Metrolink potentially questionable "Detrainment"?

[Mothball]

The Manchester Evening News have published an article from a passenger who had to "Detrain" after a fallen tree on Metrolinks Bury line. From the images it looks as if the tram had hit the tree and according to the report the driver opened the door, passengers had to jump down to track level and walk 30 minutes in the rain back to Prestwich Station. A photo does show passengers walking down the four foot and centre of the tracks.

Now I take everything the MEN says with a pinch of salt, and while there is every chance the passengers ignored any guidance, this does seem rather seem rather questionable to me, in an age of Health and Safety and claims put in for anything and everything I would have thought that detrainments would be much more stringent. No ladder down to track level, strolling along the ballast/sleepers after a rain storm and according to the article “It was only when we got near to the station that there was a Metrolink staff member there."

Now I dont know how these kind of things work, I presume they differ from heavy rail, aswell as street running areas, but can all this be accurate? Is detaining and walking lineside really as simple as jump off and walk?

Metrolink passengers forced to walk along tracks in storm after tree blocks line

'I was quite traumatised, It was the middle of a thunderstorm and I didn't know if the tracks were live'

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

They were told they would need to abandon the tram and walk on the tracks back to Prestwich station.

The 41-year-old passenger said: “He opened the doors and the younger ones jumped off no problem.

“A man helped me down.


“We just had to walk. They didn’t tell us if the tram tracks were live; there was a thunderstorm and a tree was brought down onto the track and we were walking on the track.


“We were still in the midst of the storm. It wasn’t safe, it was ridiculous.”


The passenger, who had been on her way to a date at the time, expressed concerns to staff over walking in her high-heel shoes.

“I was in a dress and open-toe heels and there was no step between the tram and the ground.
“There was no guidance at all. People were crossing the track and going in all directions and my shoes were wrecked.

 

[Ianno87]

Given its a line of sight system these days, in the event that a subsequent tram did approach, it would be able to stop short of any passengers on the track

Although all drivers were presumably contacted by radio anyway.

 

[507 001]

Traffic had been stopped by way of an emergency call so no risk to any of the passengers.

It must be noted that it’s all well and good having a stringent procedure for detrainment (which we do…) if the passengers simply won’t and don’t listen to you.

Gone are the days where people would listen to the person in charge (in this case an experienced senior driver). Nowadays everybody and his dog know better, and they’ll detrain themselves whether you want them to or not.

You can repeat yourself till you’re blue in the face, but a lot of people simply won’t listen.

As for the rag that has printed the story, well I wouldn’t give them the satisfaction of reproducing the article here.

 

[ClagLover]

I have been de-trained (de-trammed?) once on the Met but that was in St Peter’s Square so not quite as ‘risky’ perhaps as on the tracks.
Protesters were stood in front of the tram and refused to move so the doors were opened and we all just hopped out. Being rather a short lady I was offered a ladder but opted to just ‘bum-shuffle’ out with the help of the driver.

 

[507 001]

I have been de-trained (de-trammed?) once on the Met but that was in St Peter’s Square so not quite as ‘risky’ perhaps as on the tracks.
Protesters were stood in front of the tram and refused to move so the doors were opened and we all just hopped out. Being rather a short lady I was offered a ladder but opted to just ‘bum-shuffle’ out with the help of the driver.

It’s still detrained.

Now you see, if done properly then the driver should insist that you use the ladder. It’s procedure.

I’ve detrained passengers a few times, and you can guarantee at least 1 in 5 will completely ignore you and jump down, even if the ladder is there.

 

[ClagLover]

It’s still detrained.

Now you see, if done properly then the driver should insist that you use the ladder. It’s procedure.

I’ve detrained passengers a few times, and you can guarantee at least 1 in 5 will completely ignore you and jump down, even if the ladder is there.

The ladder was only offered to me I think. I don’t think they even gave it as an option to the people who got off before me.
Out of curiosity, how would one evacuate a wheelchair user or an elderly/not quite as mobile person?

 

[507 001]

The ladder was only offered to me I think. I don’t think they even gave it as an option to the people who got off before me.
Out of curiosity, how would one evacuate a wheelchair user or an elderly/not quite as mobile person?

Not ideal really.

If possible they would be evacuated to another unit via the detrainment ramp, if not then it’s a case of waiting for assistance by the fire brigade.

 

[Mothball]

You can repeat yourself till you’re blue in the face, but a lot of people simply won’t listen.

As for the rag that has printed the story, well I wouldn’t give them the satisfaction of reproducing the article here.

Normally once the MEN posts an article im the first one there picking the story apart and jump to the defence of the "accused", but having read the article, this time I couldn't.
The picture and short video show people spread out, with a number scattered a lot further ahead of the rest and only one possible staff member visible up near the front. While a passenger looks to be about to walk on a piece of equiptment in the four foot. I would have thought there would be have been enough staff there to observe all the passengers throughout the walk.
I dont doubt that some idiots decided to ignore all advice, but it only takes one to step on something slippery and that's a nasty claim against the operator, regardless of being an idiot or not.
For me Metrolinks statement didn't help, basically "we have procedures to do this" while the article states they felt these procedures were unsafe. No clarification, nothing to say some passengers ignored any advice. No defence given.

 

[507 001]

Normally once the MEN posts an article im the first one there picking the story apart and jump to the defence of the "accused", but having read the article, this time I couldn't.
The picture and short video show people spread out, with a number scattered a lot further ahead of the rest and only one possible staff member visible up near the front. While a passenger looks to be about to walk on a piece of equiptment in the four foot. I would have thought there would be have been enough staff there to observe all the passengers throughout the walk.
I dont doubt that some idiots decided to ignore all advice, but it only takes one to step on something slippery and that's a nasty claim against the operator, regardless of being an idiot or not.
For me Metrolinks statement didn't help, basically "we have procedures to do this" while the article states they felt these procedures were unsafe. No clarification, nothing to say some passengers ignored any advice. No defence given.

Ok, so in this case you have an instructor with a trainee, which is 100% more staff than you’d normally have in this situation. Where do you expect the extra staff to come from? Can’t just magic them out of thin air.

You have a double unit, with potentially 500 people on board, but in this case probably close to 150.

Two members of staff are not going to be able to stop those passengers detraining themselves, which is what usually happens in these situations. You want to wait for the incident officer to turn up to assist with detraining? Ok that’s gonna take at least 30 minutes for him to get to you from Trafford depot assuming he’s not already dealing with something else out and about on the system. Are you seriously telling me you’re expecting two members of staff to keep potentially 500 people on board until he gets there? Most of the time detrainment needs to be done now, not in 30 minutes.

Two members of staff are not going to be able to corral all of those people and ensure that every one of them does as they’re told. So the procedure says split them up into smaller, more manageable groups.

You do this, and walk toward Prestwich with the first group. Instructor leading, trainee bringing up the rear as per procedure.

Do you really think the passengers left behind are going to stay there?

The procedure is rigorous, and it does cater for most eventualities however it is entirely dependent on people doing as they’re told. You’re quite simply fighting a losing battle, as it’ll always be the ones that wander off that go to the MEN.

 

[Mothball]

Where has this talk of passengers detraining themselves come from? Its certainly not in the article or from Metrolinks own statement.

If passengers decide to get off themselves and go for a walk then yes, if they get hurt it is there own fault 100%. But nothing I've read so far has made me think this is the case. Clearly 2 staff member cant observe 150 people walking down the line but lets say someone does slip, in todays culture blame has to lie somewhere. Is it not better to tell them to wait on board until there is enough staff to safely observe? That way if they go for a walk of there own accord, its there own fault.

 

[507 001]

Where has this talk of passengers detraining themselves come from? Its certainly not in the article or from Metrolinks own statement.

If passengers decide to get off themselves and go for a walk then yes, if they get hurt it is there own fault 100%. But nothing I've read so far has made me think this is the case. Clearly 2 staff member cant observe 150 people walking down the line but lets say someone does slip, in todays culture blame has to lie somewhere. Is it not better to tell them to wait on board until there is enough staff to safely observe? That way if they go for a walk of there own accord, its there own fault.

It’s pretty much standard operating procedure for our clientele in the vast majority of these incidents.

I’m not saying it did happen, I’m saying it might have happened. It is entirely possible, and is more likely than the driver (given who he is) not following procedure. Of course the person going to the MEN isn’t going to tell the MEN that they detrained of their own accord now are they?

An investigation will happen and it may well be that in future passengers are asked to stay on board. However, given the procedure as it is today then the two most likely scenarios are either that they detrained themselves, or they did not listen/follow instructions.