py_megapixel
Established Member
Hardly an insurmountable problem - they just need to give them a wash! (Or a repaint, if there's actual damage rather than just a layer of dirt)
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Metrolink M5000 Fleet Status
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Are the M5000 trams painted or do they have vinyl applications, as is the case with some trains?
They expect them to run around Greater Manchester all day every day carrying some 44 million passengers a year!
Is it, or have other liveries just not lasted this long without being repainted?
The yellow is likely paint from the factory but the grey could be anything.
All 507s and 508s are all over vinyl and all except 507002 and 508111 are yellow on one side and grey on the other. It’s not a particularly effective livery given how few people seem to have noticed!
Compare pictures of them after 10 years in original (blue and grey!) livery circa 1988-91 ish and also 2013 just before receiving the current vinyl. They were definitely looking faded. That said the current vinyl doesn’t look too bad after almost 10 years.
How often do they get a wash? The 507/508s received a repaint after about 10 years, some in more BR blue and some in yellow of all colours! Later they of course came up with this vinyl idea.
It's just dirty to be fair, most of which appears to be from the overhead line. It's probably been the inner end of a double unit for a few weeks and not been cleaned when it was split.
To be fair, from what I saw on Monday the 507/508 fleet isn't much cleaner externally at the moment (most had water staining down the driver's side front from the windscreen washer), and the vinyl livery on those isn't as old as the paintwork on 3025.
Regarding the paint, the only vinyl on an M5000 is the dots, numbers and Metrolink branding, everything else yellow or silver is painted. They get washed every night in theory (providing the wash plants are working and they're not coming in from Rochdale to QRD and Altrincham to TD) but the wash plants aren't particularly effective when it comes to the cab ends due to the tapered shape. The cab ends are usually hand washed.
The oldest ones are rapidly approaching mid-life (3001-3006 being delivered in 2009) so hopefully they'll get a good going over then.
To be fair, from what I saw on Monday the 507/508 fleet isn't much cleaner externally at the moment (most had water staining down the driver's side front from the windscreen washer), and the vinyl livery on those isn't as old as the paintwork on 3025.
Regarding the paint, the only vinyl on an M5000 is the dots, numbers and Metrolink branding, everything else yellow or silver is painted. They get washed every night in theory (providing the wash plants are working and they're not coming in from Rochdale to QRD and Altrincham to TD) but the wash plants aren't particularly effective when it comes to the cab ends due to the tapered shape. The cab ends are usually hand washed.
The oldest ones are rapidly approaching mid-life (3001-3006 being delivered in 2009) so hopefully they'll get a good going over then.
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sjm77
Member
I noticed since the start of the pandemic that you often see the trams much dirtier than we did before. I presumed they were spending more time cleaning inside at the expense of outside which would be reasonable.
Do we know what the "Roof repairs" actually entail? Sounds rather severe with it causing the trams to be out of service for months at a time, presumably the one that has been out of use for well over a year has been a well used spares donor. Makes me wonder if its equiptment on top of the roof or the actual roof structure.
During overnight checks, 43 trams have found to have damage, so for the foreseeable future, it’s a Sunday service on all lines:
Do we have a list of the affected trams or any idea what the “infrastructure fault” could have been. A lot of track is being renewed currently isn’t it, so if it is track related it may rectify itself within 2 weeks.
If 43 trams have been affected, is it more likely that the offending wire is in the core section or one of the extremities?
sjm77
Member
It would point away from the core sections, unless of course it took several trips through the offending section before any damage becomes visible! It would be very helpful if only 3001 - 3060 were affected as this would limit the search to the Alty line! Could depot allocation of the trams affected help narrow the search at all?
More worryingly, if the offending wire is not found soon then more trams will need to be taken out of service each day.
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But the more trams are damaged, a larger batch of spare parts will need to be manufactured, leading to a lower repair cost overall, however if the trams are out of service in a queue to be repaired…
The issue was with damaged pantograph carbons on sets from both depots.
All are being inspected and those that require new carbons are being so fitted.
I don’t believe the problem section has yet been identified, but circumstances would point to somewhere within the core.
All are being inspected and those that require new carbons are being so fitted.
I don’t believe the problem section has yet been identified, but circumstances would point to somewhere within the core.
Given that there is already a planned closure coming up very soon, could this time be taken determining the cause of the problem?
Possibly. I suspect inspections have already taken place, and the problem will probably be found this evening.
A couple of M5000s are supposed to be being fitted with OHLE monitoring equipment (we have a pantograph scanner called PantoBot at Deansgate Castlefield). Today’s incident may well speed that up.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
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Did wonder why I've barely seen any doubles recently.
You could just about run a normal service with 43 out, only extremely few doubles.
You could just about run a normal service with 43 out, only extremely few doubles.
py_megapixel
Established Member
If that was true then surely with normal fleet availability every service would be a double.
TfGM made a big fanfare a few weeks ago about going to a 6-minute frequency across most lines - how many days has this actually been achieved? I know there was at least one weekend where they had to go back to 12min because of staff shortages.
sjm77
Member
Actually most weekdays from July 5th to July 23rd! Yesterday was the only day with major difficulties!
No you can’t. Not even close. 53 sets go off Trafford Depot alone, only 8 of those were doubles pre-covid. Then there’s another 30 or so off Queens Rd.
You haven’t seen many doubles because we’ve gone back to a 6 minute service and all the doubles that were in use for the 10/20 minute service have had to be split.
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TfGM Interim director interviewed on BBC Radio Manchester Tuesday morning suggested that trams will revert to every 12 minutes for August - presume this means no Altrincham / Bury directs or Shaw / East Didsbury or Media City / Etihad lines working?
He claimed Staff absence is running at 16% drivers self-isolating
Planned engineering sees the city centre tracks closed this Saturday and no trams serving Piccadilly/ Victoria Sunday to Thursday next week
He claimed Staff absence is running at 16% drivers self-isolating
Planned engineering sees the city centre tracks closed this Saturday and no trams serving Piccadilly/ Victoria Sunday to Thursday next week
Gostav
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Maybe they should order 4-car trams in future, on Tuesday l found the trams on St Peter’s Square were very full.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I think (like many) that's what will happen when it comes time to replace the M5000s.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
Well fair play I stayed in Manchester on Friday night and for the first and hopefully last time ever I can honestly say the tram was an absolute farce. Wasn't even aware of the works on the Eccles line so that was my own fault for not checking however I do feel Metrolink made things quite difficult.
So the Eccles Line being closed wasn't an issue for me as I was staying in MediaCity so I got the tram to IWM North and walked over the bridge. Obviously that required a change at Cornbrook but that was fine. A few odd situations happened in the evening though; signalling problems led to me sitting on the tram at the Trafford Centre for a good half an hour and then when I switched onto a Rochdale service at Cornbrook which was supposed to run via Exchange Square we went via Market Street instead. Bit annoying as I wanted to get off by Selfridges but not exactly far to walk from Market Street; wouldn't have been ideal for the elderly/disabled/people with luggage however without having to go onto Victoria and go back to Exchange Square, especially as there were quite large gaps in services by this point. In the evening I did opt to get the replacement bus from Piccadilly straight to Broadway and the driver she was very friendly and helpful, directing people where they needed to go. I know Manchester off the back of my hand anyway. It only took about 20 minutes which is on par with the tram but that was only because it was very quiet, eerily so for a Friday night at 11.30pm out of Piccadilly (despite the queues for Revs and the bars under Deansgate being literally at pre-COVID levels; quite eye opening but relieving to see normality!).
Now yesterday (31st) there was a closure in the city centre which meant that trams were only running to either Monsall or Queens Road I believe and Deansgate. Obviously Stagecoach were providing the rail replacement and they were frequent enough, but as I had a lot of luggage with me I was concerned it would be a faff so I walked over to IWM and got the tram to Cornbrook. Was hoping that as services were only running to Deansgate anyway that Trafford Centre services would have been extended from Cornbrook, but alas they weren't. Switched at Cornbrook for the next tram onto Deansgate, and then hoped that there was a train to Piccadilly to save me carting all my luggage down to the bus stops outside Deansgate onto the replacement buses, but when I got there the next train wasn't for another 40 minutes! Would have been handy if Northern stopped a few extra services at Deansgate yesterday but I guess it isn't their problem, especially as buses were running but it's always a faff. In the end I got the bus to Piccadilly and surprisingly didn't take as long as I thought.
One really obvious problem, which has obviously already been mentioned, was the lack of double trams, only observed five each day but obviously am aware of the faults at the moment on the fleet. I do question, however, whether even with the faults on the fleet, that more doubles could have been available due to the engineering works, as some services were really struggling, but I guess there was probably displacement of trams. Also wonder whether Trafford Centre services could have been extended to Deansgate, but again I guess it's down to capacity issues as Altrincham, East Didsbury and Airport services are all there too. I noticed that trams must have been reversing near St Peter's Square or on the ramp down to it from Deansgate, as when my tram terminated I expected it to just remain in the platform and go back out, but it continued to depart towards SPS.
All in all, a great visit, but will definitely double check plans next time!
So the Eccles Line being closed wasn't an issue for me as I was staying in MediaCity so I got the tram to IWM North and walked over the bridge. Obviously that required a change at Cornbrook but that was fine. A few odd situations happened in the evening though; signalling problems led to me sitting on the tram at the Trafford Centre for a good half an hour and then when I switched onto a Rochdale service at Cornbrook which was supposed to run via Exchange Square we went via Market Street instead. Bit annoying as I wanted to get off by Selfridges but not exactly far to walk from Market Street; wouldn't have been ideal for the elderly/disabled/people with luggage however without having to go onto Victoria and go back to Exchange Square, especially as there were quite large gaps in services by this point. In the evening I did opt to get the replacement bus from Piccadilly straight to Broadway and the driver she was very friendly and helpful, directing people where they needed to go. I know Manchester off the back of my hand anyway. It only took about 20 minutes which is on par with the tram but that was only because it was very quiet, eerily so for a Friday night at 11.30pm out of Piccadilly (despite the queues for Revs and the bars under Deansgate being literally at pre-COVID levels; quite eye opening but relieving to see normality!).
Now yesterday (31st) there was a closure in the city centre which meant that trams were only running to either Monsall or Queens Road I believe and Deansgate. Obviously Stagecoach were providing the rail replacement and they were frequent enough, but as I had a lot of luggage with me I was concerned it would be a faff so I walked over to IWM and got the tram to Cornbrook. Was hoping that as services were only running to Deansgate anyway that Trafford Centre services would have been extended from Cornbrook, but alas they weren't. Switched at Cornbrook for the next tram onto Deansgate, and then hoped that there was a train to Piccadilly to save me carting all my luggage down to the bus stops outside Deansgate onto the replacement buses, but when I got there the next train wasn't for another 40 minutes! Would have been handy if Northern stopped a few extra services at Deansgate yesterday but I guess it isn't their problem, especially as buses were running but it's always a faff. In the end I got the bus to Piccadilly and surprisingly didn't take as long as I thought.
One really obvious problem, which has obviously already been mentioned, was the lack of double trams, only observed five each day but obviously am aware of the faults at the moment on the fleet. I do question, however, whether even with the faults on the fleet, that more doubles could have been available due to the engineering works, as some services were really struggling, but I guess there was probably displacement of trams. Also wonder whether Trafford Centre services could have been extended to Deansgate, but again I guess it's down to capacity issues as Altrincham, East Didsbury and Airport services are all there too. I noticed that trams must have been reversing near St Peter's Square or on the ramp down to it from Deansgate, as when my tram terminated I expected it to just remain in the platform and go back out, but it continued to depart towards SPS.
All in all, a great visit, but will definitely double check plans next time!
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Unfortunately you’ve just picked a time to visit that’s plagued with heavy engineering works. That’s the reason for the Rochdale/East Dids services running via market street. 2CC is not available due to the Victoria works.
The Trafford Centre service is turning at Cornbrook siding due to the Inbound platform at DCF being Out of Use. They normally run out of service between CNK and DCF anyway so still wouldn’t have been much use to you.
Manchester Metrolink woes continue
No cross city services Monday - Thursdays this week due to engineering works
Eccles line works extended for a further two weeks
Sunday service - ev12mins on each line - with "normal" Mon - Sat start and finish times from Friday 6th August for the rest of August
said to be due to driver shortages due to covid and isolations
No cross city services Monday - Thursdays this week due to engineering works
Eccles line works extended for a further two weeks
Sunday service - ev12mins on each line - with "normal" Mon - Sat start and finish times from Friday 6th August for the rest of August
said to be due to driver shortages due to covid and isolations
I bet this is causing quite the commotion with it being the holidays too.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Really? We're in the middle of the school holiday!
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