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Memories of PT Travel

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Gloster

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I think it's only in the past few years that the US Government paid its last Civil War pension!
Helen Jackson, believed to be the last widow of a US Civil War veteran died on December 16 last year (2020). Yes, you read that correctly.

The last pensioner was Irene Triplett, the daughter of a Civil War veteran, who died on May 31 last year.
 
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Ploughman

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Then there were the Duty Passes on Green Cards emblazoned with All Stations Eastern, Midland, Western and Southern.
Sometimes just one region or two , but the one I was normally issued with, was the 4 listed above.
Meant I could take any train, no restrictions and whatever route I wanted.
For example York - London K C, Paddington - Chippenham my destination - Bristol - York
Any time I returned through KC and the queues were long, just flashed my pass and asked to make an internal phone call from just inside the barriers. Made a bluff call and sauntered down the platform about 5 mins before the gates opened.
 

Cheshire Scot

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When BR was privatised, it was something like clerical staff graded CO1 - CO5 got standard class travel with a priv card having up to 20 boxes to be dated (the actual number depended upon length of service) Management grade MS1 got first class travel with a card with twenty boxes, and this also applied to MS2s up to a certain salary; MS2s above that salary and MS3s got a Blue Status Pass, and this continued to be regional specific even after regions were abandoned. Management grades MS4 and MS5, and executive grades EG1 and EG2 got Silver Status passes which were all stations and some CalMac Clyde ships, and then EG3s and above got Gold Status passes. Family members got matching travel benefits up as far as MS2s without Status Passes, but families of MS2s to MS5s with Status Passes "only" had priv cards, but families of EG graded staff had Silver or Gold passes to match the employee's.
At privatisation the grade required for First Class had already risen beyond MS1, and I am fairly sure beyond MS2 also, as I know to my cost as each time I got promotion I was about six months behind the date at which my new grade would have qualified First Class. I can't recall exact dates of subsequent promotions other than was appointed to my first MS1 post in 1991, I am pretty sure I had reached MS2 before privatisation but despite then fairly soon advancing to MS3 I never reached the threshold for First Class.
I only came across one person who had a metal fob rather than a credit card type pass. I can't remember when it happened, but Executives were previously called Senior Officers and graded S01 upwards accordingly; the guy who had a fob had been a SO before they became EGs, so perhaps he got it at that time
I recall a tale of a Guard who on encountering a metal fob pass said 'I want to see your ticket not your jewellery'. I cannot vouch for the truth of this tale!
 

furnessvale

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At privatisation the grade required for First Class had already risen beyond MS1, and I am fairly sure beyond MS2 also, as I know to my cost as each time I got promotion I was about six months behind the date at which my new grade would have qualified First Class. I can't recall exact dates of subsequent promotions other than was appointed to my first MS1 post in 1991, I am pretty sure I had reached MS2 before privatisation but despite then fairly soon advancing to MS3 I never reached the threshold for First Class.

I recall a tale of a Guard who on encountering a metal fob pass said 'I want to see your ticket not your jewellery'. I cannot vouch for the truth of this tale!
I attained first class travel as an MS1 in 1973 in my early 20s. The sight of a scruffy rock climber who had not seen soap for several days often had the "chef de train" or "Schaffner" dashing for his mates before tackling me for a ticket check!
 

Peterthegreat

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At privatisation the grade required for First Class had already risen beyond MS1, and I am fairly sure beyond MS2 also, as I know to my cost as each time I got promotion I was about six months behind the date at which my new grade would have qualified First Class. I can't recall exact dates of subsequent promotions other than was appointed to my first MS1 post in 1991, I am pretty sure I had reached MS2 before privatisation but despite then fairly soon advancing to MS3 I never reached the threshold for First Class.

I recall a tale of a Guard who on encountering a metal fob pass said 'I want to see your ticket not your jewellery'. I cannot vouch for the truth of this tale!
By privatisation first class entitlement had risen to MS4.
 

Cheshire Scot

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Then there were the Duty Passes on Green Cards emblazoned with All Stations Eastern, Midland, Western and Southern.
As most in our section were sufficiently up the ladder to hold Status passes, we minions providing support to them had the use of 'Bearer' duty passes endorsed something along the lines of 'Valid in First Class when accompanying the holder of a First Class pass'. The only occasion I was able to avail myself of this facility was a return trip from Watford Jn to Hemel, first class in 2 + 2 seating!, not even 'proper' first class to me.
 
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I attained first class travel as an MS1 in 1973 in my early 20s. The sight of a scruffy rock climber who had not seen soap for several days often had the "chef de train" or "Schaffner" dashing for his mates before tackling me for a ticket check!

I was in my twenties when I got first class travel too, and I found that I often got singled out if I was waring jeans; it was particularly noticeable in an open coach - walk by everybody else and then stop and ask to see my ticket (often with a loud voice!)

I also remembering getting on a Glasgow bound train at Tamworth with my family one morning and I had a Silver Pass by that time; the guard came along and snarled "don't you know this is first class?" I replied that I did, showed him my pass - and he became very apologetic all of a sudden!
 

6Gman

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I attained first class travel as an MS1 in 1973 in my early 20s. The sight of a scruffy rock climber who had not seen soap for several days often had the "chef de train" or "Schaffner" dashing for his mates before tackling me for a ticket check!
In the Computer Bureau at Crewe it seemed even the tea lady was MS1 ! There were some very young staff who qualified for both First Class and the unlimited regional pass.

Mildly irritated us "proper" railwaymen! ;)
 

Cheshire Scot

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I was in my twenties when I got first class travel too, and I found that I often got singled out if I was wearing jeans; it was particularly noticeable in an open coach - walk by everybody else and then stop and ask to see my ticket (often with a loud voice!)
I also recall waiting for a train immediately post privatisation with a group of colleagues all in reasonably smart attire as we were on a business trip when one of our number disappeared. As we boarded the second class portion of the train we spied him emerging from the gents, having changed into casual attire, so that he could pretend he was off duty and use his First Class Status Pass which was not allowed for Duty journeys post privatisation although often abused.
 

furnessvale

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In the Computer Bureau at Crewe it seemed even the tea lady was MS1 ! There were some very young staff who qualified for both First Class and the unlimited regional pass.

Mildly irritated us "proper" railwaymen! ;)
This "tea lady" built the bridges and track you "proper" railwaymen swanned about on!:D
 
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As most in our section were sufficiently up the ladder to hold Status passes, we minions providing support to them had the use of 'Bearer' duty passes endorsed something along the lines of 'Valid in First Class when accompanying the holder of a First Class pass'. The only occasion I was able to avail myself of this facility was a return trip from Watford Jn to Hemel, first class in 2 + 2 seating!, not even 'proper' first class to me.

I'd forgotten about those; but wasn't the endorsement more restrictive that you've suggested? Wasn't there something about the First Class pass holder being on duty?
 

ChiefPlanner

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As a trainee (!979) we were give standard class all lines Passes , to encourage familiarisation of the network - some (not mine) were stamped "valid also in brake vans and rear cabs")
 
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By privatisation first class entitlement had risen to MS4.
Were there some "grandfather rights" whereby, say, somebody who'd got first class as an MS1 got a regional pass in accordance with the rules when they became an MS1?

I finished in March 1996, and although there were some "loud" people in the office, I can't remember any complaining about missing out on free travel benefits
 

Cheshire Scot

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I'd forgotten about those; but wasn't the endorsement more restrictive that you've suggested? Wasn't there something about the First Class pass holder being on duty?
There may well have been, that would make sense, but many years have passed since I saw that in print. Probably something like 'accompanying the holder of a First Class Duty Pass' - use of a duty pass implied being on duty and they were endorsed 'for duty purposes only' or similar.
 

CEN60

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I had the joy of the following conversation from a guard on the Dingwall Kyle run when trying to buy a PT from Plockton to Kyle on board :- Guard "By the time I find that on my ticket machine we will be there!!!!" - Me "I need a ticket for the return trip though" - Guard "Who do you think is the guard on the return train!!!!"

Now I am fortunate to have a "Silver Status Pass" - which the ticket office clerk in Kyle asked me if she could borrow to show to some of the others so they knew what it was!!!

Were there some "grandfather rights" whereby, say, somebody who'd got first class as an MS1 got a regional pass in accordance with the rules when they became an MS1?

I finished in March 1996, and although there were some "loud" people in the office, I can't remember any complaining about missing out on free travel benefits
That is correct - I worked with someone who at Privatisation was an MS1 and he had a Blue Scottish Regional Pass which he kept during his employment in the privatised sector (but had to have unbroken service to keep it until he retired) - I had to achieve MS4 equivalence before I got a Silver Status from the "pool" the company had (and what a fight to get it - as the HR in the company that took us over didn't understand it - but got it in the end.)
 
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pitdiver

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I have a PTAC issued by tfl. This was issued as part of my package when I took voluntary redundancy/ early retirement. I also have one for my wife. I have had a couple of interesting experiences with it and one exceptional incident. My wife and I went up to Fort William on the sleeper and stayed for a couple of nights. We went to the booking office at Fort William and asked for two Priv returns to Mallaig. When I asked the BC if sees many TfL issued PTACs he said "Quite a few". The service up to FW was 57 mins late arriving there. I thought should I apply for Delay Pay. I did and got 50% of my PRIV fare back.
The other incident was i had to go into the ticket office at Worksop to buy a ticket to Mansfield. When I showed my PTAC I was asked "Can I show this to my colleague as we don't see many of these up here this will be the first for her".
 

6Gman

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I have a PTAC issued by tfl. This was issued as part of my package when I took voluntary redundancy/ early retirement. I also have one for my wife. I have had a couple of interesting experiences with it and one exceptional incident. My wife and I went up to Fort William on the sleeper and stayed for a couple of nights. We went to the booking office at Fort William and asked for two Priv returns to Mallaig. When I asked the BC if sees many TfL issued PTACs he said "Quite a few". The service up to FW was 57 mins late arriving there. I thought should I apply for Delay Pay. I did and got 50% of my PRIV fare back.
The other incident was i had to go into the ticket office at Worksop to buy a ticket to Mansfield. When I showed my PTAC I was asked "Can I show this to my colleague as we don't see many of these up here this will be the first for her".
Switching that first story around completely I once struggled to get through the barrier with my PT dated box at Kentish Town as the guy claimed he'd never seen one before !
 

Bald Rick

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I believe the reverse of the card is standard for 1st or Standard class travel, so are there still some people alive using ex GWR conditions?

And, of course, a GWR employee might have wed a much younger wife later in life who would have continued to qualify.

I know someone who is the widow of an ex GWR employee. He started work in the war, retired in the late 80s, but died many years ago. However his wife retains the travel facilities and I’m reasonably sure there are some ex GWR specific elements.




At privatisation the grade required for First Class had already risen beyond MS1, and I am fairly sure beyond MS2 also, as I know to my cost as each time I got promotion I was about six months behind the date at which my new grade would have qualified First Class. I can't recall exact dates of subsequent promotions other than was appointed to my first MS1 post in 1991, I am pretty sure I had reached MS2 before privatisation but despite then fairly soon advancing to MS3 I never reached the threshold for First Class.

I recall a tale of a Guard who on encountering a metal fob pass said 'I want to see your ticket not your jewellery'. I cannot vouch for the truth of this tale!

I attained first class travel as an MS1 in 1973 in my early 20s. The sight of a scruffy rock climber who had not seen soap for several days often had the "chef de train" or "Schaffner" dashing for his mates before tackling me for a ticket check!

Yep similar for me, slouching in a first class coach in an IC train (at origin point) in scruffy jeans, football shirt, and an obviously large hangover on any given Saturday morning would rarely fail to bring out the Senior Conductor before departure.
 

Merle Haggard

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The railway was militaristic; as well as having Senior Officers, canteens in headquarter offices were called messes!

At 222 there were two adjacent lavatory doors, one labelled 'OFFICERS' and one 'GENTLEMEN'. Grades above MS5 were Senior Officer (?or Senior Manager?) and Senior Executive grades. Presumably only these grades could use the Officers lavatory. And by inference you couldn't be both :lol:

There were several different messes by grade; the more senior ones had waitress service and wine (later withdrawn). In my early days there as a lowly MS I enquired of a rather short man whether I was in the right queue and mentioned my grade. I'm 6' + tall, but, when explaining I wasn't senior enough for that mess, he still stooped when addressing me to make sure I know I was inferior.

I worked with several ex G.W. men. One of them was a CO4 with first class travel on the ex GW; he was also in the GWR Pension Fund, which had been closed to new entrants long before. However, the surpluses were mounting up, and this was redistributed to the shrinking number of members.
 

6Gman

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At 222 there were two adjacent lavatory doors, one labelled 'OFFICERS' and one 'GENTLEMEN'. Grades above MS5 were Senior Officer (?or Senior Manager?) and Senior Executive grades. Presumably only these grades could use the Officers lavatory. And by inference you couldn't be both :lol:

There were several different messes by grade; the more senior ones had waitress service and wine (later withdrawn). In my early days there as a lowly MS I enquired of a rather short man whether I was in the right queue and mentioned my grade. I'm 6' + tall, but, when explaining I wasn't senior enough for that mess, he still stooped when addressing me to make sure I know I was inferior.

I worked with several ex G.W. men. One of them was a CO4 with first class travel on the ex GW; he was also in the GWR Pension Fund, which had been closed to new entrants long before. However, the surpluses were mounting up, and this was redistributed to the shrinking number of members.
I recall getting my annual pensions summary, probably around the late 1980s and - on reading the small print on page n - discovering that the LB & SCR Pension Fund was still in existence!
 

WesternLancer

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I recall getting my annual pensions summary, probably around the late 1980s and - on reading the small print on page n - discovering that the LB & SCR Pension Fund was still in existence!
Were these funds not merged into one large general railway pension fund on nationalisation then? Presumably not (would that be because they had to finance differing benefits that dated back to the private companies?).

Presumably at least in the days before the grouping it would have been rare for companies in general (outside the railway I mean) to offer occupational pensions at all?
 

6Gman

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Were these funds not merged into one large general railway pension fund on nationalisation then? Presumably not (would that be because they had to finance differing benefits that dated back to the private companies?).

Presumably at least in the days before the grouping it would have been rare for companies in general (outside the railway I mean) to offer occupational pensions at all?
I suspect the pension funds would only have been for senior, white-collar roles. I think the difficulties with rolling them into one pot would be different benefit levels and different levels of assets.


But I'm no expert!
 

Grumpy

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Regarding continental free travel, there used to be a travel company called Martin Rooks (later Panorama) who provided holidays specifically for BR staff so that they could use their travel concessions; in the days before budget airlines, it was a tremendous benefit
Indeed. There was also an organisation called" The British Railwaymen's Touring Club"( or something very similar) which organised foreign holidays
 

lincolnshire

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I remember been asked at Hull Paragon station when they was having a ticket barrier check by revenue protection staff from elsewhere why I hadn,t filled the date in on my priv. box? when I had purchased a priv. ticket. I had to explain to him that you only date boxes when travelling for free as against buying a priv. ticket it goes to show the training left a lot to be desired.

Since its only staff employed pre privatization, I do wonder that these days that instead of boxes to date why we are just not given a free ticket to travel as the number of people eligible gets less and less each year as ex-staff get older and don,t use or even want to use there passes. Even when I was at work there was very few staff staff who made full use of there passes each year.
If you removed priv. fares how much money in total would the TOC,s losses be in a year? a lot less than you would think.
A pass that could be used to open ticket barriers would be useful instead of having to wait for someone to open the barrier for you to be let through. If travel became free for
 

CW2

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When I was a booking office clerk at Hadley Wood in the early 1980s, one of the elderly local residents was a former railway officer who presented me with his "Gold Coin" to examine. Only time I've ever seen one. All stations first class and sleepers and ships, if I recall correctly.
 

Mag_seven

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I was once told by an old railway hand that there was an "All Stations FIP" pass that a very limited number of very senior BR executives had.
 

furnessvale

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Indeed. There was also an organisation called" The British Railwaymen's Touring Club"( or something very similar) which organised foreign holidays
Yes, I used all those agents at various times. You just couldn't find the hotels any cheaper than they could, including on one occasion a 4 star hotel in Davos for peanuts.

In the evenings, I would always make a point of telling the others, sometimes including the courier, where I had been that day. They would have a good holiday, taking in more unusual sights, but always a day behind me, leaving me in peace.
 
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CyrusWuff

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I was once told by an old railway hand that there was an "All Stations FIP" pass that a very limited number of very senior BR executives had.
Such a thing still exists, though it's now known as a Galaxy Pass. For GB Domestic purposes they're treated as being equivalent to a Gold Status Pass.
 

WesternLancer

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I suspect the pension funds would only have been for senior, white-collar roles. I think the difficulties with rolling them into one pot would be different benefit levels and different levels of assets.


But I'm no expert!
Thanks - that does sound plausible!

Indeed. There was also an organization called" The British Railwaymen's Touring Club"( or something very similar) which organised foreign holidays
The Touring Club features in this very enjoyable book:
 
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