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Model Railways For The Over 10s/ Under 40s? (Will There Be Much Of A Model Railway Market In The 2030s/2040s?)

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Journeyman

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Its exactly what Railroad was meant to be but it was like Hornby saw pound signs.

I know, it's really disappointing that the concept has been watered down. Early on, it looked great, and the models were good value and reasonably decent. Someone else needs to pick up the ball on that, I think.
 
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SeanG

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For what it is worth, I do think that the issue may also be down to space as well as cost. Here goes...

I am 27 and own a house with my wife. It is a new build 4 bedroom house. You could say that we are in the fortunate position of both having good jobs and without children are able to spend disposable income on our hobbies. I do feel that 150+ on a loco is pricy but can afford a few a year.

However, I have limited space for a layout, modern houses do not lend themselves well to sheds in their small gardens, and as many modellers can attest to, having space away from family life is difficult. This is compounded by the fact that I don't want to build up a layout in a room and then a few years down the line have to remove it for a new child.
Of course when children have left home the space is available again, but then I would be older.

As I noted above however, I am in a very fortunate position and most people my age are not in such a position to own their own home regardless of size, and so that may also hinder their ability to model /find space for one.

That said, the concept of a micro layout is now very appealing - it is smaller so obviously can take up much less space, and only needs limited stock which keeps space down. Perhaps the days of large layouts are numbered...
 

Journeyman

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That said, the concept of a micro layout is now very appealing - it is smaller so obviously can take up much less space, and only needs limited stock which keeps space down. Perhaps the days of large layouts are numbered...

I wish someone would revive British outline TT gauge! It gives you that little bit more, without being as tiny and fiddly as N.
 

Cowley

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I wish someone would revive British outline TT gauge! It gives you that little bit more, without being as tiny and fiddly as N.
That would have been a very useful scale for this country and the limited space available in a lot of homes.
I do like the micro layout thing though, and I suppose something like that appeals to me in a way because I don’t get as much enjoyment running trains as I do making things.
That’s one area that can be cheap and absorbing because making a building doesn’t cost much but you get better at it as you go along.

Obviously I’m into my N gauge now but I haven’t actually got that much stock (5 locos, a couple of DMUs and various coaches and wagons). What I have done though is weathered (and in some cases paid for them to be weathered) and detailed everything (and yes you do have to hold your nerve doing it at first!), which is satisfying to me and again doesn’t cost too much.

Going back to your point about not everyone having a shed @SeanG. Of course another problem with outside sheds is that you also need to spend money insulating them, fitting electrics and making them secure.
Not a problem if you’re good with DIY perhaps, but not easy for everyone.
 

raetiamann

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I recall this question being asked many times over the years, but somehow the hobby carries on. For me there are two areas of hope looking forward.
A) Attendences at model railway exhibitions seem, until this year at least, seem to have held up well. Whilst the largest group does seems to be mature males, I've thought it encouraging to see families and younger people there.
B) Rail simulation is I'd suggest a hook for the hobby. It's easy to get going on the various sites, and providing the players retain interest, may want to explore and develop a more 3D experience later.

Maybe I've got rose tinted spectacles, but the numbers of new suppliers into the hobby is very much a positive.
 

JohnMcL7

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I recall this question being asked many times over the years, but somehow the hobby carries on. For me there are two areas of hope looking forward.
A) Attendences at model railway exhibitions seem, until this year at least, seem to have held up well. Whilst the largest group does seems to be mature males, I've thought it encouraging to see families and younger people there.
B) Rail simulation is I'd suggest a hook for the hobby. It's easy to get going on the various sites, and providing the players retain interest, may want to explore and develop a more 3D experience later.

Maybe I've got rose tinted spectacles, but the numbers of new suppliers into the hobby is very much a positive.

I was thinking the same and on top of that with much of the current railway being duller than it used to be (lots of multiple units and mostly 66's for freight) there's good reason for them to want to recreate setups with a variety of classic British traction. There's a lot of interest in retro computing at the moment and what's fascinating is that it's not just people recreating systems from when they were younger but some of the interest is coming from young people who never experienced these systems the first time but are keen to see what they are like.

I did have a model railway setup when I was in my teens which I put a lot of time and effort into but my memories are mostly of it being frustrating, the trains would frequently stop and their behaviour just didn't feel like real ones with such rapid acceleration and braking. The modern digital trains while expensive are so impressive and I think going for a smaller, more specialist market is the right way to go as I think many of the people interested in modelling would like to do it properly.
 

reddragon

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My kids, one young, one adult are only interested in trains they see every day. As Peter C says, getting them is not easy.

RR HSTs are a no brainer, but 2nd hand ex-Lima First Great Western mark 3 sell on ebay for £85, because they are not making them!

There are so many modern trains, youngsters see each day and you cannot buy hardly any of them!

Seems like model rail buyers are old gits because they only make models for old gits.

Ok, I've emailed Hattons to commission some stuff, long email but targeting things such as cheap HST & wagons ex Lima via Hornby and some modern MUs to keep us happy

Lets see what they say!
 
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Journeyman

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The modern multiple unit market is steadily improving though. You can get Networkers, Desiros, a 319 is coming, 150s, 153s, 156s, 170s...it's never been better.
 

Cowley

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The modern multiple unit market is steadily improving though. You can get Networkers, Desiros, a 319 is coming, 150s, 153s, 156s, 170s...it's never been better.
@Ash Bridge sent me a couple of ModelRails from 1999 through the post today and it’s astonishing looking at what we had to deal with back then.
A very limited range, terrible motors, no working lights, no DCC, and very very few niche models let alone multiple units.

Reading them is a real reminder of how buoyant things are now compared to twenty years ago.
 

Journeyman

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@Ash Bridge sent me a couple of ModelRails from 1999 through the post today and it’s astonishing looking at what we had to deal with back then.
A very limited range, terrible motors, no working lights, no DCC, and very very few niche models let alone multiple units.

Reading them is a real reminder of how buoyant things are now compared to twenty years ago.

I started modelling twenty years before that - Hornby's modern image range was tiny. It was pretty much the 08, 25, Hymek, 37 and 47, and Mark 2 coaches, plus HST with Mark 3s that were far too short. Really bad stuff! The range available now is huge.
 

Cowley

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I started modelling twenty years before that - Hornby's modern image range was tiny. It was pretty much the 08, 25, Hymek, 37 and 47, and Mark 2 coaches, plus HST with Mark 3s that were far too short. Really bad stuff! The range available now is huge.
It’s amazing how much it’s changed isn’t it? Not perfect and there are definitely accessibility issues, but even so...
I probably started around the same time as you @Journeyman and it sounds like we had exactly the same fleet. :lol:
 

Journeyman

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It’s amazing how much it’s changed isn’t it? Not perfect and there are definitely accessibility issues, but even so...
I probably started around the same time as you @Journeyman and it sounds like we had exactly the same fleet. :lol:

Haha! It was frustrating that I couldn't obtain models of any of the Southern EMUs I saw day in, day out - now look what you can get!

I was really impressed by the Hornby class 110 when it came out, and was glad to get one as a Christmas present, but it was a very odd choice of prototype with a very small range of applications - a 101, 104 or 108 would have been better.

Even worse was Hornby's decision to model the class 29 long after its incredibly short and unsuccessful career was over. It wasn't even a good model.
 
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Cowley

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Haha! It was frustrating that I couldn't obtain models of any of the Southern EMUs I saw day in, day out - now look what you can get!

I was really impressed by the Hornby class 110 when it came out, and was glad to get one as a Christmas present, but it was a very odd choice of prototype with a very small range of applications - a 101, 104 or 108 would have been better.

Even worse was Hornby's decision to model the class 29 long after its incredibly short and unsuccessful career was over. It wasn't even a good model.
Definitely. That 110 was a really nice model and I’m sure that many railways were built around there being a decent model to start with and then finding a way to crowbar it in somehow...
Re the class 29 - as far as I remember it was the only other model that Hornby could produce that had the same prototypical wheelbase as the already produced class 25 - again a saving money exercise.
It’s funny thinking back though because Hornby were quite happy to use their class 47 chassis (including the bogie frames) for their not very good class 37...
 

Journeyman

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Definitely. That 110 was a really nice model and I’m sure that many railways were built around there being a decent model to start with and then finding a way to crowbar it in somehow...
Re the class 29 - as far as I remember it was the only other model that Hornby could produce that had the same prototypical wheelbase as the already produced class 25 - again a saving money exercise.
It’s funny thinking back though because Hornby were quite happy to use their class 47 chassis (including the bogie frames) for their not very good class 37...

All of that was a common problem - one or two decent models would be produced, and then the parts were used in loads of other mediocre models. Every 0-6-0 and 0-4-0 model used the same chassis and wheelbase, and it looked dreadful on the 08, where the prototype has outside frames. The 0-4-0 was even worse - although the class 06 looked decent, it was a nightmare to operate, and could accelerate from 0 to light speed in a fraction of a second. :)

I didn't know the 29 decision was driven by wheelbase, but it makes sense.
 

Cowley

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All of that was a common problem - one or two decent models would be produced, and then the parts were used in loads of other mediocre models. Every 0-6-0 and 0-4-0 model used the same chassis and wheelbase, and it looked dreadful on the 08, where the prototype has outside frames. The 0-4-0 was even worse - although the class 06 looked decent, it was a nightmare to operate, and could accelerate from 0 to light speed in a fraction of a second. :)

I didn't know the 29 decision was driven by wheelbase, but it makes sense.
I might split a few of these off into a new thread tomorrow if I can think of a sensible title.
Pm me if you’ve got any ideas. ;)
 

GusB

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The lack of brick-and-mortar stores can't be helping the cause. When I was a kid there was a "proper" toy shop that had a fairly good range of model railway stuff, and nearby there was a bike shop which had taken on larger premises and diversified into other hobbies. There was also a specialised model centre whose proprietor was very much into the railway side of things. While I couldn't afford to buy new locos very often, there was still a fairly good second-hand market and I was able to buy stuff within pocket-money limits.

With the transition to "everything online", the browse factor has gone. It's fine trawling through online model shops if you know what you want to buy, but if you're a parent looking for something different to give your kids for Christmas, the model railway market is very much at a disadvantage these days.

It's a great pity, because it's the ultimate "expandable" system that can grow from a clockwork Thomas, through the "Smoky Joe" early electrics to having a full blown period layout with as much rivet-counting as you like :)
 

Journeyman

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Completely agree - where I grew up, there was a department store toy department that sold some stuff, a Beatties store that stocked loads of Hornby and Lima, a newsagent that rather bizarrely sold a bit of Mainline stuff, and a short bus ride took me to a large independent model railway shop. I was truly spoilt for choice.

It's particularly important for secondhand stuff, which I really wouldn't fancy buying unseen on eBay. In at least one of those shops, the proprietor was happy to demonstrate secondhand locos either on a layout or test track, so you knew what you were getting. They were all serviced before sale too.
 

Peter Kelford

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The modern multiple unit market is steadily improving though. You can get Networkers, Desiros, a 319 is coming, 150s, 153s, 156s, 170s...it's never been better.
You'd hope these things sold for about the price of a loco in the case of a 2-car or 1-car unit. Sadly that's not the case.
 

tbtc

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Haha! It was frustrating that I couldn't obtain models of any of the Southern EMUs I saw day in, day out - now look what you can get!

I was really impressed by the Hornby class 110 when it came out, and was glad to get one as a Christmas present, but it was a very odd choice of prototype with a very small range of applications - a 101, 104 or 108 would have been better.

Even worse was Hornby's decision to model the class 29 long after its incredibly short and unsuccessful career was over. It wasn't even a good model.

I was growing up at the other end of the country to you but found the range of model trains on offer perplexing - a 29 when all I really wanted was a 26 or 27 like on my local lines (thankfully Lima came to the rescue, eventually)... I could get a 107 or 110 (of which there were a few dozen on the network) but not a 101 (of which there were hundreds in real life, including where I lived)... so I had a layout with various unfamiliar niche locomotives/units...

...I'm not sure why both Hornby and Lima seemed to focus on the diesel hydraulics so much, maybe there was some kind of Western Region powerbase in model railway purchasing and they had to cater to them with 35/42/52s, but it did seem like manufacturers focussed a bit much on that area - the grasses always greener though!
 

Ianno87

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Just randomly thinking about how busy Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg is, and with allsorts of people amd walks of life - clearly there is a market for looking at "proper" model railways.
 

raetiamann

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Interesting point there from GusB regarding getting hold of second hand models for pocket money prices. I'd guess many of us used the second hand route, especially in our early modelling days, and yet now, that route doesn't seems anywhere near as accessible as it was. Hatton/Rails second hand prices are around those of new stock, indeed a few months back Rails had a Hornby class 60 2nd hand on their eBay site around £20.00 more than they were selling the identical model new. I've seen coaches on eBay with asking prices into three figures.

Maybe the Covid effect on swapmeets has resulted in the high levels in the used markets, but I can see that may be an issue for modellers on a tight budget.
 

tbtc

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Interesting point there from GusB regarding getting hold of second hand models for pocket money prices. I'd guess many of us used the second hand route, especially in our early modelling days, and yet now, that route doesn't seems anywhere near as accessible as it was. Hatton/Rails second hand prices are around those of new stock, indeed a few months back Rails had a Hornby class 60 2nd hand on their eBay site around £20.00 more than they were selling the identical model new. I've seen coaches on eBay with asking prices into three figures.

Maybe the Covid effect on swapmeets has resulted in the high levels in the used markets, but I can see that may be an issue for modellers on a tight budget.

eBay has its uses, but one of the big downsides (for me) is that everyone now knows the market value of things - when I were a lad (!) you could pick up bargains in "flea markets"/ charity shops/ jumble sales/ swapmeets because the seller may not have known what people were willing to pay for an item - now they can go on eBay and use that price as a benchmark, it's a lot harder to find a true bargain, since the price is often inflated to the highest price that other people are willing to pay.

Plus people know that putting something on eBay can have a much higher audience than putting it in a shop window, so members of the Financially Prudent Community (like myself) can struggle!
 

reddragon

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eBay prices are often a joke these days, i recently saw a Bachmann S Stock set on there for over 1000! :lol:

I'm taking advantage of this lunacy and am selling some of my old stuff. Just got £12 for an old MGR wagon I paid £2 new!

I have just seen a class 20 go for £310 in London Transport colours
 

DB

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RR HSTs are a no brainer, but 2nd hand ex-Lima First Great Western mark 3 sell on ebay for £85, because they are not making them!

Most of the Hornby Mk3s aren't ex Lima - think it's only the TGS, 4-windowed buffet and sleeper which are.

eBay prices are often a joke these days, i recently saw a Bachmann S Stock set on there for over 1000! :lol:

Ebay is highly variable - and it's not always easy to predict what will go for a lot.
 
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