South Jct, the missing XC would be 1 minute after the Wales train has passed.

Also, this missing train does not appear to have been reinstated looking at dates in October.

These won't be running in the May 2021 timetable.

 

[Deafdoggie]

A quick question here regarding the Manchester - Bristol/South West Cross-country:

I have noted that it is presently missing from the timetable, but looking at the famous Table 51 in the electronic National Rail Timetable, it would have departed Manchester Pic at xx05, Stockport xx13, Macclesfield xx26, Stoke-on-Trent xx46, Stafford xx03, Wolverhampton xx17, and arriving Birmingham New Street xx33.

Could somebody confirm this? This is because I have noticed at Soho South Jct, the missing XC would be 1 minute after the Wales train has passed.

Also, this missing train does not appear to have been reinstated looking at dates in October.

Not sure on the others, but it was 44 at Stoke and 02 at Stafford. Fairly sure a 32 arrival into New Street

 

[adrock1976]

These won't be running in the May 2021 timetable.

Not sure on the others, but it was 44 at Stoke and 02 at Stafford. Fairly sure a 32 arrival into New Street

Many thanks.

 

[jfollows]

A quick question here regarding the Manchester - Bristol/South West Cross-country:

I have noted that it is presently missing from the timetable, but looking at the famous Table 51 in the electronic National Rail Timetable, it would have departed Manchester Pic at xx05, Stockport xx13, Macclesfield xx26, Stoke-on-Trent xx46, Stafford xx03, Wolverhampton xx17, and arriving Birmingham New Street xx33.

Could somebody confirm this? This is because I have noticed at Soho South Jct, the missing XC would be 1 minute after the Wales train has passed.

1V51, to take an example at random, 10:05 Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter is 4.5 minutes behind 1I10 10:33 Shrewsbury to Birmingham International at Galton Junction and Soho South Junction in the December 2019 timetable, is that what you wanted?

 

[adrock1976]

1V51, to take an example at random, 10:05 Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter is 4.5 minutes behind 1I10 10:33 Shrewsbury to Birmingham International at Galton Junction and Soho South Junction in the December 2019 timetable, is that what you wanted?

That is helpful.

Thank you very much.

 

[Deerfold]

I would imagine it unlikely as by then the majority of crew will have lost route knowledge. There's also hardly any mention of a Leeds service in the TT, I would be surprised to see that lasting more than a few timetable periods.

That's very odd. As there was no requirement to keep any of these, I assumed there was some commercial reason to, but the fact these trains serve Leeds and Wakefield is hidden away, with no mention of the times at these station.

Either they've changed their minds about how popular they think they'll be or they're planning some other publicity about them.

 

[Ianno87]

That's very odd. As there was no requirement to keep any of these, I assumed there was some commercial reason to, but the fact these trains serve Leeds and Wakefield is hidden away, with no mention of the times at these station.

Either they've changed their minds about how popular they think they'll be or they're planning some other publicity about them.

It will appear in journey planners, and presumably is relatively tactically timed to meet particular period of demand/revenue. I'm not sure they need "publicity*" as such beyond people looking up their journey in NRE and finding it happens to be a convenient train for them.

*Making a big advertising point about a one-way (from south of Derby) once-a-day service would be very odd... (Eurostar's Amsterdam service being an exception)

 

[Deerfold]

It will appear in journey planners, and presumably is relatively tactically timed to meet particular period of demand/revenue. I'm not sure they need "publicity*" as such beyond people looking up their journey in NRE and finding it happens to be a convenient train for them.

*Making a big advertising point about a one-way (from south of Derby) once-a-day service would be very odd... (Eurostar's Amsterdam service being an exception)

There's a difference between not making a big point about a service and not listing its times in your timetables - LNER only has one service a day to/from each of Skipton and Bradford, but the times are in the timetable.

 

[bunnahabhain]

There's a different between not making a big point about a service and not listing its times in your timetables - LNER only has one service a day to/from each of Skipton and Bradford, but the times are in the timetable.

Indeed, check out the Leicester to Cleethorpes timetable, its a bit of a mess and is missing the Intercity services, so if you were working from the paper timetable alone there's a huge gap in trains from Lincoln to Nottingham in the morning!

 

[swt_passenger]

There's a different between not making a big point about a service and not listing its times in your timetables - LNER only has one service a day to/from each of Skipton and Bradford, but the times are in the timetable.

Looking at the key at the front, obviously there’s supposed to be an entry or entries showing “LDS” somewhere in the timetable; and so logically it would go in the appropriate space in the otherwise blank rows “From” (top of grid on southbounds) and ”To” (bottom on northbounds). The print is very light, it’s after the 1632 northbound. But as they‘re the only two I completely missed them on the first search through. Much better to make them bold black.

 

[Deerfold]

Looking at the key at the front, I think there’s supposed to be an entry or entries showing “LDS” somewhere in the timetable; and logically it would go in the appropriate space in the otherwise blank rows “From” (top of grid on southbounds) and ”To” (bottom on northbounds). The print is very light, it’s the 1632 northbound. But as they‘re the only two I completely missed them on first search through...

It took me a while to see them and even when you do, there's no clue as to when you'd arrive at or have to leave Leeds.

Yes, you can look them up online, but if you're already looking at a printed timetable...

 

[berneyarms]

Indeed, check out the Leicester to Cleethorpes timetable, its a bit of a mess and is missing the Intercity services, so if you were working from the paper timetable alone there's a huge gap in trains from Lincoln to Nottingham in the morning!

Given that they are effectively capacity busters between Lincoln and Nottingham, that's pretty bad. How is anyone supposed to know to look elsewhere?

 

[DDB]

I don't think this is the EMR printed timetables team's best work. I assume they haven't had as much time as normal with all the temporary timetables they have had to produce. I really hope that in a few months when it has settled down a bit they can "reprint" them to be better.

Some issues I have noticed.

The London timetables make the extra Bepler stops very hard to find as they are notes indicated with a capital letter above the timetable. Unfortunately rather than colour coding to show when anytime/offpeak/super-offpeak is valid they also use capital lettters.

They do at least have times at least, so maybe they should have done that with the Leeds service.

The extra Belper stops are also missing from the Nottingham to Matlock timetable.

The 2232 from STP on a saturday is showing as calling as Beeston but isn't showing as stopping at Nottingham. Checking a random Saturday on RealTimeTrains shows that it does stop and reverse at Nottingham. If you look in the timetable for the last train on a Saturday night back to Nottingham you will think it is an hour earlier than it actually is.

Attenborough has gone from one service an return an hour to two. But the routes are in two different timetables so there isn't one timetable that tells you all the trains from Attenborogh.

In fact as the cross country services aren't in EMR’s timetable and vice versa there isn't a single timetable that shows all trains between Nottingham and Derby which is a busy comuter route.

 

[Llandudno]

I don't think this is the EMR printed timetables team's best work. I assume they haven't had as much time as normal with all the temporary timetables they have had to produce. I really hope that in a few months when it has settled down a bit they can "reprint" them to be better.

Some issues I have noticed.

The London timetables make the extra Bepler stops very hard to find as they are notes indicated with a capital letter above the timetable. Unfortunately rather than colour coding to show when anytime/offpeak/super-offpeak is valid they also use capital lettters.

They do at least have times at least, so maybe they should have done that with the Leeds service.

The extra Belper stops are also missing from the Nottingham to Matlock timetable.

The 2232 from STP on a saturday is showing as calling as Beeston but isn't showing as stopping at Nottingham. Checking a random Saturday on RealTimeTrains shows that it does stop and reverse at Nottingham. If you look in the timetable for the last train on a Saturday night back to Nottingham you will think it is an hour earlier than it actually is.

Attenborough has gone from one service an return an hour to two. But the routes are in two different timetables so there isn't one timetable that tells you all the trains from Attenborogh.

In fact as the cross country services aren't in EMR’s timetable and vice versa there isn't a single timetable that shows all trains between Nottingham and Derby which is a busy comuter route.

Almost as bad as bus timetables produced by operators that don’t include tendered evening or Sunday journeys on the same route becomes another operator runs them.

You shouldn’t need to look at two separate timetable leaflets in print or online to see all trains between Sheffield and Nottingham for example.

 

[swt_passenger]

Almost as bad as bus timetables produced by operators that don’t include tendered evening or Sunday journeys on the same route becomes another operator runs them.

You shouldn’t need to look at two separate timetable leaflets in print or online to see all trains between Sheffield and Nottingham for example.

I think there’s supposed to be a rule that whoever DfT define as the ‘main operator’ in an area is supposed to include all the others. My local lot, SWR, have always been quite thorough in adding the likes of SN, XC, and GWR where they overlap...

 

[DDB]

I think there’s supposed to be a rule that whoever DfT define as the ‘main operator’ in an area is supposed to include all the others. My local lot, SWR, have always been quite thorough in adding the likes of SN, XC, and GWR where they overlap...

I'm hoping it is a temporary blip caused by late confirmation of everyone's timetables due to COVID. I realy hope they will reissue them in due course rather than wait until the December change.

 

[43055]

Attenborough has gone from one service an return an hour to two. But the routes are in two different timetables so there isn't one timetable that tells you all the trains from Attenborogh.

In fact as the cross country services aren't in EMR’s timetable and vice versa there isn't a single timetable that shows all trains between Nottingham and Derby which is a busy comuter route.

Attenborough is shown in the Crewe - Newark timetable which also shows the Matlock and Leicester services along the common sections.

Also at the front of the Crewe timetable is a section about other operators services and they are not shown due to covid-19. It then lists the LNWR and Northern routes between Stoke and Crewe/Manchester and the website address.

 

[DDB]

Attenborough is shown in the Crewe - Newark timetable which also shows the Matlock and Leicester services along the common sections.

Also at the front of the Crewe timetable is a section about other operators services and they are not shown due to covid-19. It then lists the LNWR and Northern routes between Stoke and Crewe/Manchester and the website address.

You are right. However in my defence I didn't look in the Crewe to Newark Castle timetable for Attenborogh services because the Crewe to Newark Castle trains don't call at Attenborough! That is going to be confusing for people looking for the right timetable.

 

[sammyg901]

The changes to the Chiltern timetable from Monday this week is the new May timetable, so a good move by them to save costs on all the timetable changes and new diagrams that have been taking place recently.
However the rolling stock is still not even at 60% of useage.

Looking at the "commuter" timetable from Bicester Village for example it doesn't look particularly sustainable if volumes return in any form - the morning services call at a lot more stations than pre-covid and there is a gap between 1750 - 1850 northbound. Bicester North is actually back to being the potentially preferable station for my odd day back into the office, depending on loadings / chance to get a seat

 

[javipena82]

The changes to the Chiltern timetable from Monday this week is the new May timetable, so a good move by them to save costs on all the timetable changes and new diagrams that have been taking place recently.
However the rolling stock is still not even at 60% of useage.

Are the loco-hauled sets doing their usual turns, or is it a DMU-only service at present?

Many thanks.

 

[172101]

Are the loco-hauled sets doing their usual turns, or is it a DMU-only service at present?

Many thanks.

No loco hauled now, only one set runs SX only on 2 return Birminghams, with nothing at weekwnds.
Also outside the peak hour and at weekends nearly all the Oxford's have been downgraded to 165's instead of a mix of 168/172's.

Looking at the "commuter" timetable from Bicester Village for example it doesn't look particularly sustainable if volumes return in any form - the morning services call at a lot more stations than pre-covid and there is a gap between 1750 - 1850 northbound. Bicester North is actually back to being the potentially preferable station for my odd day back into the office, depending on loadings / chance to get a seat

This is what the M-F OXF departures from MYB are formed of:
1717 3 car 165
1750 6 car 168
1850 5 car 168
1918 2 car 165
1950 4 car 168

 

[sammyg901]

Looking at the "commuter" timetable from Bicester Village for example it doesn't look particularly sustainable if volumes return in any form - the morning services call at a lot more stations than pre-covid and there is a gap between 1750 - 1850 northbound. Bicester North is actually back to being the potentially preferable station for my odd day back into the office, depending on loadings / chance to get a seat

No loco hauled now, only one set runs SX only on 2 return Birminghams, with nothing at weekwnds.
Also outside the peak hour and at weekends nearly all the Oxford's have been downgraded to 165's instead of a mix of 168/172's.


This is what the M-F OXF departures from MYB are formed of:
1717 3 car 165
1750 6 car 168
1850 5 car 168
1918 2 car 165
1950 4 car 168

Thanks, that is good to know.

The 1918 could get pretty cosy then as it's first call Gerrards Cross & the only (or faster service) to the Gerrards Cross - Bicester stations at that time. If I park at Bicester North instead I can take the 1915 non-stop and get in 20 minutes earlier.

One of the changes that I think may happen is people who only go in for the odd day will be wanting to use an off peak ticket (e.g. for me it's 28.80 instead of 66.90). As you'd only get to your office at 11am you'll want to get a later train back. But Chiltern are usually a pretty well run TOC so I think they'll strengthen where required

 

[Roger Stockman]

Are there any plans for NE/SW XC to stop at Worcestershire Parkway? the local council were hoping that in the future after opening, the paths would be entered for these services to stop rather than run through as they do at the moment.

 

[Watershed]

Are there any plans for NE/SW XC to stop at Worcestershire Parkway? the local council were hoping that in the future after opening, the paths would be entered for these services to stop rather than run through as they do at the moment.

I think it is very unlikely. It's right in the middle of a 100mph section, so it would cost at least 3 or 4 minutes in journey time. When you consider the number of additional passengers who would travel vs the number of passengers whose journey times would be extended, the balance weighs heavily in favour of not stopping there.

 

[The Planner]

Are there any plans for NE/SW XC to stop at Worcestershire Parkway? the local council were hoping that in the future after opening, the paths would be entered for these services to stop rather than run through as they do at the moment.

XC were never going to stop there with the long distance stuff, that was basically known before construction even started.

 

[jonnyfan]

Northern have stated there are going to be reductions to the May 2021 timetable change compared to what is already loaded on the systems

Homepage

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

XC were never going to stop there with the long distance stuff, that was basically known before construction even started.

I do wonder why the local Council persisted in their belief this would be the case, when pretty much everyone else could see that it wouldn’t be. Maybe they expected the DfT to mandate XC to provide a better service?

 

[Watershed]

I do wonder why the local Council persisted in their belief this would be the case, when pretty much everyone else could see that it wouldn’t be. Maybe they expected the DfT to mandate XC to provide a better service?

It's easy for local councils to be overoptimistic. They're not always necessarily knowledgeable about technical railway issues.

 

[Bald Rick]

Politics always trumps reality in the ‘hope’ stage of project development.