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Model Railways For The Over 10s/ Under 40s? (Will There Be Much Of A Model Railway Market In The 2030s/2040s?)

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Jozhua

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I've tried to make a small layout in OO gauge, but there isn't space for much that is interesting. I'd like to do maybe a city-type scene, with two closely placed local stations (probably not much scale further apart than some of the Manchester ones!), perhaps running a bit of freight through it alongside passenger lines.

I'd like to build something relatively contemporary, as I was only born in 2000! Steam locos are cool, don't get me wrong, but they don't appeal to me all that much when thinking of building a layout. There was plenty of rusty old stuff to look at on the network (and still is!), but not quite that old! The funny thing is, steam are the cheapest models to buy. Getting your hands on anything 60's/70's era onwards gets increasingly expensive until present, whereas little steam shunters are the cheapest models provided.

Among reviewers, detail seems to matter quite a lot, but there isn't much emphasis on price. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't resent the high end of the market and I think it's cool that quality products like that exist. However, when asking what scale to work at, detail seems to come up more than cost. Which to me is funny, because you gain the ability to extend the scope of your project if the cost isn't ridiculous.

Legitimately asking for recommendations:

I'm thinking of trying some N gauge stuff, don't have anything of that size to begin with though, so I'd be starting from scratch. Z gauge is quite interesting to me, but I think it is limited to one manufacturer?

I'd be looking at building in a space equivalent to a couple of shoeboxes, can anyone advise me how much I could fit in that at each given gauge and how much it would cost to get started?
 
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reddragon

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I've tried to make a small layout in OO gauge, but there isn't space for much that is interesting. I'd like to do maybe a city-type scene, with two closely placed local stations (probably not much scale further apart than some of the Manchester ones!), perhaps running a bit of freight through it alongside passenger lines.

I'd like to build something relatively contemporary, as I was only born in 2000! Steam locos are cool, don't get me wrong, but they don't appeal to me all that much when thinking of building a layout. There was plenty of rusty old stuff to look at on the network (and still is!), but not quite that old! The funny thing is, steam are the cheapest models to buy. Getting your hands on anything 60's/70's era onwards gets increasingly expensive until present, whereas little steam shunters are the cheapest models provided.

Among reviewers, detail seems to matter quite a lot, but there isn't much emphasis on price. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't resent the high end of the market and I think it's cool that quality products like that exist. However, when asking what scale to work at, detail seems to come up more than cost. Which to me is funny, because you gain the ability to extend the scope of your project if the cost isn't ridiculous.

Legitimately asking for recommendations:

I'm thinking of trying some N gauge stuff, don't have anything of that size to begin with though, so I'd be starting from scratch. Z gauge is quite interesting to me, but I think it is limited to one manufacturer?

I'd be looking at building in a space equivalent to a couple of shoeboxes, can anyone advise me how much I could fit in that at each given gauge and how much it would cost to get started?

For OO gauge look at Lima locos, Mainline / Airfix coaches and Lima / Hornby wagons and you'll get fairly modern and cheap enough.

I got a 92 for £35, Mainline coaches <£10 etc but look beyond ebay. Hattons have some 2nd hand bargains as do local model shops.
 

birchesgreen

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I'm thinking of trying some N gauge stuff, don't have anything of that size to begin with though, so I'd be starting from scratch. Z gauge is quite interesting to me, but I think it is limited to one manufacturer?

I'd be looking at building in a space equivalent to a couple of shoeboxes, can anyone advise me how much I could fit in that at each given gauge and how much it would cost to get started?

Even with N and Z you'll struggle to get much other than a little shunting diorama in that space. You could probably get up such a thing in N for about a hundred quid (including a second hand shunter).
 

DB

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I'm thinking of trying some N gauge stuff, don't have anything of that size to begin with though, so I'd be starting from scratch. Z gauge is quite interesting to me, but I think it is limited to one manufacturer?

I'd be looking at building in a space equivalent to a couple of shoeboxes, can anyone advise me how much I could fit in that at each given gauge and how much it would cost to get started?

Depends what type of layout you want, but there are a number of one and 2-car DMUs available which would suit a small urban-themed layout.

Dapol's 142, 153 and 156 are all pretty good. Farish do a 158 and 170, although both of those are quite old models now. There are a number of 1st gen DMUs available too.
 

Jozhua

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Even with N and Z you'll struggle to get much other than a little shunting diorama in that space. You could probably get up such a thing in N for about a hundred quid (including a second hand shunter).
Yeah, Z or T seems quite appealing, but given how specialist they are, it may cost more. Been as I'd be essentially starting from scratch switching to another gauge, going smaller than N is a valid option.

Can someone advise me on the cost differences between HO, N, Z and T?
Depends what type of layout you want, but there are a number of one and 2-car DMUs available which would suit a small urban-themed layout.

Dapol's 142, 153 and 156 are all pretty good. Farish do a 158 and 170, although both of those are quite old models now. There are a number of 1st gen DMUs available too.
Nice! I'll have to have a look at those.

I might look at the practicality of creating my own stock for cheaper. Just use base power units and find a company to 3d print bodyshells. I'm not amazing at Maya, but not completely lost either, so I could probably give it a crack!
 

birchesgreen

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Yeah, Z or T seems quite appealing, but given how specialist they are, it may cost more. Been as I'd be essentially starting from scratch switching to another gauge, going smaller than N is a valid option.

Can someone advise me on the cost differences between HO, N, Z and T?

British N will be the cheapest of those, you can get HO stuff for a reasonably price especially second hand.
 

Peter Kelford

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29 Nov 2017
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903
I've tried to make a small layout in OO gauge, but there isn't space for much that is interesting. I'd like to do maybe a city-type scene, with two closely placed local stations (probably not much scale further apart than some of the Manchester ones!), perhaps running a bit of freight through it alongside passenger lines.

I'd like to build something relatively contemporary, as I was only born in 2000! Steam locos are cool, don't get me wrong, but they don't appeal to me all that much when thinking of building a layout. There was plenty of rusty old stuff to look at on the network (and still is!), but not quite that old! The funny thing is, steam are the cheapest models to buy. Getting your hands on anything 60's/70's era onwards gets increasingly expensive until present, whereas little steam shunters are the cheapest models provided.

Among reviewers, detail seems to matter quite a lot, but there isn't much emphasis on price. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't resent the high end of the market and I think it's cool that quality products like that exist. However, when asking what scale to work at, detail seems to come up more than cost. Which to me is funny, because you gain the ability to extend the scope of your project if the cost isn't ridiculous.

Legitimately asking for recommendations:

I'm thinking of trying some N gauge stuff, don't have anything of that size to begin with though, so I'd be starting from scratch. Z gauge is quite interesting to me, but I think it is limited to one manufacturer?

I'd be looking at building in a space equivalent to a couple of shoeboxes, can anyone advise me how much I could fit in that at each given gauge and how much it would cost to get started?
Well, to start with, how much space are we actually talking about?

Regarding costs, among the smaller scales as people say N gauge, and more often than not British is likely to be cheaper. As you go even smaller prices start going up. With diesels and electrics the pricing gap between the UK and abroad is far, far lower than with steam.

If you can buy it in the right places Japanese N and American HO are the cheapest in my experience.
 

Fyldeboy

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I've tried to make a small layout in OO gauge, but there isn't space for much that is interesting. I'd like to do maybe a city-type scene, with two closely placed local stations (probably not much scale further apart than some of the Manchester ones!), perhaps running a bit of freight through it alongside passenger lines.

I'd like to build something relatively contemporary, as I was only born in 2000! Steam locos are cool, don't get me wrong, but they don't appeal to me all that much when thinking of building a layout. There was plenty of rusty old stuff to look at on the network (and still is!), but not quite that old! The funny thing is, steam are the cheapest models to buy. Getting your hands on anything 60's/70's era onwards gets increasingly expensive until present, whereas little steam shunters are the cheapest models provided.

Among reviewers, detail seems to matter quite a lot, but there isn't much emphasis on price. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't resent the high end of the market and I think it's cool that quality products like that exist. However, when asking what scale to work at, detail seems to come up more than cost. Which to me is funny, because you gain the ability to extend the scope of your project if the cost isn't ridiculous.

Legitimately asking for recommendations:

I'm thinking of trying some N gauge stuff, don't have anything of that size to begin with though, so I'd be starting from scratch. Z gauge is quite interesting to me, but I think it is limited to one manufacturer?

I'd be looking at building in a space equivalent to a couple of shoeboxes, can anyone advise me how much I could fit in that at each given gauge and how much it would cost to get started?

I can't offer 'advice' per-se but I can empathise with your emotions, having soon realised that I'd never get an interesting OO/HO in the space I have available, so I've plumped for N, which should work for me whilst having quite good availability. I'll admit, we still had passenger steam 'when I was a lad', so I'm a bit older than you (so's my son!), but I worked on the railway in the diesel era, so have plenty of interest in that. Like so many, I was gutted at the demise of the HST!
Keep the enthusiasm, look at obstacles as challenges and take pride when you solve them :)
 

43066

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I think an important factor not discussed here is simulators. I suspect that in no small part the reason many people went for model trains was because that was the only way to do their hobby at home. Nowadays, you could build a model railway, but given the relative ease, and far greater opportunities presented by simming, it's no surprise to see that physical models have taken a dive in popularity, and I suspect the same is true for other genres of 'toy' as well - why build an airfix kit when you could play any manner of flight/combat sim, etc. The toy market has gone digital
There’s been some really interesting comments about simulators on this thread. I wonder how many people have drifted into the hobby via that interest?

Fascinating thread.

I suspect simulators are a massive factor. Let’s face it train (and flight) simulators these days are so graphically impressive that they are now difficult to distinguish from reality. That will take care of the “playing trains” aspect of the hobby far better (and far more cheaply) than an 00 gauge model ever could.

Historically a massive part of the appeal of modelling has clearly the physical process of scratch building, weathering etc. I wonder if this aspect also holds less appeal to people of my generation and below, because we perhaps tend to be rather less “practical” than our parents’ generation.

Dare I say it people tend to have shorter attention spans these days, and expect instant gratification, rather than patiently building models and baseboards with intricate scenery.

Looking on the bright side I’ve been to a couple of very well attended exhibitions over the last few years - no less well attended than the ones I remember going to as a young child - perhaps it is something that people come into as they get older and have more time on their hands. I remember being amazed at how expensive some of the models are these days - there were four car 00 gauge mk1 DMUs being sold for high hundreds of pounds. I can’t remember the name of the make, but it wasn’t the standard Hornby type stuff.
 

Journeyman

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It's been in the news today that Hornby have done very well during the lockdown, with very healthy online sales, so it's interesting to see that enforced time at home has fuelled a boom in modelling.
 

Cowley

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Fascinating thread.

I suspect simulators are a massive factor. Let’s face it train (and flight) simulators these days are so graphically impressive that they are now difficult to distinguish from reality. That will take care of the “playing trains” aspect of the hobby far better (and far more cheaply) than an 00 gauge model ever could.

Historically a massive part of the appeal of modelling has clearly the physical process of scratch building, weathering etc. I wonder if this aspect also holds less appeal to people of my generation and below, because we perhaps tend to be rather less “practical” than our parents’ generation.

Dare I say it people tend to have shorter attention spans these days, and expect instant gratification, rather than patiently building models and baseboards with intricate scenery.

Looking on the bright side I’ve been to a couple of very well attended exhibitions over the last few years - no less well attended than the ones I remember going to as a young child - perhaps it is something that people come into as they get older and have more time on their hands. I remember being amazed at how expensive some of the models are these days - there were four car 00 gauge mk1 DMUs being sold for high hundreds of pounds. I can’t remember the name of the make, but it wasn’t the standard Hornby type stuff.
I must say that I agree with pretty much all of that @43066. Great post.

There are some interesting new model manufacturers on the market these days doing really excellent niche models, but my word they’re expensive!


It's been in the news today that Hornby have done very well during the lockdown, with very healthy online sales, so it's interesting to see that enforced time at home has fuelled a boom in modelling.
It’s been really interesting watching this section of the forum this year and how people have got involved.
There’s definitely a good little community on here now and I think a lot of us have started getting on with projects that we’ve thought about doing for a while but not necessarily had the time at home to get stuck into it before this year.
 

GusB

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Fascinating thread.

I suspect simulators are a massive factor. Let’s face it train (and flight) simulators these days are so graphically impressive that they are now difficult to distinguish from reality. That will take care of the “playing trains” aspect of the hobby far better (and far more cheaply) than an 00 gauge model ever could.

Historically a massive part of the appeal of modelling has clearly the physical process of scratch building, weathering etc. I wonder if this aspect also holds less appeal to people of my generation and below, because we perhaps tend to be rather less “practical” than our parents’ generation.

Dare I say it people tend to have shorter attention spans these days, and expect instant gratification, rather than patiently building models and baseboards with intricate scenery.

Yes and no. I played around with OpenBVE for a while, and then TrainSim. While I enjoyed the experience of being in the virtual cab, that's just what it was - virtual. I think that even in these days of "instant gratification", there's much to be said for having a physical object to display that allows you to say "I did that". The problem with virtual achievements is that only other people in that same virtual world are able to see what you've done. When you have something tangible to present for your efforts, it's easier to justify such a waste of time to the domestic authorities when they complain about the shelf that you haven't put up yet... :)
It's been in the news today that Hornby have done very well during the lockdown, with very healthy online sales, so it's interesting to see that enforced time at home has fuelled a boom in modelling.
I only briefly heard this on the news earlier, but wasn't it something like a third that their sales had increased by?
 

reddragon

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Also, I think the hobby of having model rail stuff isn't as expensive as other hobbies. If you buy when the prices are low on your model you can sell it on eBay later at a similar price.

I am selling my older stock for a price higher than I bought it years ago and am buying off a long wish list any items that are well below new cost on the basis I could sell them in a few years and not loose out. Few other hobbies offer that!

You can also buy really cheap older Hornby & Lima, repair them yourself and paint them up.

I never got into computer games, tried them when young, got bored. My son as a gamer, but again, I play his games once or twice then bored! Why would I want to sit in front of a screen for hours driving a loco somewhere? Boring!!

I do agree that railway layouts require your own space and time and money. Few young people have that available to them. My first layout was in my bedroom, then my parents loft. After a 20+ year break I've got back into it. You can't do model railways with family life etc.
 

hst43102

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Just discovered this thread, it answers a lot of questions I've had, and poses a lot more!

I'm one of the younger generation of railway enthusiasts - I'm not sure if I'm in generation X or Y or Z or whatever, but let's just say I was born near the start of the new milennium!

I've always wanted a model railway, but unfortunately the cost for a good layout is astronomical. Even second hand locos are often over £100.

Does anyone know why N gauge is so expensive? I don't have space for an 00 layout, but the N gauge locomotives are even more expensive than the 00 gauge ones, despite being half the size!
 

Journeyman

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Does anyone know why N gauge is so expensive? I don't have space for an 00 layout, but the N gauge locomotives are even more expensive than the 00 gauge ones, despite being half the size!

The price is down to the difficulties involved in producing things so small and complex. An N gauge loco requires a lot of precision engineering and the tolerances are much tighter than OO, so it's down to the fact that it needs micro-engineering techniques you don't need for OO. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect it's perfectly possible for an N gauge loco to cost quite a lot more to manufacture than an equivalent OO one.
 

Peter Kelford

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Does anyone know why N gauge is so expensive? I don't have space for an 00 layout, but the N gauge locomotives are even more expensive than the 00 gauge ones, despite being half the size!
The cost of plastic, metal and paint are essentially marginal. It's like the cost of the salt in caviar, or the price of your sugar in a cup of coffee. The price comes down to the moulds and those things don't cost less than in OO. The fact that as we are orientated around operations more means that some detail can be excluded the smaller we go but fundamentally the costs do not change.
 

Jozhua

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I think a good way of shaking up the industry would be to use the standard micro-electronics increasingly seen in things like drones, or smartphone vibrate motors to create cheaper powered chassis.

Then you could offer people the option to 3D print, or choose from some pre-made models to put on top. It may not have quite the same accuracy, but people could get the basic shapes of locos and MU's they recognise out and about on the network.

It seems like a gap in the market, but then the market is probably biased towards those who can afford the space.
 

RichJF

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It's been in the news today that Hornby have done very well during the lockdown, with very healthy online sales, so it's interesting to see that enforced time at home has fuelled a boom in modelling.
Hornby also own Airfix, who've done well in the lockdown & 'stay at home' era. Interestingly enough, the price of Airfix model kits has skyrocketed in the last few years vs the competition & isn't much different. It might be mirroring the trend in model railways (certainly Hornby).

I have a stack of old OO gauge stuff in my parents' loft but zero space to set it up in own apartment, despite desperately wanting to do so. It's also prohibitively expensive despite having a stable 9-5 job. I have a friend who's basically feeding of scraps & lower end of 2nd hand model market despite being on a very good job & living at home (paying bills).

By chance I was looking at some American model N/HO gauge stock & the price of this seems to be a bit cheaper compared to the European stuff and not a massive drop in quality comparatively either.
 
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