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Networkers stored at Beckenham Junction

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Peter Mugridge

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It’s interesting that they are all Met Cam units - are these less reliable compared to the BREL units?


Are they being displaced by the 707s or just not required anymore?
No idea about reliability, but some of those going to store are BREL examples. As for the 707s... if that's the case, then they'll need quite a few more over quickly, but the 701s aren't in service yet to replace those at SWR. I suspect they're probably just going to run a tighter fleet for the short term.

According to the se-gen postings, the ones going to store at Worksop are apparently:

465 004
465 010
465 019

465 236
465 245
465 246

466 004
466 024
466 033
 
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365 Networker

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No idea about reliability, but some of those going to store are BREL examples. As for the 707s... if that's the case, then they'll need quite a feww more over quickly, but the 701s aren't in service yet to replace those at SWR. I suspect they're probably just going to run a tighter fleet for the short term.

According to the se-gen postings, the ones going to store at Worksop are apparently:

465 004
465 010
465 019

465 236
465 245
465 246

466 004
466 024
466 033
Thanks for the info.
 

Tynwald

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The Washwood Heath built units still have there original GTO traction kits, which is becoming pretty obselete. I'm sure the BREL units were retractioned by Hitache I think.
 

365 Networker

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The Washwood Heath built units still have there original GTO traction kits, which is becoming pretty obselete. I'm sure the BREL units were retractioned by Hitache I think.
Yes, although they retain the original Brush traction motors. Perhaps they will consider testing a GTO replacement on one of the units to be stored. I know Alstom provide this service as they replaced the GTOs in the 323s a few years ago.
 

BlythPower

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No idea about reliability, but some of those going to store are BREL examples. As for the 707s... if that's the case, then they'll need quite a feww more over quickly, but the 701s aren't in service yet to replace those at SWR. I suspect they're probably just going to run a tighter fleet for the short term.

According to the se-gen postings, the ones going to store at Worksop are apparently:

465 004
465 010
465 019

465 236
465 245
465 246

466 004
466 024
466 033

Bloomin' typical - I still need two of them. :'(
 

DanNCL

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According to the se-gen postings, the ones going to store at Worksop are apparently:

465 004
465 010
465 019

465 236
465 245
465 246

466 004
466 024
466 033
I‘m surprised there’s any 465/0s on this list, as the 465/0s are owned by a different leasing company from the rest of the listed units, and it was expected that it would only be 465/2s, 465/9s and 466s going at this point.

Is it possible that 465904, 910 and 919 were supposed to have been listed instead of the /0s?
 

D365

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The Washwood Heath built units still have there original GTO traction kits, which is becoming pretty obselete. I'm sure the BREL units were retractioned by Hitache I think.
Might have formed part of the reason for removing the 365s from Great Northern. A BREL/ABB train but with GEC traction motors and the obsolete GTO inverters.
 

D7666

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To be fair, it was old underframes/bogies that were rebuilt with new bodies and electrical equipment!

Both are correct.

There were both new bodies on old frames for some Subs, or others with old bodies on new frames.

The original LSWR 3car "motor units" (that were not called Sub at the time) E1-E84 (later SR 1201-1284) [includes the example at NRM] were of the old steam hauled stock just converted when first introduced by LSWR as EMU, then later rebuilt on new or rebuilt frames in SR days.

The car from E93 in NRM collection is not one of these; this batch were new build.

See
 
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Tynwald

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175
Yes, although they retain the original Brush traction motors. Perhaps they will consider testing a GTO replacement on one of the units to be stored. I know Alstom provide this service as they replaced the GTOs in the 323s a few years ago.
Yes they do provide IGBT inverter packages. But on a 30 year old train is it worth the cost.
 

brad465

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It has been posted on se-gen tonight that these three units ( 465 247, 465 913 and 466 006 ) are being hauled away for scrap during the next few days.

A further nine are going to Worksop for warm storage.
If these units are going for scrap it could just be that they have identified the 'dregs' of the fleet that cost more to maintain than they are worth. The remainder could be in use for some time yet for all we know.

I'd imagine that for every pre-WW1 coach that made it into a SUB unit, another one went for scrap.
Is it possible that they weren't 'dregs' pre-covid, when SE needed every last unit to run its services, but now, like with GTR and the 365s, the value has dropped to the point they can afford to get rid of them as passenger demand has dropped enough?

SE certainly cannot replace all the Networkers anytime soon as there's nowhere near enough 707s for this and I don't recall a completely new fleet on order to replace them being public knowledge (or on order generally).
 

Grumbler

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Messages
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Both are correct.

There were both new bodies on old frames for some Subs, or others with old bodies on new frames.

The original LSWR 3car "motor units" (that were not called Sub at the time) E1-E84 (later SR 1201-1284) [includes the example at NRM] were of the old steam hauled stock just converted when first introduced by LSWR as EMU, then later rebuilt on new or rebuilt frames in SR days.

The car from E43 in NRM collection is one of these.

See
Wow! That is incredibly detailed!
 

BlythPower

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I need 1… planning a trip on Sunday night, what are the chances they will still be there?!

Fingers crossed! I imagine the ones for warm store have already been stood down, though... Can anyone confirm? Hopefully the Beckenham Three will still be there.
 

Mikey C

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The Washwood Heath built units still have there original GTO traction kits, which is becoming pretty obselete. I'm sure the BREL units were retractioned by Hitache I think.
Doesn't the Jubilee Line 1996 stock use similar traction, so it's quite a large pool of trains?
 

brad465

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Might have formed part of the reason for removing the 365s from Great Northern. A BREL/ABB train but with GEC traction motors and the obsolete GTO inverters.
All the talk of this forum suggests the 365s overall were looked after better than the 465s/466s, and that they would have a future were it not for covid and incomplete electrification, so I doubt their traction could be called obsolete.

If the Met cam traction is obsolete I don't know why they weren't replaced when the BREL ones were.
 

Class 466

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I‘m surprised there’s any 465/0s on this list, as the 465/0s are owned by a different leasing company from the rest of the listed units, and it was expected that it would only be 465/2s, 465/9s and 466s going at this point.

Is it possible that 465904, 910 and 919 were supposed to have been listed instead of the /0s?
It was always going to be based on unit reliablilty rather than any particular subclasses or anything.
 

D365

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All the talk of this forum suggests the 365s overall were looked after better than the 465s/466s, and that they would have a future were it not for covid and incomplete electrification, so I doubt their traction could be called obsolete.

If the Met cam traction is obsolete I don't know why they weren't replaced when the BREL ones were.
Yes but the vast majority of railway engineering activity never makes it to this forum. After all, I’m only speculating based on the fact that it’s been 10+ years since the BREL 465s were reengineered.
 

SolomonSouth

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Yes but the vast majority of railway engineering activity never makes it to this forum. After all, I’m only speculating based on the fact that it’s been 10+ years since the BREL 465s were reengineered.
Yeah they were re-engineered in 2009-2010
I have been told MetCams are still more reliable despite not having been re-engineered but not sure on this.
 

D365

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Yeah they were re-engineered in 2009-2010
I have been told MetCams are still more reliable despite not having been re-engineered but not sure on this.
Could well be, but the Hitachi traction electronics ought to be better when considered in isolation.
 

Class 466

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In terms of reliability perhaps. The Metro-Cammell ones are much quicker to accelerate though
Any evidence to back such a claim? The IGBT retraction of the 465/0/1s produces a more constant rate of acceleration at 0.98m/s in comparison to the GTO inverters on 465/2/9s & 466.
 

brad465

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Any evidence to back such a claim? The IGBT retraction of the 465/0/1s produces a more constant rate of acceleration at 0.98m/s in comparison to the GTO inverters on 465/2/9s & 466.
How reputable this is I won't judge, but there is another thread on this forum about fastest accelerating multiple units that talks about this:

 

Class 466

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The 10 car that is at New Beckenham siding will be going back to Slade Green on Tuesday, 466006 and one of the 465s are on the list of units to go Worksop.
 

brad465

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The 10 car that is at New Beckenham siding will be going back to Slade Green on Tuesday, 466006 and one of the 465s are on the list of units to go Worksop.
Oh right, is something still going to be scrapped imminently do you know and can be disclosed?
 
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