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More bad news for Scottish residents

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kez19

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Exactly. Remember the petrol panic? There was never a fuel shortage but enough idiots fell for it which then caused a shortage.

Oh yes that one…

The BBC are now attempting to row back on this, calling it an appeal, not an instruction. But the damage is now done. I haven't dared look at Sky News.

Can that be classed as misinformation? Or just a “media” agenda?

Whatever happened to getting facts first/right than speculation? (the media I speak of)


I’ll leave it here and let people decide amongst themselves.
 
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21C101

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"Within an hour of Sturgeon's suggestion to cancel Christmas parties, a bar manager in Aberdeen tells me 100 people have already cancelled bookings.

Because it is only guidance, they are not eligible for any financial support to help mitigate massive loss of revenue"

This (above) is why Boris isn't going anywhere. Whatever he does, she goes further right on cue.

Until Labour or another Unionist Party can win a large number of Scottish seats the only question at future elections is whether or not the Tories will win a majority or just miss out and need the Democratic Unionists to prop them up.

An updated version of this will be deployed.

 
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brad465

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This (above) is why Boris isn't going anywhere. Whatever he does, she goes further right on cue.

Until Labour or another Unionist Party can win a large number of Scottish seats the only question at future elections is whether or not the Tories will win a majority or just miss out and need the Democratic Unionists to prop them up.

An updated version of this will be deployed.

Out of interest, do you have any suggestions of how Labour can win Scottish seats in the current climate, apart from, which they obviously are not doing, outright opposing the restrictions Sturgeon is implementing and providing comprehensive evidence to backup such a stance? Scottish Labour Leader Anas Sarwar has been critical of vaccine passports, but in a Westminster election his stance won't be as effective.

There is also another reason Johnson won't be going anywhere immediately, which is an alternative replacement is not clear within the Tory ranks, as seen by other Tory MPs.
 

Huntergreed

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I see Swinney is saying more rules could come (which means they will) next week:

Mr Swinney said: "We are looking at whether we need to take further measures to try to arrest the circulation of the virus. We had a huge rise in cases yesterday and that suggests we have an escalating problem.
"The government is wrestling with the challenge of what are the right rules to have in place over this weekend. We will share details of any changes with parliament over the next few days."
Mr Swinney said there was a danger of the virus overwhelming public and private services, but said he hoped a restricted Christmas would not happen.
He said the Scottish government was "working very hard" to avoid this by asking the public to reduce social interaction and take lateral flow tests.
"We are encouraging people to take these steps so that we can protect the precious time that is Christmas time for families," he added.
"We know how hard that was last year and we want to avoid a repeat of that."

And Linda Bauld is saying Lockdown is now on the table as a last resort

Prof Bauld said: "Everybody wants to avoid shutting businesses again and that would be the last resort, but clearly across the country, decision-makers have to look at the menu of options and decide what is proportionate."
She said lockdown was a last resort, but people may be asked to cut back on socialising plans.


Someone remind me why I bothered getting my jabs? I thought we were promised freedom once the population was vaccinated, not lockdown...
 

Eyersey468

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I see Swinney is saying more rules could come (which means they will) next week:



And Linda Bauld is saying Lockdown is now on the table as a last resort




Someone remind me why I bothered getting my jabs? I thought we were promised freedom once the population was vaccinated, not lockdown...
We were but that was clearly yet another lie.
 

Berliner

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I don't believe these restrictions will be followed by many. Indeed I don't know anyone who would adhere to any kind of Christmas lockdown or travel restrictions this time around. Far too many have made plans this year, done what has been asked and wrote off last year. Added to that, far too many companies are no longer taking the same approach to refunds and rebookings as they did last winter, so people stand to lose money.

While I'm sure the government in Holyrood are itching to be seen to be doing something, no matter how unnecessary it is this year, they are going to be in for a shock with just how little it's adhered to, especially with vast swathes of the population now triple vaccinated, using vaccine passports or testing regularly. We simply have to accept this virus is here. Containment is absolutely pointless. If you're Vaccinated and still end up in hospital then that's very unfortunate, and who knows, I may be one of them, but the number of people in that situation will be so small that it really defies all logic to use them as an excuse to bring in more restrictions.
 

geoffk

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Is the stricter approach to Covid rules in Scotland (and Wales) just about politics and, if not, is it backed up by evidence that it's a more effective approach?
 

takno

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Is the stricter approach to Covid rules in Scotland (and Wales) just about politics and, if not, is it backed up by evidence that it's a more effective approach?
It's difficult to prove anything, but the persistently high infection rates in Wales, and broadly similar infection rates in Scotland and England since July do rather suggest that the stricter approach to Covid is, on the balance of probabilities, a waste of time and goodwill. Judging by central Edinburgh over the last few days, nobody is taking anything any more seriously than they did the previous week or indeed the previous month.

Some people in Scotland enjoy wearing masks because it makes them feel morally superior to England, and some people are genuinely scared and believe they help. Most people are just doing it though because the government said so and they can't be bothered to argue. People I know who are scared of offices are working from home (and slightly suspiciously all wanted to work from home before Covid anyway). People who are working in offices are glad to be there and generally disinclined to try working from home all the time again.

In essence, by not removing the recommendations and restrictions over the summer, the Scottish government has left themselves with no levers to pull, and no way to look proactive without doing something dangerous.
 

kez19

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Is the stricter approach to Covid rules in Scotland (and Wales) just about politics and, if not, is it backed up by evidence that it's a more effective approach?

I’ve always read it as political (but that’s my view) and the whole stupidity of it ie vertical drinking and no singing/dancing

I don't believe these restrictions will be followed by many. Indeed I don't know anyone who would adhere to any kind of Christmas lockdown or travel restrictions this time around. Far too many have made plans this year, done what has been asked and wrote off last year. Added to that, far too many companies are no longer taking the same approach to refunds and rebookings as they did last winter, so people stand to lose money.

While I'm sure the government in Holyrood are itching to be seen to be doing something, no matter how unnecessary it is this year, they are going to be in for a shock with just how little it's adhered to, especially with vast swathes of the population now triple vaccinated, using vaccine passports or testing regularly. We simply have to accept this virus is here. Containment is absolutely pointless. If you're Vaccinated and still end up in hospital then that's very unfortunate, and who knows, I may be one of them, but the number of people in that situation will be so small that it really defies all logic to use them as an excuse to bring in more restrictions.

This I agree with and I’m triple vaccinated but like majority of politicians they break promises, will we actually see people turn on them or will just accept it?

On the other I do believe public trust is fading and fading fast.

I see Swinney is saying more rules could come (which means they will) next week:



And Linda Bauld is saying Lockdown is now on the table as a last resort




Someone remind me why I bothered getting my jabs? I thought we were promised freedom once the population was vaccinated, not lockdown...

I just find it ironic they say for us to cut back on social contact, do we really expect them to do the same?

As to your question of getting jabbed to freedom (I had my own gut instinct back in the beginning something wasn’t right but then goalposting happened).

I believe the public will do what they feel is best but I don’t think people are going to let Christmas walk by.
 
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Huntergreed

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New restrictions (yet to be confirmed exactly what) have been confirmed for tomorrow:

New Covid restrictions in Scotland are "inevitable", Health Secretary Humza Yousaf has warned.
He said the "sheer weight" of cases of the new Omicron variant could overwhelm the NHS and precautions would have to be taken.
It came as one teaching union called for the early closure of schools to protect pupils and staff.
Mr Yousaf said the government would do everything it could to keep schools open.
Details of the restrictions would be given by the first minister in Holyrood on Tuesday, he added.

Given they can’t really extend masks any further, is this likely the expansion of the certification scheme? Or potentially a return to social distancing? I worry there may be business closures as the article says:

He added that securing financial support from the UK government would be very important.

Scientists have also came out and explicitly said the vaccines/booster isn’t enough to protect against the new variant:

Scientists say Omicron's higher rate of transmissibility meant cases were doubling every two or three days.

However Prof Andrew Waterson, a public health expert from Stirling University, cautioned against an "over-reliance" on vaccines and stressed the booster campaign was "only one important strand".

"Boosters - yes. But other measures as well," he added.

Last week the first minister asked people to "defer" their Christmas parties and rules on self-isolation of household contacts were tightened.

Prof Waterson emphasised the importance of good ventilation and he said taking children out of school might be "very wise indeed".

(source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59634454)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do fear we are heading for a new year national lockdown.
 

Eyersey468

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New restrictions (yet to be confirmed exactly what) have been confirmed for tomorrow:



Given they can’t really extend masks any further, is this likely the expansion of the certification scheme? Or potentially a return to social distancing? I worry there may be business closures as the article says:



Scientists have also came out and explicitly said the vaccines/booster isn’t enough to protect against the new variant:



(source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59634454)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do fear we are heading for a new year national lockdown.
This is my concern too, another one would finish off a lot of the economy.
 

adc82140

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Oh look, scientists moving the goalposts again before the game has even started. :rolleyes:
I'd like them to explain how that is, bearing in mind that only 2 days ago they said the booster offered 75% protection against symptomatic infection, and same same level as 2 jabs did for Delta against severe illness and death.

One person has died with Omicron so far. Out of probably 150 daily covid "deaths" . Double jabbed people have died with the Delta variant. No one ever said that there would be no deaths. I still maintain that the South Africans are correct.
 

Mag_seven

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I'd like them to explain how that is, bearing in mind that only 2 days ago they said the booster offered 75% protection against symptomatic infection, and same same level as 2 jabs did for Delta against severe illness and death.

One person has died with Omicron so far. Out of probably 150 daily covid "deaths" . Double jabbed people have died with the Delta variant. No one ever said that there would be no deaths. I still maintain that the South Africans are correct.

Its clear that there is a vociferous minority in the field of public health who regardless of treatments or vaccines want us to live under anti-COVID restrictions for ever. They have the ear of left wing governments like the SNP and increasingly the so called "right wing" government of the UK. We are living in very disturbing times.
 

kez19

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Oh look, scientists moving the goalposts again before the game has even started. :rolleyes:

Scientists that championed the vaccines now say differently (nothing new), but I bet the likes of the media will keep them employed for the fear factor again

New restrictions (yet to be confirmed exactly what) have been confirmed for tomorrow:



Given they can’t really extend masks any further, is this likely the expansion of the certification scheme? Or potentially a return to social distancing? I worry there may be business closures as the article says:



Scientists have also came out and explicitly said the vaccines/booster isn’t enough to protect against the new variant:



(source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59634454)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do fear we are heading for a new year national lockdown.

Repeating a never ending cycle.
 

Scotrail314209

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New restrictions (yet to be confirmed exactly what) have been confirmed for tomorrow:



Given they can’t really extend masks any further, is this likely the expansion of the certification scheme? Or potentially a return to social distancing? I worry there may be business closures as the article says:



Scientists have also came out and explicitly said the vaccines/booster isn’t enough to protect against the new variant:



(source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59634454)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do fear we are heading for a new year national lockdown.
All I can say to them is:

"No thanks."
 

Huntergreed

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Now a 3 household mixing limit and, most frustratingly, mandatory social distancing is back :(
 

Andyh82

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"First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the advice would not apply on Christmas Day and that plans should not be cancelled"

I presume this part will receive major ridicule from the media, comedians on chat shows etc

No I thought not
 

duncanp

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Now a 3 household mixing limit and, most frustratingly, mandatory social distancing is back :(

Er, how is the Scottish government going to enforce the 3 household mixing limit?

I can't see the Police Scotland sending out officers round the rougher parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh on Christmas Day, or especially Hogmanay, and checking whether people in gatherings are from a maximum of three households.

And what about that street party in Edinbugh on Hogmanay? Is having an event of this kind consistent with the Scottish government's updated guidance?
 

brad465

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Now a 3 household mixing limit and, most frustratingly, mandatory social distancing is back :(
I wonder how long this will last without financial support to affected firms and workers? Businesses in Scotland should come out in unison to both oppose and threaten major cutbacks in response, in an attempt to force a change and/or damage the SNP's credibility.
 

Berliner

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Er, how is the Scottish government going to enforce the 3 household mixing limit?

I can't see the Police Scotland sending out officers round the rougher parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh on Christmas Day, or especially Hogmanay, and checking whether people in gatherings are from a maximum of three households.

And what about that street party in Edinbugh on Hogmanay? Is having an event of this kind consistent with the Scottish government's updated guidance?

They aren't legally backed, she has stated it's only a request, so no enforcement whatsoever.

Other than the social distancing in retail and hospitality. That's a legal requirement.
 

duncanp

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I wonder how long this will last without financial support to affected firms and workers? Businesses in Scotland should come out in unison to both oppose and threaten major cutbacks in response, in an attempt to force a change and/or damage the SNP's credibility.

Predictably Nicola Sturgeon is blaming Westminster for not giving her additional money which would enable her to go further.

She said that the Scottish government does not have to the means to borrow the money required.

Yes, but it does have the tax raising powers, so they could increase taxes in Scotland to pay for the cost of the additional measures they think are necessary, and be accountable to the people of Scotland for the consequences of those increased taxes.
 

Berliner

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This is a good approach that appeals to individuals to take a societal approach to help protect each other.

It allows people to make their own decisions, well, other than hospitality and retailers, but at least it's not as far as she could have gone.

I'm under no illusion that this is the last of it though. They will almost certainly change thier minds between now and Christmas and although I hope not, I expect a very bleak start to 2022.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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It allows people to make their own decisions, well, other than hospitality and retailers, but at least it's not as far as she could have gone.

I'm under no illusion that this is the last of it though. They will almost certainly change thier minds between now and Christmas and although I hope not, I expect a very bleak start to 2022.
Maybe but you never know it may not play out as expected given the continuing positive feedback from South Africa's medical community.
 

Eyersey468

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It allows people to make their own decisions, well, other than hospitality and retailers, but at least it's not as far as she could have gone.

I'm under no illusion that this is the last of it though. They will almost certainly change thier minds between now and Christmas and although I hope not, I expect a very bleak start to 2022.
I'd be surprised if 2022 doesn't start off very bleakly as well
 

Ex-controller

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Honestly, living in Scotland feels like such a slog at times just now. The insistence on stricter measures than England at every turn strikes me as politics. I accepted them at the start of the pandemic, but it’s been done far too many times now.

A lot of people will disregard this ‘appeal/guidance/plea’ to restrict household mixing to 3. These things have been asked of them one too many times.

Those in charge of a health system which could be overwhelmed by lack of capacity implying that the spread of the virus is due to ordinary members of the public and their desire to socialise, is manipulative in the extreme. I sometimes feel like I’m the only person who sees this.
 

Scotrail314209

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Honestly, living in Scotland feels like such a slog at times just now. The insistence on stricter measures than England at every turn strikes me as politics. I accepted them at the start of the pandemic, but it’s been done far too many times now.

A lot of people will disregard this ‘appeal/guidance/plea’ to restrict household mixing to 3. These things have been asked of them one too many times.

Those in charge of a health system which could be overwhelmed by lack of capacity implying that the spread of the virus is due to ordinary members of the public and their desire to socialise, is manipulative in the extreme. I sometimes feel like I’m the only person who sees this.
Agreed. Genuinely agreed.

Sometimes I feel like I'd be better off upping sticks and moving.
 
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