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More bad news for Scottish residents

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haggishunter

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You mean public opinion being that people will happily embrace having some paid time off work, but I bet doesn’t extend quite so far as cancelling a second Christmas?
Both personally and from a work perspective would vastly prefer to cancel Christmas than lose another ski season or have it restricted to locals only again!
 
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Cdd89

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As others said, a couple of train journeys last two days in Scotland - almost full compliance with the mask mandate.
Compliance with a mandatory mask requirement is not a true barometer of public opinion, because those who want masking are mixed in with those who just don’t want a fine/don’t want to break the law. I’d suggest travelling on a few services in England!
 

bramling

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Compliance with a mandatory mask requirement is not a true barometer of public opinion, because those who want masking are mixed in with those who just don’t want a fine/don’t want to break the law. I’d suggest travelling on a few services in England!

In particular LU, where masks are mandatory by Khan’s rules, but not by law. Compliance has hovered around 50% or less since July. I’d say it’s more around 30-40% now, despite some hefty publicity by Khan.

If one works on the basis that a proportion of those wearing them will only be doing it on the basis that they don’t want any bother, this doesn’t leave many true mask obsessives.

London doesn’t seem to be doing too badly in the Covid league tables either, unlike Scotland it would seem.
 

RPI

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I'd say with masks (in England) its more the leisure/travel once a year brigade that aren't wearing masks, the highest mask wearing i see is on the commuter trains where its probably 50/50
 

HSTEd

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So if she goes for social distancing/gathering restrictions, how is she going to find the money to compensate the hospitality sector, or will she just let businesses go to the wall?
She will just demand that Westminster provide her unlimited money for this, and use the business failures as an example of the necessity of independence.
 

haggishunter

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London doesn’t seem to be doing too badly in the Covid league tables either, unlike Scotland it would seem.
It seems to be a belief for some active participants in this sub-forum that covid prevalence is so high that Scotland is like a Covid infested scene from the doomsday film!

The latest data from ONS that covers much of the week were travelling tabby showed prevalence being higher in Scotland than England recently was 1 in 95 for Scotland vs 1 in 65 for England. This suggests these bumps were the effect of differential school holidays on testing.

FB19E36D-46DB-4565-AE6E-DCE630F5E6CF.jpeg
Scotland has been fairly flat for around 8 weeks and almost all of that period had the lowest prevalence per 100k.

31061807-E4A3-44BB-96A9-83CF63A3BD88.jpeg

I can’t find figures as up to date as yesterday for Greater London, but the 7 day figure as of 16th was 301 cases per 100k - so yes it’s lower currently, but it’s a good deal below the U.K. as a whole.

If you look at it as a comparison of biggest cities for each country, the comparable figure for Glasgow was 229 cases per 100k vs 301 in London.

The evidence it seems confirms the idea that England is doing better than Scotland in terms of infections isn’t the case and thus the idea being put forward that England is doing better because it doesn’t have Scotland’s mitigations is demonstrably a myth.
 

Berliner

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As others said, a couple of train journeys last two days in Scotland - almost full compliance with the mask mandate.

The vocal potential tourist not visiting from England because of x,y,z covid mitigation in Scotland is interesting… keep reading this online, but even tourist accommodation that would often be shut in November is doing a reasonable trade.

Speaking to the Kingshouse in Glencoe on Saturday and they were fully booked Thur, Fri and Sat - catering team is short and they were run off their feet. People very definitely are visiting the Highlands from across the UK and it may even be the case the mitigations are encouraging people who’s otherwise not travel at present to have a wee break. If you’ve been medically shielding over the first 18 months of the pandemic don’t under estimate the value of such short breaks and having the confidence to undertake them to those who’ve arguably had the toughest of times recently.

Tourism in Scotland is doing fine. I've heard more foreign and other UK accents on the streets of Edinburgh and Glasgow in recent weeks than I have for the last year or so and judging from my late night train journeys recently in and out of Edinburgh, the numbers of people going on nights out is extremely healthy. Speaking with friends in the airline industry, foreign visitors to Scotland from Europe and further afield are definitely on the up as well.

I know the relevant bodies like to moan about vaccine passports but from what I've seen they have nothing to worry about. For everyone on here who says they would shun a visit to Scotland or they would not go to a pub there appears to be just as many or more who are willing to fill their place. The only people losing out appear to be those staunchly against an app.

That's fine, each to their own, but this forum and the odd rant in comments sections on news websites are definitely the only places where I see such hostile reactions to the passport scheme. We don't appear to have streets filled with rioters demanding they are scrapped or mass boycotts of the scheme. I have yet to meet anyone in real life who doesn't just get on with it and accept it's probably here for the long term. It's preferable to being locked up at home again for rolling lockdowns. Even if it's a placebo, I'd take the passport app a million times over another open ended lock down or travel restrictions.

That said, I do think Sturgeon needs to drop this constant threat of more restrictions, but sadly, she won't as she seems fixated on cases...still. I don't know what it will take to get her to move on. She has managed to get extremely high levels of vaccination in Scotland, mask mandates are still broadly adhered to and the passport app is now up and running and likely going to be extended. She needs to just move on and tell the NHS talking heads that they need to live with this, like the rest of society has been doing for months now, not every single life can be saved, not every single Covid case can be avoided. If she brings in more restrictions or indeed keeps telling us she's thinking of it, then it'll start to unravel quickly.
 

Cdd89

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he evidence it seems confirms the idea that England is doing better than Scotland in terms of infections isn’t the case and thus the idea being put forward that England is doing better because it doesn’t have Scotland’s mitigations is demonstrably a myth.
How effective do we think Scotland’s mitigations are?

If they’re highly effective, then that means Scotland’s base case rate is much higher compared to England with no mitigations.

If they’re not very effective, then that means Scotland have imposed a load of restrictions on people to minimal benefit.

Can’t have it both ways!
 

greyman42

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How effective do we think Scotland’s mitigations are?

If they’re highly effective, then that means Scotland’s base case rate is much higher compared to England with no mitigations.

If they’re not very effective, then that means Scotland have imposed a load of restrictions on people to minimal benefit.

Can’t have it both ways!
Whoever is doing "better", i don't think simply counting the number of infections is the best way to do it anymore.
 

Watershed

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The other side of the coin is those who avoid a busy pub or restaurant just now will be happier and more relaxed about going in.
I don't doubt there will be a few people falling into that camp - even though they would be doing so under a predominantly false sense of security. But they don't make up a sufficient percentage of people to make a notable difference.

No jags? Don't go out and risk infecting others.
Simple.
Vaccination only reduces the risk of infecting others to a limited degree (something on the order of 20-30% depending on vaccine type amongst other factors).

That must be offset against the increased likelihood that a vaccinated person is asymptomatic if they catch Covid, and therefore feel absolutely fine going into a restaurant...

If this were really about reducing the chances of infecting others, everyone would be required to take a test before entering the restaurant. Of course that would be wildly impractical and inconvenient, and would not catch 100% of cases, but it would certainly be more effective than requiring vaccine passports.

Vaccine passports are truly about forcing people to get vaccinated so as to reduce pressure on the NHS, but the whole premise is flawed because vaccine uptake in Scotland was already very high even before any mandate was on the cards, and it hasn't increased by any notable amount since then.

Politicians know they can get an easy ride if they make Covid about "us" and "them" - think how many times there has been a "public enemy no. 1" so far...
  • 'Dirty foreigners' bringing in the virus
  • 'Irresponsible' people engaging in 'non-essential travel' during lockdowns
  • 'Covidiots' not wearing masks
  • 'Dirty foreigners' bringing in variants
  • 'Antivaxxers' who refuse to get vaccinated
It makes their lives a million times easier than if they were straight with the public and admitted "we need to live with Covid, some people will die, some people may have longer term side effects, but we have no realistic option to stop it"...
 
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kez19

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Whoever is doing "better", i don't think simply counting the number of infections is the best way to do it anymore.

The thing is this has been on from the outset “who wore it better” it’s pathetic regardless of what peoples stances are in this (maybe media are the ones to blame here too?)
 

Class 33

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Public opinion (in England as well) is very much in favour of stricter measures - the naysayers are simply more vocal and, dare I say, bigoted.

Where do you get that idea from? Why then are roughly about 85% of people in England now no longer wearing face masks in shops, on public transport?? Doesn't that tell you something?! The vast majority of people have now had enough of wearing the ridiculous pointless things and decided to ditch them. The vast majority of people have had more than enough of these blasted "restrictions", "measures" or whatever you call them and don't want them to EVER come back again, and are getting back to a normal life.
 
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kylemore

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As others said, a couple of train journeys last two days in Scotland - almost full compliance with the mask mandate.
I suggest many, if not most are the same as me.

I play the stupid game but wear it below the nose unless I meet hostile eye contact, or to avoid any trouble slip it up when officialdom passes through.

Another tactic is to nurse a long empty coffee cup.
 

MattA7

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I notice it has been announced that Sturgeon will not be extending the vaccine passports or reintroducing restrictions on business/social distancing due to the drop in cases (or more likely Borris has told her he won’t be getting his cheque book out for her)

At least it’s a step in the right direction for once.
 

greyman42

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I suggest many, if not most are the same as me.

I play the stupid game but wear it below the nose unless I meet hostile eye contact, or to avoid any trouble slip it up when officialdom passes through.

Another tactic is to nurse a long empty coffee cup.
The best tactic is simply to claim an exemption. It worked fine for me in England when masks were mandated in various settings

I notice it has been announced that Sturgeon will not be extending the vaccine passports or reintroducing restrictions on business/social distancing due to the drop in cases (or more likely Borris has told her he won’t be getting his cheque book out for her)
Spot on.
 

Scotrail314209

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I notice it has been announced that Sturgeon will not be extending the vaccine passports or reintroducing restrictions on business/social distancing due to the drop in cases (or more likely Borris has told her he won’t be getting his cheque book out for her)

At least it’s a step in the right direction for once.
This is exactly why I believe Sturgeon will not introduce harsher restrictions on hospitality. Westminster has finished the furlough scheme, who will pay for it all?
 

Jonny

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I suggest many, if not most are the same as me.

I play the stupid game but wear it below the nose unless I meet hostile eye contact, or to avoid any trouble slip it up when officialdom passes through.

Another tactic is to nurse a long empty coffee cup.

The best tactic is simply to claim an exemption. It worked fine for me in England when masks were mandated in various settings


Spot on.

Better still, do both.
 

Scotrail314209

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Oh dear.



Nicola Sturgeon has called an emergency media briefing on coronavirus this morning (Monday) following confirmation that the new omicron variant has been found in Scotland.

Six cases have been identified; four in Lanarkshire and two in the Greater Glasgow and Clyde area.

Public Health Scotland has said that contact tracing is underway to establish the origin of the virus and any individuals those cases have come into contact with in recent weeks.

The First Minister announced today’s statement around 8am, and will appear on the Scottish Government’s Twitter feed at around 10.30am - marking a change from her usual lunchtime briefing slot.
 

Berliner

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If some of these people have caught it without going anywhere, which seems to he the case, it shows it's been circulating in Scotland for at least a few weeks and clearly isn't doing much damage. If anything cases have remained steady or have fallen, so let's hope she doesn't get trigger happy and ban us all from crossing Council boundaries again. However, I suspect she will at least say we shouldn't go to Glasgow.
 

kez19

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Yew

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If some of these people have caught it without going anywhere, which seems to he the case, it shows it's been circulating in Scotland for at least a few weeks and clearly isn't doing much damage. If anything cases have remained steady or have fallen, so let's hope she doesn't get trigger happy and ban us all from crossing Council boundaries again. However, I suspect she will at least say we shouldn't go to Glasgow.
I feel like “trigger happy politician wants to be seen to be doing something” is probably the main theme of the last two years..
 

Berliner

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I just find the timings coincidental for both UK/Scottish Government as wasn’t it less than couple weeks ago COP26 was in Glasgow?

Yes it ended on the 12th/13th November, so this seems about right.

It's clear this didn't start in South Africa, they were just the ones unlucky enough to find it. I dare say this reaction will put more countries off declaring new strains.
 

kez19

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Yes it ended on the 12th/13th November, so this seems about right.

It's clear this didn't start in South Africa, they were just the ones unlucky enough to find it. I dare say this reaction will put more countries off declaring new strains.

Just to go back on the 6 cases but weren’t they when it first started? (I’ll stand corrected if need be)

I feel like “trigger happy politician wants to be seen to be doing something” is probably the main theme of the last two years..

What’s the point though in this conference she’ll have much less of a clue as the 3 stooges did on Saturday? Why not for the sake of it that all the leaders in the UK (well I don’t know) work together than play “who wore it better”? On the other this could end up once again political point scoring.
 

brad465

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Sturgeon wants people testing much more before doing any mixing/socialising:


First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is urging people to "test much more" after six cases of the new Omicron variant of Covid were identified in Scotland.
Some of those affected have no travel history and are thought to have caught the virus in the community.
Ms Sturgeon asked people to "test before you go" with LFDs before mixing with other households, and for home working to be maximised by employers.
She called for increased compliance with steps to stop the virus' spread.
Ms Sturgeon and Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford also want to see tougher travel restrictions for people arriving in the UK.
There are four cases of the Omicron variant in Lanarkshire and two in Greater Glasgow and Clyde. Those affected are isolating but none are in hospital.

Contact tracing is taking place to establish the origin of the virus and to find anyone else those affected have come into contact with in recent weeks.
All close contacts of suspected Omicron cases will be advised to self-isolate for 10 days, regardless of their vaccination status.
Ms Sturgeon said additional testing would be introduced in areas where cases of the new variant are identified.
She said there was no evidence that community transmission was sustained or widespread at this stage - but that even limited community transmission underlined the importance of complying with the steps to tackle the spread of the virus.

For a long time I've held the view that the millions of tests a week we're doing is a waste of money that should be going towards improving healthcare services more widely, including covid. The only justification for testing I'd say is for those with symptoms who can then identify appropriate treatments.
 

Berliner

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Personally I don't mind testing before I go to someone else's house, if they want me to, doesn't bother me at all as I've still got 2 boxes of those NHS kits in my house so they are just sitting gathering dust otherwise. I was testing myself a few times a week when they first became available but then I was off work for a bit, didn't see the need, so fell out of the routine.
 

kez19

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Sturgeon wants people testing much more before doing any mixing/socialising:




For a long time I've held the view that the millions of tests a week we're doing is a waste of money that should be going towards improving healthcare services more widely, including covid. The only justification for testing I'd say is for those with symptoms who can then identify appropriate treatments.

So do we expect those in power to do the same or is it the usual us to do it, rules don’t apply to them?

I wonder how much damage we are doing with all these test kits? (far from being an environmentalist here but it’s the same when you see disposable masks/fashion masks on the street)
 
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MikeWM

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Sturgeon wants people testing much more before doing any mixing/socialising:

I'm increasingly thinking that 'vaccine passports' seem likely to morph into 'testing passports' over time. It isn't much of a social credit system if you've only got to do one thing every 6 months or so in order to 'pass'. Having to pass tests multiple times a week is far more in the spirit of having to show your continuing compliance to state diktat.
 
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