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Trivia: Mispronounced station names

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hexagon789

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That confuses me as well

I don't remember the Northern Line announcements being pronounced that way, I'm sure they say "warren", as in the rabbit home!
Well Warren Street is named after Vice-Admiral Sir Peter Warren rather than a rabbit hole, the family name being Norman French in origin - De Warrenne. Though quite how he pronounced himself it is anyone's guess now I would imagine.
 
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urbophile

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He suggests Irish influence via Glasgow as causing the K pronunciation to spread, though it conflicts with 'correct' Scottish pronunciation. Recorded announcements will tend to follow the 'correct' pronunciation; live 'customer services people' may not.
Surely the guttural 'ch' sound is common to all the Celtic languages and has spread to English as spoken in Ireland, Wales and Scotland (plus Merseyside). Does Irish pronunciation use the hard K in this context? I can't think that it does.
 

hexagon789

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Surely the guttural 'ch' sound is common to all the Celtic languages and has spread to English as spoken in Ireland, Wales and Scotland (plus Merseyside). Does Irish pronunciation use the hard K in this context? I can't think that it does.
One of the few Irish words I can think of, Taoiseach, ends with a guttural 'ch' - kh sound AFAIK.
 

contrex

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Never understood why so many places in London begin with "H".
I used to get called 'posh' for pronouncing Herne Hill (where I grew up) with the two H's intact.

The guy at West Norwood around 1963 used to call the station between Crystal Palace and Beckenham Junction 'Birbeck' over the PA when the headcode 36s came in. I never knew if this was a mispronunciation or not.
 

Turtle

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I used to get called 'posh' for pronouncing Herne Hill (where I grew up) with the two H's intact.

The guy at West Norwood around 1963 used to call the station between Crystal Palace and Beckenham Junction 'Birbeck' over the PA when the headcode 36s came in. I never knew if this was a mispronunciation or not.
Quaite raite! Many of us Sarf Lunneners are able to pronounce our aitches.
 

norbitonflyer

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Four pronunciations of the largest city on Tyneside stress: on first or second syllable, and second syllable long (Newcahsle) or short (Newcassle). They're all wrong - locally it's called the Toon.
 
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I often ride the line between Crewe and Stoke on Trent and what annoys me every time is that the Alsager is mispronounced on both the on train announcements and by the announcements at Stoke and Crewe.
I know a number of people who live or lived in Alsager and they all pronounce the 'Al' as you would in Salford or St Albans, but the railway insist on pronouncing the 'Al' as in Alan. Where they got this pronunciation from I don't know.
Has anyone else noticed this peculiarity, or has anyone else noticed other mispronounced station names?
 

Class800

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I often ride the line between Crewe and Stoke on Trent and what annoys me every time is that the Alsager is mispronounced on both the on train announcements and by the announcements at Stoke and Crewe.
I know a number of people who live or lived in Alsager and they all pronounce the 'Al' as you would in Salford or St Albans, but the railway insist on pronouncing the 'Al' as in Alan. Where they got this pronunciation from I don't know.
Has anyone else noticed this peculiarity, or has anyone else noticed other mispronounced station names?
We've had 12 pages of them so far so plenty examples to review. One challenge is distinguishing mispronunciation from local accent. I think we've covered most of the best ones I can think of. My favourite must be Kingussie, often at least in the past, pronounced by LNER as KING GUSSIE not KIN YOU SEE, with stress on you.
 

hexagon789

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My favourite must be Kingussie, often at least in the past, pronounced by LNER as KING GUSSIE not KIN YOU SEE, with stress on you.
I always thought the G was sounded - ie KIN GYOU SEE and given it comes from the Gaelic - Ceann a' Ghiùthsaich, roughly Koun-uh-Gyoo-sukh.
 

Class800

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It's a subtle difference and may not always be audible, also using letters to represent is only a broad approximation, but I have heard it sometimes like that and sometimes without the G sound.
 

hexagon789

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It's a subtle difference and may not always be audible, also using letters to represent is only a broad approximation, but I have heard it sometimes like that and sometimes without the G sound.
My guess is the one with the 'G' is a Gaelic approximate - ie pronunciation more influenced by the original Gaelic including the splitting of the syllables, the one without the 'G' is then a more Anglicised variant.
 

Class800

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My guess is the one with the 'G' is a Gaelic approximate - ie pronunciation more influenced by the original Gaelic including the splitting of the syllables, the one without the 'G' is then a more Anglicised variant.
seems right - I have a linguistics degree but limited Gaelic awareness, so cannot be definitive.
 

Cheshire Scot

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My guess is the one with the 'G' is a Gaelic approximate - ie pronunciation more influenced by the original Gaelic including the splitting of the syllables, the one without the 'G' is then a more Anglicised variant.
I am inclined to agree.

I once heard Garelochhead pronounced Garry lochhead - well, no, actually Garry Lockhead
 

hexagon789

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seems right - I have a linguistics degree but limited Gaelic awareness, so cannot be definitive.
I know enough to approximate the pronunciation of the Gaelic version of place-names, but boy is it a complex orthography to get your head round. At least it is in my opinion, I think Welsh is by comparison much simpler!

I am inclined to agree.

I once heard Garelochhead pronounced Garry lochhead - well, no, actually Garry Lockhead
Ouch, Garry Lockhead :rolleyes:. I think that rates even worse than Miln-gavie instead of Mull-guy for Milngavie.
 

Class800

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I know enough to approximate the pronunciation of the Gaelic version of place-names, but boy is it a complex orthography to get your head round. At least it is in my opinion, I think Welsh is by comparison much simpler!


Ouch, Garry Lockhead :rolleyes:. I think that rates even worse than Miln-gavie instead of Mull-guy for Milngavie.
Garry Lockhead is at least funny. It rates along with the very worst though with the Kingussie one and Kirkcaldy being pronounced as written.
 

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Loughborough is the best for visitors from the US who often call it Loogaberoogar

As in the French version of "American Werewolf in London" where they changed the location to somewhere cheaper to film in, "Les Loups-Garoux de Lougabarouga".

I gave up even shaking my head at St Pancreas

I always call it that. Or just "The Pancreas". That station further up the line is always Loogabarooga too. It's more entertaining that way.

I don't know how Aspatria should be pronounced but judging by the laughter on the train, the automated pronunciation of ass-pat-rea can't be right!

Speatrie, lowp oot!

Because I am infantile at the age of 56 it will always be PENIS-tone

But of course. What else could it possibly be?

(Named, of course, for the lead singer of the trans-Pennine folk fusion band, "Penis Tone and the Clit Heroes".)

Either MARLEY BONE or MARRY LE BUN usually, but can be various other combinations. I once heard a German pronounce it MARY LEE BONER - giggles.

It seems to get slurred more and more the closer you get to it. Probably the people who live at the exact centre of the area have cut it right down to "Mahn", as a sort of grunt.

I once heard a German chap on the tube talking about "Ed-G-Var Road". It was highly memorable because of the incredible fluidity with which he managed to pronounce that awkward DGV string of consonants all as entirely separate sounds with neither slurring nor inserting vowel sounds between them, but all fitting closely together, the sounds clicking into place off his tongue like a well-oiled rifle bolt. Trying to represent it on the keyboard hopefully gives some idea of what he did, but it fails dismally to begin to convey the amazingly fluent way he did it.

Always wonder about how Worcester in Massachusetts is dealt with, but I think 'Wooster' is used there too, because Wor-Ces-Ter sounds too clumsy. I might be wrong there.

I've heard that in England. Never entirely sure if the chap was joking but he used to call it that all the time while not similarly transforming other old Roman forts.

Given that the surname "Featherstonehaugh" is pronounced "Fanshaw"

The one at school wasn't...

Oddly they don't say 'Newc'sle' but Newcahstle which is annoying in a different way. But even most northerners stress the first syllable rather than the authentic second.

Newcastle, the Tyne one, is of course named after all the disruption of the CND protests.

And let's not forget Baff Spar - not many stations are named after the corner shop.

Droitwich is, by the railway, but not by anyone else because the idea of it being a "spa" is a joke these days. Occasionally it gets renamed after a disabled person.

As seen on a local website a few years ago - "Two syllables is local, three is over annunciated posh!" :lol:

Meaning that they say it that way much too often on the station tannoy?

I'm not surprised a hard 'k' variant is now treated as a legitimate alternative, in my experience few people my age and slightly older pronounce 'ch' as a guttural, aspirated 'kh' rather than a hard 'k' anymore - ie making lock and loch homophones.

I've heard it claimed regarding this one that English people "can't say" ch as in loch correctly - meaning "are unable to" rather than "habitually don't". Of course, it is merely that they are too bleeding idle to make the imperceptibly small effort. They seem to manage OK when they're talking about the composer and can't bring themselves to call him "Back" because that would just be too silly.

I know enough to approximate the pronunciation of the Gaelic version of place-names, but boy is it a complex orthography to get your head round. At least it is in my opinion, I think Welsh is by comparison much simpler!

Welsh is totally straightforward apart from a degree of uncertainty over the alternatives for "y", but Gaelic is a different kettle of fish. Said to be "pronounced exactly as it's spelt", which may even be true, but the choices for which letters represent which sound are so wildly different from any of the choices anyone else uses as to seem wilfully perverse. And there's the additional difficulty that more than half the letters in a word don't actually do anything except be confusing, so the first step is trying to work out which ones to ignore entirely, and while there are many sequences of letters which frequently don't do anything there aren't any which never do. And the same spelling sounds different depending on which version of Gaelic it is. It's a system of orthography designed by the same people who in later generations would go and work for Microsoft.
 

nw1

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I know enough to approximate the pronunciation of the Gaelic version of place-names, but boy is it a complex orthography to get your head round. At least it is in my opinion, I think Welsh is by comparison much simpler!


Ouch, Garry Lockhead :rolleyes:. I think that rates even worse than Miln-gavie instead of Mull-guy for Milngavie.

How is it prononunced incidentally? I would imagine 'Gair - Loch - Head' but or possibly 'Gar [as in the pronunciation of the French word for station] - Loch - Head' but I might be completely wrong.

No guarantee of accuracy, of course, but Wikipedia has the pronunciation you approve of as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsager):

For many years I thought it had a hard G. Only learnt it was a soft G in the 90s, perhaps 15 years after I first saw the place on a map.

I pronounce both Doncaster and Lancaster like that so it isn't merely a Southern England thing, although I feel the 'schwa' pronunciation is perhaps considered posher. The use of 'schwa' here goes back generations and it certainly isn't in any way incorrect; I've heard locals pronounce Lancaster as such.

Strangely I pronounce Lancaster the 'Northern' way but Doncaster (and most other 'caster's) the 'Southern' way. Not sure if that is common, and Lancaster is generally pronounced the 'Northern' way even by people who have lived most of their lives in the south. Actually 'Tadcaster' is another one - I'd pronounce that the northern way. Not that I've ever been there, just heard of it.
 
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snowball

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How is it prononunced incidentally? [I would imagine 'Gair - Loch - Head' but or possibly 'Gar [as in the pronunciation of the French word for station] - Loch - Head' but I might be completely wrong.
I think it'd Gair-loch-head as you say.
For many years I thought it [Alsager] had a hard G. Only learnt it was a soft G in the 90s, perhaps 15 years after I first saw the place on a map.
Cs and Gs are usually soft when followed by E or I in English or French.
 

nw1

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I think it'd Gair-loch-head as you say.

Cs and Gs are usually soft when followed by E or I in English or French.

That is true come to think of it, similar words, e.g. 'teenager', 'wager' have soft Gs. I'm not sure why I assumed a hard G. I think I was about 7 when I first saw it on a map, that might have something to do with it.
 

hexagon789

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I've heard it claimed regarding this one that English people "can't say" ch as in loch correctly - meaning "are unable to" rather than "habitually don't". Of course, it is merely that they are too bleeding idle to make the imperceptibly small effort. They seem to manage OK when they're talking about the composer and can't bring themselves to call him "Back" because that would just be too silly.
Indeed, if they can manage a passable kh in Bach, why not Loch or quaich or Lochluichart? ;)


Welsh is totally straightforward apart from a degree of uncertainty over the alternatives for "y", but Gaelic is a different kettle of fish. Said to be "pronounced exactly as it's spelt", which may even be true, but the choices for which letters represent which sound are so wildly different from any of the choices anyone else uses as to seem wilfully perverse. And there's the additional difficulty that more than half the letters in a word don't actually do anything except be confusing, so the first step is trying to work out which ones to ignore entirely, and while there are many sequences of letters which frequently don't do anything there aren't any which never do. And the same spelling sounds different depending on which version of Gaelic it is. It's a system of orthography designed by the same people who in later generations would go and work for Microsoft.
It's ascertaining which letters are silent I find awkward to discern. If pronounced things are actually quite straightforward, it's when lenition and silent letters come into it that it gets too much.

Or sounds that don't appear in the letters - take Alba, the Gaelic for Scotland looks like it would be said as spelled in English give-or-take. Nope, it's actually more like Al-uh-puh, an extra vowel sound in the middle not apparent from the spelling, but apparent when you learn about epenthetic vowels in Gaelic.

How is it prononunced incidentally? I would imagine 'Gair - Loch - Head' but or possibly 'Gar [as in the pronunciation of the French word for station] - Loch - Head' but I might be completely wrong.
Gair to rhyme with hair.
 

hexagon789

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As an aside. I always think that news readers pronounce this as teashop.
I always thought they just called them the Irish Prime Minister, presumably because Taoiseach is too difficult.

Unless you mean Irish newsreaders on something like RTÉ? I just don't ever remember hearing Taoiseach used on a British news programme but that's more than likely just my memory.
 

snowball

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I've often heard Taoiseach used on BBC TV or radio. Maybe it's something you'd be more likely to hear on PM or Newsnight than the plain news. They even used the term for his deputy a week or two ago.
 

hexagon789

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I've often heard Taoiseach used on BBC TV or radio. Maybe it's something you'd be more likely to hear on PM or Newsnight than the plain news. They even used the term for his deputy a week or two ago.
Fair enough, they may well have and I don't remember or else they used the term and added the qualifier of - 'The Irish Prime Minister' and I only recall that.

The term for deputy is Tánaiste - Taw-nish-tuh. The constitution uses the Irish terms for the respective offices in both Irish and English versions, so officially there is no 'Prime Minister' or 'Deputy Prime Minister' rather the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste.

Taoiseach means chief effectively and Tánaiste is the heir to the chief.
 
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