MML Electrification: progress updates

[Flying Phil]

There was some work being done trackside between Braybrooke and Desborough (Just North of the Garden centre), but I think it is just more vegetation clearance.

There is more than vegetation work being done here as there is now, what appears to be, a compound fenced in alongside the track with a roadway to the small local road. Could this be for a storage/works site for the electrification?

 

[59CosG95]

There is more than vegetation work being done here as there is now, what appears to be, a compound fenced in alongside the track with a roadway to the small local road. Could this be for a storage/works site for the electrification?

Possibly an access point? Materials and plant would certainly be stored there in advance of shifts.

 

[swt_passenger]

I’ve been looking at National Grid’s various planning applications (as of 2020), and the grid supply point is shown to be about 1 mile NNW of Braybrooke, surrounding an existing 400 kV pylon, on the north side of the railway. Road access to be from near the junction of the old A6 and the A6 bypass.



How does that fit with what people are seeing on the ground?

 

[InTheEastMids]

I’ve been looking at National Grid’s various planning applications (as of 2020), and the grid supply point is shown to be about 1 mile NNW of Braybrooke, surrounding an existing 400 kV pylon, on the north side of the railway. Road access to be from near the junction of the old A6 and the A6 bypass.

View attachment 95318

How does that fit with what people are seeing on the ground?

Nothing happening there, though de-veg work had been carried out well into Market Harborough.

National Grid's contractors came s while ago, moved a lot of mud around, put it all back and then left the site (presumably ground investigations, archaeology etc)

I would imagine that work will start properly again this year, and the intrusive bit that requires an outage on NGET's network will be summer 2022. A bit speculative but Transmission outages are normally summer and 2023 might be leaving it a bit late

 

[Flying Phil]

The grid connection site is about a mile away from this possible works site, which is accessed just next to the bridge which carries the MML over the Braybrooke to Dingley road.

 

[Wapps]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but when will the OLE upgrades allow for electric running south of Bedford? Rather farcical situation if the new trains can’t run on wires!

 

[Bald Rick]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but when will the OLE upgrades allow for electric running south of Bedford? Rather farcical situation if the new trains can’t run on wires!

Still to be confirmed.

 

[Wapps]

Still to be confirmed.

Thank you. Surely the media will pick up on this at some point if it’s done by the time the new trains are running. A bit like “aircraft carriers with no planes”, it captures the imagination.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Well they are not due to be in service for another two years, which is the only time the media are likely to be interested. Presumably by the time they do there will be a clear timescale, and it will be relatively short, which will deflect much of the criticism.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thank you. Surely the media will pick up on this at some point if it’s done by the time the new trains are running. A bit like “aircraft carriers with no planes”, it captures the imagination.

I agree.

I have no connection with this project and don’t know what the proposals are, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if we end up seeing the new trains running at 100mph on the electric section until the work is done. Most of them have enough pathing time to be able to cope with that.

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps they'll drop the pans and accelerate to 125 only if they're running late.

 

[hwl]

Perhaps they'll drop the pans and accelerate to 125 only if they're running late.

@ 7.2seconds per mile difference excluding acceleration.

But most of the MML south of Bedford isn't 125, only 35% is.


The theoretical timing impact of 100mph max vs "HST" linespeed south of Bedford is 209.6s (3m29s) excluding acceleration (6 increases above 100mph) and deceleration (3 decreases above 100mph) which will reduce that even further.

 

[Bald Rick]

@ 7.2seconds per mile difference excluding acceleration.

But most of the MML south of Bedford isn't 125, only 35% is.


The theoretical timing impact of 100mph max vs "HST" linespeed south of Bedford is 209.6s (3m29s) excluding acceleration (6 increases above 100mph) and deceleration (3 decreases above 100mph) which will reduce that even further.

Yep, as I mentioned upthread somewhere, it’s roughly 2 mins north of Luton and 1 minute south. If the OLE work does get funded, it should be delivered north to south. And I’m not convinced it would be a sensible use of cash South of Luton given the Thameslink interaction - spend a wedge of money to put more pathing time in the schedules!

 

[Roast Veg]

I sincerely hope north of Luton does get funded at least. What are the headways on the MML? 2 minutes could be more significant than it sounds.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Still to be confirmed.

Wait, what? The new Electrics service to Corby will only use the overhead lines between Bedford and Corby? Why is that? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Wait, what? The new Electrics service to Corby will only use the overhead lines between Bedford and Corby? Why is that? Or have I misunderstood?

No. 360s aren't bi-mode so will need overheads all the way.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Oh. Good. Then what does "when will the OLE upgrades allow for electric running south of Bedford? Rather farcical situation if the new trains can’t run on wires!" mean?

 

[edwin_m]

Oh. Good. Then what does "when will the OLE upgrades allow for electric running south of Bedford? Rather farcical situation if the new trains can’t run on wires!" mean?

This applies to the 810s which will be limited to 100mph on electric power south of Bedford unless or until the OLE is upgraded, so may end up running more slowly or using diesel power. The 360s will also be limited to 100mph south of Bedford despite being upgraded for 110mph.

 

[flitwickbeds]

This applies to the 810s which will be limited to 100mph on electric power south of Bedford unless or until the OLE is upgraded, so may end up running more slowly or using diesel power. The 360s will also be limited to 100mph south of Bedford despite being upgraded for 110mph.

Thanks for the response. I'm not particularly into rolling stock types/numbers. I think the new Corby services are the 360s, right? What are the 810s and which service(s) do/will they operate?

 

[Domh245]

Thanks for the response. I'm not particularly into rolling stock types/numbers. I think the new Corby services are the 360s, right? What are the 810s and which service(s) do/will they operate?

The new connect services will be 360s, correct. The 810s will be operating the Nottingham/Sheffield/Derby services, replacing the current intercity fleet in a few years time.

 

[edwin_m]

The new connect services will be 360s, correct. The 810s will be operating the Nottingham/Sheffield/Derby services, replacing the current intercity fleet in a few years time.

And the 810s are bi-mode so can use diesel power instead of electric where necessary.

 

[hooverboy]

The new connect services will be 360s, correct. The 810s will be operating the Nottingham/Sheffield/Derby services, replacing the current intercity fleet in a few years time.

To be fair, the 360's are excellent trains. Very good acceleration,very well built and very reliable.
I don't think they will have any problem matching meridian timings,even with 100mph restriction.

As BaldRick points out, there's only a couple of sections south of bedford where 125mph is permitted in any case. One section between criclewood and mill hill broadway,and one section between flitwick and bedford if I recall.

The acceleration of a 360 is miles better than 22x.I would wager that they could still keep time if they had to call at luton airport parkway AND luton,instead of one or the other.

 

[hooverboy]

Thanks for the response. I'm not particularly into rolling stock types/numbers. I think the new Corby services are the 360s, right? What are the 810s and which service(s) do/will they operate?

yes that's right.

360's are replacing the 222's that run st pancras to corby.
those 222's that are freed up will replace the hst's and 180's that run the nottingham/derby/sheffield services.All said services then become auniform fleet of class 222 until the new units are ready.

2-3 years from now,once built,tested and crews trained,theres a brand new fleet of 35 class 810's that will replace the 222's.

 

[hooverboy]

In effect this is a very significant jump in capacity on the MML.Having uniform fleets for each purpose also helps a lot with maintenance, training, crew availability and having hot spares ready to go should a particular unit fail.

 

[43096]

And the 810s are bi-mode so can use diesel power instead of electric where necessary.

But that is a PR disaster in terms of decarbonisation. And we really shouldn't be saying "it's fine, we'll run at 100mph instead" - there was a reason that NR and Stagecoach upgraded the line from 110 to 125 in the first place.

 

[Roast Veg]

But that is a PR disaster in terms of decarbonisation. And we really shouldn't be saying "it's fine, we'll run at 100mph instead" - there was a reason that NR and Stagecoach upgraded the line from 110 to 125 in the first place.

Yes there was, but the scope of those works reached far further than the present wires.

 

[apinnard]

I agree.

I have no connection with this project and don’t know what the proposals are, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if we end up seeing the new trains running at 100mph on the electric section until the work is done. Most of them have enough pathing time to be able to cope with that.

I’ve seen 222’s on “fast” services pass Wellingborough 8-10 minutes early. And that’s not even on the ultra slack Sunday timings.

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that this thread is an Infrastructure and Stations section thread for discussion of updates about the actual MML electrification scheme.

For discussion about the actual rolling stock to be used please use the following threads:

EMR Class 360's | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

 

[AM9]

But that is a PR disaster in terms of decarbonisation. And we really shouldn't be saying "it's fine, we'll run at 100mph instead" - there was a reason that NR and Stagecoach upgraded the line from 110 to 125 in the first place.

Did 'Stagecoach' contribute to the upgrade of the line to 125mph? - I didn't think that TOCs contributed to the infrastructure, (other than through obligatory track access charges).

 

[59CosG95]

LinkedIn post from the NCB (Network Certification Body):

Network Certification Body (NCB) on LinkedIn: #ncbteam #midlandmainline #electrification #buildbackbetter…

We’re pleased to announce we have been awarded the contract for GRIP 5-8 for the Midland Mainline Electrification programme. We’re proud to continue to certify…

www.linkedin.com

They've been awarded the GRIP 5-8 contract for the MMLE (no specific details given); I assume this is for KO1a as they've only just authorised KO1 (along with the ORR). But this could (hopefully) be for beyond Mkt H'boro' as much of the work for KO1a is now at GRIP 6 (i.e. construction)...