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Museum Of British Transport

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03_179

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Here we go again ... 03_179 is asking a stoopid question on ancient history :lol:

Back in the 1960s there was the Museum of British Transport that was based in Clapham High Road in South London.
I'm interested in what was actually based there.

So far I have located:
CER 2-4-0 number 490
LNER A4 4-6-2 No 4468 Mallard
LSWR T3 class 4-4-0 No. 563
LBSCR A1-A1x class 0-6-0T
T3 class 4-4-0 No. 563
Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway 0-4-0ST locomotive WREN
Ex GWR 28OO Class 2-8-0 No 2818
Class D 4-4-0 locomotive 563
BR 9F 2-10-0 No 92220 Evening Star
SECR Class D 4-4-0 locomotive 737
Great Central Railway Director 4-4-0 locomotive No 506 "Butler Henderson"
Furness Locomotive No.3

Buses type things
London General Omnibus Company B type bus, B340 of 1911
London General Omnibus company B type motor bus B340 of 1911
London General Ominbus Company LT type six-wheel double deck bus LT165 of 1931
Greenline T type long distance single decker T219 of 1931
London General Omnibus Company introduced the ST type double deckers in 1929
Trolleybuses in London were the A class, referred to as ‘Diddlers’ by the staff.

Anyone able to supply more locos, carriages, buses, etc.?
 
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P Binnersley

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GWR "Quick Lunch Bar" buffet 9631 was at Clapham. It ran on the Severn Valley Railway for several years where it was known the the "Clapham Buffet". The bar was the full length of the coach. I think it is now at STEAM in Swindon.
 

Clarence Yard

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2818 wasn’t at Clapham - after restoration at Eastleigh it was kept at Bristol for years. 92220 wasn’t there either - before it went to York it was kept at Preston Park.

GWR buffet 9631 was kept outside and by the time it went to the SVR it wasn’t exactly looking it’s best!
 

John Webb

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I have a booklet "Transport Preserved" by Bryan Morgan, published 1963 by the British Railway Board and sold for 2/6 (two shillings and six pence!). This does not have a proper list of what was in the Museum, alas, but mentions "Cornwall", "Hardwicke", the MR 4-4-0 Compound 1000, 2-4-0 GER 90 and the Aveling & Porter engine from the Oxfordshire Tramway and which aren't on your original list.
Carriages included a Grand Junction Railway TPO, Midland and Glasgow & SW Joint Stock dining carriage and various royal saloons.
Buses mentioned include a London General Omnibus Co Type 'K'.
 

Big Jumby 74

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GWR buffet 9631 was kept outside
Yes, on a short section of track by the gates in the yard as I recall, as was a small 4 wheel tank wagon, with the number 512 painted on it. Also at one end of the coach was a pair of huge wheels, the top being almost level with the top of the coach gangway. Think they may have been part of a colliery winding gear though, not railway related.
 

camerar1

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2818 wasn’t at Clapham - after restoration at Eastleigh it was kept at Bristol for years. 92220 wasn’t there either - before it went to York it was kept at Preston Park.

GWR buffet 9631 was kept outside and by the time it went to the SVR it wasn’t exactly looking it’s best!
92220 went to the K&WVR for a while up to 1975
 

Clarence Yard

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The coaches at Clapham also included a Pullman and, of course, the LNER Dynamometer car behind Mallard.

P.s. quite forgot about 92220 going to the KVWR before it went to York. They put it back in steam too.
 

Strathclyder

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Flickr member David Christie has a collection of photos from the museum, the following link should take you straight to them:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=55919985@N06&view_all=1&text=clapham museum

Hope that helps!
Rather surprising on the surface to see Glasgow Cunarder No.1392 among that lot! Not really a surprise when you consider that it was the last full-size* 1st-gen double-decker tram to be built in the UK. Am glad it had returned to Glasgow - arguably where it belongs in spite of it's national significance no doubt influencing the decision to initially house it in Clapham; is/was 1392 part of the National Collection as @EbbwJunction1 notes below? - by the time David next saw it in April 1973 where it has remained in spite of Glasgow's transport museum moving locations twice since it's return (Pollokshaws to Kelvin Hall to Riverside).

*: Seaton, I'm looking at you here. ;)


 
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EbbwJunction1

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The museum closed and was partly replaced by the National Railway Museum in York, which hosts most of the railway items, although some are elsewhere). The buses also went somewhere else, some (I think) to the London Transport Museum in Convent Garden, London, and some to other locations. As far as I am aware, nothing was scrapped, as they were all part of the national Collection, i.e. locos and coaches identified as being important.
 

Western Lord

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What happened to this museum? Are the vehicles still preserved elsewhere?
The museum was housed in a former bus garage (actually a tram depot converted to motor bus operation in 1950). The garage was heavily rebuilt and extended for post war motor bus operation but was closed in 1958. The British Transport Museum operated from 1961 to 1973. The building was used as a bus garage again from 1981 to 1987 before being sold for redevelopment.
 

03_179

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2818 wasn’t at Clapham - after restoration at Eastleigh it was kept at Bristol for years. 92220 wasn’t there either - before it went to York it was kept at Preston Park.

GWR buffet 9631 was kept outside and by the time it went to the SVR it wasn’t exactly looking it’s best!
Thanks. I found a photo of 2818 and was labelled Clapham. But I guess it was wrong.

Flickr member David Christie has a collection of photos from the museum, the following link should take you straight to them:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=55919985@N06&view_all=1&text=clapham museum

Hope that helps!
Brilliant Resource
I have a booklet "Transport Preserved" by Bryan Morgan, published 1963 by the British Railway Board and sold for 2/6 (two shillings and six pence!). This does not have a proper list of what was in the Museum, alas, but mentions "Cornwall", "Hardwicke", the MR 4-4-0 Compound 1000, 2-4-0 GER 90 and the Aveling & Porter engine from the Oxfordshire Tramway and which aren't on your original list.
Carriages included a Grand Junction Railway TPO, Midland and Glasgow & SW Joint Stock dining carriage and various royal saloons.
Buses mentioned include a London General Omnibus Co Type 'K'.
Thank you very much.
Rather surprising on the surface to see Glasgow Cunarder No.1392 among that lot! Not really a surprise when you consider that it was the last full-size* 1st-gen double-decker tram to be built in the UK. Am glad it had returned to Glasgow - arguably where it belongs in spite of it's national significance no doubt influencing the decision to initially house it in Clapham; is/was 1392 part of the National Collection as @EbbwJunction1 notes below? - by the time David next saw it in April 1973 where it has remained in spite of Glasgow's transport museum moving locations twice since it's return (Pollokshaws to Kelvin Hall to Riverside).

*: Seaton, I'm looking at you here. ;)


Great links thanks
The museum closed and was partly replaced by the National Railway Museum in York, which hosts most of the railway items, although some are elsewhere). The buses also went somewhere else, some (I think) to the London Transport Museum in Convent Garden, London, and some to other locations. As far as I am aware, nothing was scrapped, as they were all part of the national Collection, i.e. locos and coaches identified as being important.

It was sold off and is now a rather ugly looking Sainsburys.
Next time I am in the area (rare as my Mum died back in 2018 I'll grab a photo of it.
 

Ken H

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Were the old Clapham and York museums part of the science museun. The NRM was when it opened. Not sure about now.
I went to the york one as a kid. The tickets were edmondson type so i think part of BR maybe.
But i dont really know.
 

WesternLancer

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Were the old Clapham and York museums part of the science museun. The NRM was when it opened. Not sure about now.
I went to the york one as a kid. The tickets were edmondson type so i think part of BR maybe.
But i dont really know.
Wasn't Clapman run by the BTC (as opposed to the Science Museum)?
 

Clarence Yard

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The Science Museum came into the picture as a result of the 1968 Transport Act. This mandated BR to find premises for a new Railway Museum, which was to be run by the Science Museum.

Prior to that Clapham and York were BTC (later BR) run museums. In the mid 1960’s it was felt that BR shouldn’t be in the business of running museums and there was quite a campaign for a new railway museum that could accommodate all the rail exhibits that were at Clapham and York, as well as those dotted around in store. That campaign resulted in the “new” museum at York.
 

Ken H

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The Science Museum came into the picture as a result of the 1968 Transport Act. This mandated BR to find premises for a new Railway Museum, which was to be run by the Science Museum.

Prior to that Clapham and York were BTC (later BR) run museums. In the mid 1960’s it was felt that BR shouldn’t be in the business of running museums and there was quite a campaign for a new railway museum that could accommodate all the rail exhibits that were at Clapham and York, as well as those dotted around in store. That campaign resulted in the “new” museum at York.
Thanks for the history.
 

341o2

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Trolleybuses in London were the A class, referred to as ‘Diddlers’ by the staff.

Anyone able to supply more locos, carriages, buses, etc.?
The London trolleybus classes ran from A to Q with a number of individual experimental vehicles.
The A class were the original vehicles ordered in 1931 by London United Tramways, being absorbed into the LTPB in 1933 and were generally known as Diddlers, not just to the staff. It was No1 which was preserved and made an outing in 1962 to take part in the last day of London trolleybuses.

Another trolleybus at Clapham was ipswich 44
 

Big Jumby 74

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The London trolleybus classes ran from A to Q
My mum used the 657 out of Isleworth depot years back, often a Q1 I believe, and my Great Grandad, minding his own business, cycling to work one day along Fulham Palace Road, was knocked sideways by a Trolley. I remember he always had a pronounced limp as a result when I knew him. Can't say for sure but that may have been a 628 working from Hammersmith?
Strange in a way, but still able to get out and about on two wheels myself, I find myself being ultra cautious these days because of these electric cars. Same as the Trolley's, just can't hear them coming!
 

Taunton

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I youthfully dragged my long-suffering mother to Clapham museum some time in the 1960s, on a visit to London; I had doubtless read about it in a rail magazine. Apart from getting off the Northern Line at the wrong Clapham station and having to trudge along the main road, it was I think the first place I had ever seen, at the bookstall, so many fascinating transport books all together, one or two of which I probably still have.

The museum was BTC, when they ran London Transport as well, so the building and much of the contents came to them that way. Am I mistaken that the York museum, the original BTC one on the other side of the station to the current one, was actually an LNER initiative originally?

Well done mum!
 

Taunton

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So I guess BR inherited the York museum, hence City of Truro ended up in there in the 1950s. If I remember correctly, because I visited that one as well, it remained rail connected, having previously been a goods shed, so locos could be moved in and out.
 

John Webb

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I youthfully dragged my long-suffering mother to Clapham museum some time in the 1960s, on a visit to London; I had doubtless read about it in a rail magazine. Apart from getting off the Northern Line at the wrong Clapham station and having to trudge along the main road, it was I think the first place I had ever seen, at the bookstall, so many fascinating transport books all together, one or two of which I probably still have.

The museum was BTC, when they ran London Transport as well, so the building and much of the contents came to them that way. Am I mistaken that the York museum, the original BTC one on the other side of the station to the current one, was actually an LNER initiative originally?

Well done mum!
Despite living in SE London, I never got to the Clapham museum. It opened about the time I was doing 'O' and 'A' levels and sorting out going to do a degree, which was rather distracting!
As 30907 says, the old York Museum was an LNER initiative. I was fortunate to pick up a second-hand copy of a Catalogue of the old museum, published in 1956. This, unlike the Clapham booklet mentioned in my post above, does list all the items they had. It was founded in 1922 but opened in 1928, according to "Rail Centres: York" by Ken Hoole (Ian Allan, 1983) and by 1956 was in two sections - the small exhibits were in a building on/at the site of the original terminal station close to the Railway War Memorial and the larger ones in the 'Queen Street' section - this wasn't a former goods shed but two fitting/machine shops originally part of the Yorkshire and North Midland Railway works.
 

Merthyr Imp

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So I guess BR inherited the York museum, hence City of Truro ended up in there in the 1950s. If I remember correctly, because I visited that one as well, it remained rail connected, having previously been a goods shed, so locos could be moved in and out.

After withdrawal from service in 1931 City of Truro was donated by the GWR to be exhibited at the old York Railway Museum (which I believe opened in 1927) because they didn't want to preserve it themselves. It was returned to service in 1957 and in 1962 then went on display at the newly-opened GWR Railway Museum in Swindon where it stayed until 1984.

(Thanks to Wikipedia)
 

John Webb

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If it was founded in 1922 it must have actually been a North Eastern Railway initiative.
It was indeed; Sir Ralph Wedgwood, General Manager of the NER, was organising various events for the 1925 celebrations of the centenary of the Stockton & Darlington line and a committee was set up in 1922 to look at a permanent museum in York. But the NER was aware by then of the forthcoming 'Grouping' and the museum opened under the 'new' LNER. (The date of opening to the public is uncertain; the first 'Visitors Book' held in the NRM archives shows entries from early 1928 onwards.)
 

Big Jumby 74

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Yes, on a short section of track by the gates in the yard as I recall,
As per previous comments. A degree of heath Robinson redaction required for privacy reasons!
 

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