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May 2021 Timetable Change

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DDB

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June 21st is looking likely to see a significant cut in EMR Regional services - resourcing issues are making things unworkable with large numbers of unpredictable cancellations so it is being chopped back to allow for route learning and traction training to take place, making things more robust when the timetable returns.
Is there any sign of what the cuts will be and of telling the passengers what the revised timetable is going to be?

Also any idea how long the cuts will last?
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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It absolutely has not been!
The ability to timetable hasn't been and even 2018 that wasn't the issue on GTR it was one of resourcing which is where EMR seem to find themselves although their website is silent. The response to the findings of the numerous enquiries conducted after 2018 was that there was to be Industry Programme Management Office Steering Group to oversee TT changes to make sure that all facets of changes were covered. So in the case of EMR they built a timetable that required additional units from another operator and the crews would potentially need training depending on stock type. AFAIK units from WMT have been on delay for sometime so this was a clear and present risk that should have been factored in for May 21 TT change now they suffer embarrassment of culling the service. However, EMR to date had shown themselves to be good at managing the MML training and timetable change so perhaps there is something deeper here and with DofT in control they aren't allowed to just come out and say why.
 

Failed Unit

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The ability to timetable hasn't been and even 2018 that wasn't the issue on GTR it was one of resourcing which is where EMR seem to find themselves although their website is silent. The response to the findings of the numerous enquiries conducted after 2018 was that there was to be Industry Programme Management Office Steering Group to oversee TT changes to make sure that all facets of changes were covered. So in the case of EMR they built a timetable that required additional units from another operator and the crews would potentially need training depending on stock type. AFAIK units from WMT have been on delay for sometime so this was a clear and present risk that should have been factored in for May 21 TT change now they suffer embarrassment of culling the service. However, EMR to date had shown themselves to be good at managing the MML training and timetable change so perhaps there is something deeper here and with DofT in control they aren't allowed to just come out and say why.
The EMR timetable is not as bad as the GTR shambles from the user point of view. The GTR was all bets are off when you turn up at the station, in fact you were say on the train arrival time came and went and the train got cancelled. My record is was 3 in a row. EMR seem to know the day before what is going to bite the dust so it is mainly failed units the cause the very short term cancellation.

As normal EMR are getting hit because other operators have chosen to purchase new stock. The 170s are late arriving. I am not sure if 15x availability is lower or not, or if the majority of the short forms are 15x covering 170 daigrams.

Some frustrating patterns I can see for local users. Such as Leicester - Lincoln services getting turned at Nottingham. I know it is just the local service between Loughborough and Leicester that are impacted but they can't be happy. The Liverpool - Norwich does stand out. One that I would not have expected, but then if Nottingham train crew need training on the 170s I guess missing crew diagrams appear everywhere. Not sure if the significant ramp up in trains isn't helping when you consider the "Covid removals" are all back in the timetable.
 

LowLevel

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The EMR timetable is not as bad as the GTR shambles from the user point of view. The GTR was all bets are off when you turn up at the station, in fact you were say on the train arrival time came and went and the train got cancelled. My record is was 3 in a row. EMR seem to know the day before what is going to bite the dust so it is mainly failed units the cause the very short term cancellation.

As normal EMR are getting hit because other operators have chosen to purchase new stock. The 170s are late arriving. I am not sure if 15x availability is lower or not, or if the majority of the short forms are 15x covering 170 daigrams.

Some frustrating patterns I can see for local users. Such as Leicester - Lincoln services getting turned at Nottingham. I know it is just the local service between Loughborough and Leicester that are impacted but they can't be happy. The Liverpool - Norwich does stand out. One that I would not have expected, but then if Nottingham train crew need training on the 170s I guess missing crew diagrams appear everywhere. Not sure if the significant ramp up in trains isn't helping when you consider the "Covid removals" are all back in the timetable.
Nottingham Depot has had the most problems of late (things like COVID isolation notifications for drivers and guards having a bit of a spike recently, mainly related to their kids I think) but Boston and Norwich have also had short notice availability problems.

Resourcing is tight enough that if you get a driver go off with an hour or two notice the whole diagram will probably be cancelled which further displaces units and other crews so it snowballs - at least if you have a driver but not a guard you can shift the train.

The other problem being availability of trained 170 drivers giving problems using them on many routes - things like Nottingham to Worksop and Leicester are core routes for various links, some who have knowledge and some who don't and therefore finding a whole 170 diagram that can be fit to traction knowledge is hard. Most guards now sign them except for Norwich bar a few individuals who missed their training slot for various reasons who are now being mopped up.

There is also a depot driver shortage at Nottingham meaning it is hard to get units prepped and into service from the depot.

This all puts pressure on the 15x fleet which is already very elderly and creaking with quite a few in service failures of late.

The timetable itself is a bit of a mess with lots of squeezed running time that makes it difficult to maintain time and recover delays - recovery time on single track routes like Nottingham to Skegness and Worksop has been chopped so once you're late, you stay late, with 2 minutes diagrammed for stops including a crew change or minimum turnaround times also not helping, or stupid issues to fit planning rules like the morning Derby to Sheffield train that calls at Belper to get college kids to Chesterfield no longer stopping at Chesterfield, or a morning down Robin Hood that is very busy trundling non stop through Hucknall at 20 mph to tick a box.

Hopefully there will be a good look at all of these issues because at the moment it is a nightmare for all concerned.
 

Failed Unit

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Nottingham Depot has had the most problems of late (things like COVID isolation notifications for drivers and guards having a bit of a spike recently, mainly related to their kids I think) but Boston and Norwich have also had short notice availability problems.

Resourcing is tight enough that if you get a driver go off with an hour or two notice the whole diagram will probably be cancelled which further displaces units and other crews so it snowballs - at least if you have a driver but not a guard you can shift the train.

The other problem being availability of trained 170 drivers giving problems using them on many routes - things like Nottingham to Worksop and Leicester are core routes for various links, some who have knowledge and some who don't and therefore finding a whole 170 diagram that can be fit to traction knowledge is hard. Most guards now sign them except for Norwich bar a few individuals who missed their training slot for various reasons who are now being mopped up.

There is also a depot driver shortage at Nottingham meaning it is hard to get units prepped and into service from the depot.

This all puts pressure on the 15x fleet which is already very elderly and creaking with quite a few in service failures of late.

The timetable itself is a bit of a mess with lots of squeezed running time that makes it difficult to maintain time and recover delays - recovery time on single track routes like Nottingham to Skegness and Worksop has been chopped so once you're late, you stay late, with 2 minutes diagrammed for stops including a crew change or minimum turnaround times also not helping, or stupid issues to fit planning rules like the morning Derby to Sheffield train that calls at Belper to get college kids to Chesterfield no longer stopping at Chesterfield, or a morning down Robin Hood that is very busy trundling non stop through Hucknall at 20 mph to tick a box.

Hopefully there will be a good look at all of these issues because at the moment it is a nightmare for all concerned.
It looks like a total nightmare to plan to be honest, not sure how they will change it next year but at Lincoln you are getting Peterborough - Leicester / Newark services (not a problem in itself) but they are importing delays. The timetable is showing them as separate trains for some reason (Peterborough - Lincoln then Lincoln - Leicester) but with only 3 minutes between them.

This part I was a little surprised about as I was expecting them to try and clockface as many routes as they could.

But I am seeing exactly what you have said, a drive and guard at Lincoln but no train as it couldn't get from Nottingham as it had no crew at that point. I know the Lincolnshire fleet has always "got around" in terms of intermingling the routes.

The COVID part is unfortunate, but as cases are rising generally I am sure the resultant bubbles forcing people off work will get higher.
 

Bald Rick

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AIUI there are more than enough EMR drivers trained on 170s. And EMR have enough units. The issue is largely specific to Nottingham Depot - the main line is largely unaffected. I also suspect the ongoing dispute is a factor.
 

LowLevel

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AIUI there are more than enough EMR drivers trained on 170s. And EMR have enough units. The issue is largely specific to Nottingham Depot - the main line is largely unaffected. I also suspect the ongoing dispute is a factor.

The guards dispute is having little impact on services except Sundays. Despite the fact that Nottingham guards depot doesn't have a roster which makes things a bit of a pain in the backside away from the sabre rattling between union reps and senior management it's largely business as usual - whenever I've been involved in previous disputes it's been more of a hot war with both sides invoking specific T&Cs and plenty of disruption arising, whereas this time from what I can tell most guards and the train crew management are actually doing their best to be flexible to run services, not withstanding the Stagecoach created dispute over imposition of contractual terms. Sundays were imposed at gunpoint by Stagecoach on guards and they moved the goal posts again many years later, so at the moment the guards are putting themselves back where they were in 2008 before that happened and not working Sundays. For the most part, except where Liverpool diversions are involved, the management are managing to cover most turns.

170 competency is definitely a problem as is route knowledge, both centred on Nottingham drivers. The depot manager has recently put out a publication indicating steps to be taken to try and resolve this. In theory, there are probably enough drivers. In practice, having one go sick and finding your service recovery bod is in the wrong link and can't drive them causes a multitude of problems, whereas anyone can drive a 15x. Same comes for depot drivers when you realise you haven't got one competent to shift a unit is in the way and have to beg a nearby competent mainline driver to help out.

Plenty of people are working at all levels to try and sort it out but I think it is fair to say things are wearing a bit thin. Certainly I have never been so fed up.
 

Tomnick

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AIUI there are more than enough EMR drivers trained on 170s. And EMR have enough units. The issue is largely specific to Nottingham Depot - the main line is largely unaffected. I also suspect the ongoing dispute is a factor.
It depends on how you define "enough"! X drivers to cover Y diagrams sounds good in theory, but most of those X drivers will have booked jobs that they don't have to move from, or might be needed to cover other gaps if they're struggling for route knowledge - in an ideal world, etc.!
 

Failed Unit

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It depends on how you define "enough"! X drivers to cover Y diagrams sounds good in theory, but most of those X drivers will have booked jobs that they don't have to move from, or might be needed to cover other gaps if they're struggling for route knowledge - in an ideal world, etc.!
That is what hit GTR lots when the 700s were introduced. I nice 700 sat on a platform and the driver booked to run the service didn't sign it. Train cancelled then chaos as the driver that was to relieve them at the other end of the route did sign the 700 but the train was still in Brighton.
 

yorksrob

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It's nice to see some semblance of a timetable return West of Skipton. It's just a shame that the crucial 10:19 departure from Leeds towards Morecambe is still missing.
 

dk1

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On the GEML both the 17:30 & 18:30 Liverpool St to Norwich (SX) will have their pick-up only restriction removed to allow them to set down as well. It was only a matter of time as it was obvious with the reduced peak timetable this was going to cause problems. I’m just surprised it’s taken a whole month.
 

86246

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On the GEML both the 17:30 & 18:30 Liverpool St to Norwich (SX) will have their pick-up only restriction removed to allow them to set down as well. It was only a matter of time as it was obvious with the reduced peak timetable this was going to cause problems. I’m just surprised it’s taken a whole month.
That must be the Colchester pick up only. I was surprised when I saw that in the timetable.

Was it that the Colchester passengers were travelling regardless or overcrowding on over services causing an issue ?
 

dk1

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That must be the Colchester pick up only. I was surprised when I saw that in the timetable.

Was it that the Colchester passengers were travelling regardless or overcrowding on over services causing an issue ?
Possibly but it was always going to be a complete farce. Fine in normal times or when the 17:30 is first stop Manningtree. Talk about rubbing salt in. At least common sense prevails.
 

David Goddard

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Table 117 in the up direction from NR download misses almost all trains other than those starting at Heathrow! Down looks ok. Needs to do rather better.
Looking at the table this is probably driven by the omission of Reading from the grid. The Maidenhead starters are shown correctly.
1623350514306.png
 

86246

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Possibly but it was always going to be a complete farce. Fine in normal times or when the 17:30 is first stop Manningtree. Talk about rubbing salt in. At least common sense prevails.

Presumably the 17:30 first stop Manningtree is a legacy of the 17:27 boat train during the Anglia days that stopped only at Colchester which waited for the 17:30 to pass.
 

dk1

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Presumably the 17:30 first stop Manningtree is a legacy of the 17:27 boat train during the Anglia days that stopped only at Colchester which waited for the 17:30 to pass.
Also because it would have been severely overloaded calling Colchester. There was a timetable when it didn’t wait to pass & sat outside before crawling behind. Really annoyed me.
 

ainsworth74

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I think we can probably bring this thread to a close here as the May 2021 timetable change has been and gone :)
 
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