Night Tube

NeilWatson

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If I've read the timetables correctly, the first Night Tube train will depart Loughton at 00.03 on Saturday 20th August - can anyone confirm please.
 
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greatkingrat

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It depends how you define Night Tube. That might be the first train after midnight, but trains run later than midnight at the moment anyway.
 

NeilWatson

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It depends how you define Night Tube. That might be the first train after midnight, but trains run later than midnight at the moment anyway.

I want to identify the first 'additional' train provided by the Night Tube initiative, I believe the 00.03 ex Loughton is the first train shown in the Night Tube timetables.
 

Dstock7080

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Train 322
Epping 23 52½
Loughton 00 02¼
Ealing Ebdwy 01 05¾

is a later train than the usual Mon-Thur times.

Night Tube train numbers on the Central Line start at 301, which leave Hainualt depot at 06 36 Friday morning. T322 is also a Night Tube train, which starts from Loughton siding at 04 53 on a Friday morning.

Correspondingly, on the Victoria Line the first additional later trains are:
T203
Brixton 00 34 15
Walthamstow 01 04 30.
T206
Walthamstow 00 20 00
Brixton 00 51 15.
 

johntea

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Don't suppose it matters too much these days with Oyster cards and the like but I wonder how many people are going to be walking out of the clubs and trying to use their Day Travelcards after 4:30am :lol:

It is nice to see it finally happening though, opens up a lot of options in terms of cheaper hotels and the like whilst visiting London in the more outskirt areas for a start!
 
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i3lu

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I'm thinking that the DVAs will be different for Night Tube. For example will announce just interchanges with the anothers night lines.
 

HMS Ark Royal

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According to the Standard, there is a guy spending 24 hours on the tube to celebrate today's occasion.

Wish I had joined him, really
 

Lrd

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I'm thinking that the DVAs will be different for Night Tube. For example will announce just interchanges with the anothers night lines.
They will be different in the fact that the driver will be turning them off and doing manual announcements, or at least cancelling the message at certain stations. The Central line announcements won't be updated until 2020...
 

Domh245

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Given the likely clientele of Night Tube, surely the existing announcements wouldn't be suitable. It'd probably be better for the driver to shout the name of the station *very* slowly down the PA
 

Lrd

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Given the likely clientele of Night Tube, surely the existing announcements wouldn't be suitable. It'd probably be better for the driver to shout the name of the station *very* slowly down the PA
We've been told it's going to be mainly nurses and night workers who mainly use Night Tube :roll:
 

plymothian

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Used the Night Tube from Warren Street - Stratford on Saturday night (leaving just after 01.00).
Both Victoria and Central lines were well loaded; plenty of evidence of 'unidentified liquid substances' in the stations.
The DVAs are still in day mode with the driver attempting to cancel them at the right moment - or not at all for the between station announcements.
 

Phil.

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I've missed something here. The last time I looked at anything to do with a night tube service the drivers were on strike about it. What happened?
 

Mojo

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I've missed something here. The last time I looked at anything to do with a night tube service the drivers were on strike about it. What happened?

It wasn't just the drivers, it was pretty much every operational grade on the network and was connected with the renewal of the pay deal which LUL wanted to combine with a deal on all-night running. The pay deal was subsequently settled and LUL agreed to employ part-time Train Operators that would just work Friday & Saturday nights (running Night Tube trains as well as the existing trains that would be crewed by current drivers that work nights), as well as additional posts in roles such as duty managers, service control, and more station staff, to provide more assistance overnight as well as cover meal reliefs.
 

plcd1

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How on earth did you manage to infer that?

Hardly an inference. Watching the media coverage, what the Mayor has said and TfL's barrage on social media in the run up to the launch it's clear a "media line" had been set by City Hall / TfL's media relations people as to how to "present" the new service and who it benefits. The stress has very much been on "low paid or essential workers" gaining from faster journeys to / from work plus an upside for people working in or enjoying London's "culture". The last thing they want it portrayed as is a tube service for "p*ssed up" youngsters who now don't have to fork out for a cab or minicab. What's demonstrably clear, though, is that at least initially it is precisely those who are "p*ssed up" who are using it the most. That's no shock given who makes the majority of people out late in the night. There are other people, sure, who've used it and may well find it advantageous.

Avoiding the "p*ss head" portrayal is also about conveying the idea that the service is safe to use and you're not going to have people puking on you, shouting and getting into fights every 5 minutes. So far, so good but we all know the media are just waiting for the first injury / robbery / attack / incident to pile in with adverse comments because that's how they work.

However I don't think we should run away with the idea that people in low paid jobs who work extreme unsocial hours are going to gain very much from a tube service running two nights a week and which won't serve certain London boroughs where poorer people have to live (Barking and Dagenham, parts of Havering, poorer bits of Enfield, Uxbridge and Feltham, parts of South London).

If TfL were *really* concerned with providing fast journeys for essential / low paid workers they'd restructure elements of the Night Bus network to give express night buses to get people into / out of town quickly but TfL don't believe in such things.

I confess I am sceptical about the whole idea of the night tube despite being a potential beneficiary of the service. I just think it's an awful lot of expense, that will increase as services expand, to provide a service for a minority of people. The money could really be spent on other far more worthwhile schemes that would benefit vastly more people. If TfL and the Mayor were awash with cash, rather than facing a fall in income and grants, and had "fixed" the most pressing transport problems then yes you could indulge in "icing on the cake" services like a Night Tube at weekends. If London had the infrastructure and maintenance flexibility to run a nightly tube service, like NYC can, then I think the "game changer" tag and the effect on workers would be much more justified and relevant. However we don't have the infrastructure that is needed so it's always going to be a leisure orientated service rather than something genuinely essential.
 

Be3G

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However I don't think we should run away with the idea that people in low paid jobs who work extreme unsocial hours are going to gain very much from a tube service running two nights a week and which won't serve certain London boroughs where poorer people have to live (Barking and Dagenham, parts of Havering, poorer bits of Enfield, Uxbridge and Feltham, parts of South London).

If TfL were *really* concerned with providing fast journeys for essential / low paid workers they'd restructure elements of the Night Bus network to give express night buses to get people into / out of town quickly but TfL don't believe in such things.

Couldn't agree more. I actually think that the best thing to come out of the Night Tube ‘project’ is the extra weekend-night buses we now have, which create lots of extra useful nighttime links. I think TfL have said they're open to the idea of making some of these full 24h services too if they prove popular enough, and that's what I'm keeping my fingers crossed will happen.
 

RJ

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I'm still wondering when the first Night Tube Rail Replacement Buses will operate.

It was meant to be the Piccadilly Line back in March, which would have been interesting. Assuming the Jubilee Line is up and running by the end of the year, there's a closure planned in January which will require replacement buses.
 

Busaholic

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However I don't think we should run away with the idea that people in low paid jobs who work extreme unsocial hours are going to gain very much from a tube service running two nights a week and which won't serve certain London boroughs where poorer people have to live (Barking and Dagenham, parts of Havering, poorer bits of Enfield, Uxbridge and Feltham, parts of South London).

If TfL were *really* concerned with providing fast journeys for essential / low paid workers they'd restructure elements of the Night Bus network to give express night buses to get people into / out of town quickly but TfL don't believe in such things.

.

I agree with much in your post. Just like to add 'most of South London' to your list of boroughs, to include the outer boroughs too.

The idea of express night buses sounds nice, but I fear it would not be practicable, partly because of the confusion they might cause but more that I doubt that in these days of increasing traffic congestion, extending into the night period, that significant decreases in journey time could be achieved. Having said that, I think a case could be made for making that rare express rush hour route X68 to Upper Norwood and Croydon a night route too, with a few minor tweaks, also to reinstate what used to be an express route from Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill, non-stop. A possible case too for what were tried as express routes in the 1980s along the 53 and 177 to Blackheath, Greenwich, Charlton, Woolwich and Thamesmead. Traffic congestion put paid to them as peak hour express routes, but MAYBE they could be tried as night services.
 

transmanche

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also to reinstate what used to be an express route from Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill, non-stop.
I don't believe the express service ever ran non-stop from Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill. There would be little point doing so today, as a large number (if not the majority) of passengers alight at Crouch End Broadway.

In its final incarnation, the express service didn't even serve Muswell Hill; but operated as W2 from Turnpike Lane- running express from Alexandra Park stopping at Crouch End, Crouch Hill and Stroud Green.
 

Busaholic

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I don't believe the express service ever ran non-stop from Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill. There would be little point doing so today, as a large number (if not the majority) of passengers alight at Crouch End Broadway.

In its final incarnation, the express service didn't even serve Muswell Hill; but operated as W2 from Turnpike Lane- running express from Alexandra Park stopping at Crouch End, Crouch Hill and Stroud Green.

I never had direct experience of the 212 express, though I went on all the W routes on the day they were introduced in 1968. You could be right about there never being a non-stop express. It was maybe an assumption of mine, and Ian Armstrong's excellent website offers no enlightenment on the subject.

Does Crouch End not have another night bus service to Finsbury Park too?
 

transmanche

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Does Crouch End not have another night bus service to Finsbury Park too?
No. It has the N41 (to Trafalgar Square via Archway & Angel) and the N91 (to Trafalgar Square via Hornsey Road & Caledonian Road).

The W3 is also running on Fri/Sat nights now, but only every 30 mins. (The W7 night service is every 20 mins.)
 

ashworth

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I confess I am sceptical about the whole idea of the night tube despite being a potential beneficiary of the service. I just think it's an awful lot of expense, that will increase as services expand, to provide a service for a minority of people. The money could really be spent on other far more worthwhile schemes that would benefit vastly more people. If TfL and the Mayor were awash with cash, rather than facing a fall in income and grants, and had "fixed" the most pressing transport problems then yes you could indulge in "icing on the cake" services like a Night Tube at weekends. If London had the infrastructure and maintenance flexibility to run a nightly tube service, like NYC can, then I think the "game changer" tag and the effect on workers would be much more justified and relevant. However we don't have the infrastructure that is needed so it's always going to be a leisure orientated service rather than something genuinely essential.

I know that London is probably different from the rest of the UK. It is one of the major capital cities in the world and is becoming very much a 24 hour city.
However, for those of us living in other parts of the UK, outside of the major cities, even night buses seem a luxury, although from having used them in London I do know that they are essential services for many workers.

If the night tube services do prove to be predominantly used for non essential leisure travel especially by late night party goers, those of us outside London will feel even more let down as we see our bus services cut yet again. The other week I was staying with friends near Hampstead and on one hot night, when I couldn't sleep, I was watching the N5 bus go by every 10-15 minutes, often with only a handful of passengers on each bus.

Yet here in Nottinghamshire, as in many of the more rural shire counties, we lost our Sunday bus services years ago and are now currently seeing our bus services after 6pm each evening being cut. Unless you live on one of the major routes radiating in and out of the city there are no Sunday or evening services.
Even with the great changes regarding Sunday trading and the shops of our cities being at their busiest on Sunday afternoons, especially during the run up to Christmas, these Sunday services cut nearly 20 years ago have never been restored. I don't suppose that we will ever now see our evening services restored. These are essential services that are needed by workers to get home from work at the end of the day or to work in the shops on Sunday's.

Great that all this money can be spent in London where I agree it's a completely different situation. A 24 hour city with a huge population, but it does seem very unfair, if night tube services are being provided for young party goers, when those living elsewhere in the UK are seeing their essential bus services cut even further.
 
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jon0844

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Reading my latest service bulletin from Intalink (Herts County Council) there are many more changes in bus services this September, but the biggest cuts seem likely next March.

Of course there are lots of factors, but one big thing in London is the ability to just step on a bus and tap in with Oyster or a card. Out here, you need cash and bus drivers don't like giving changing (even when they can give change vouchers) plus people don't even know how much the bus is going to cost before boarding, so likely won't even stop a bus to find out.
 

announcements

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Train 322
Epping 23 52½
Loughton 00 02¼
Ealing Ebdwy 01 05¾

is a later train than the usual Mon-Thur times.

Night Tube train numbers on the Central Line start at 301, which leave Hainualt depot at 06 36 Friday morning. T322 is also a Night Tube train, which starts from Loughton siding at 04 53 on a Friday morning.

Correspondingly, on the Victoria Line the first additional later trains are:
T203
Brixton 00 34 15
Walthamstow 01 04 30.
T206
Walthamstow 00 20 00
Brixton 00 51 15.

While I am with you that the first Victoria line Night Tube departure was the 0020 from Walthamstow, this article seemed to think it was 0010... This led me to do some Googling and with some luck, Diamond Geezer's article perhaps best explains it?
 

plcd1

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I know that London is probably different from the rest of the UK. It is one of the major capital cities in the world and is becoming very much a 24 hour city.
However, for those of us living in other parts of the UK, outside of the major cities, even night buses seem a luxury, although from having used them in London I do know that they are essential services for many workers.

If the night tube services do prove to be predominantly used for non essential leisure travel especially by late night party goers, those of us outside London will feel even more let down as we see our bus services cut yet again. The other week I was staying with friends near Hampstead and on one hot night, when I couldn't sleep, I was watching the N5 bus go by every 10-15 minutes, often with only a handful of passengers on each bus.

Yet here in Nottinghamshire, as in many of the more rural shire counties, we lost our Sunday bus services years ago and are now currently seeing our bus services after 6pm each evening being cut. Unless you live on one of the major routes radiating in and out of the city there are no Sunday or evening services.
Even with the great changes regarding Sunday trading and the shops of our cities being at their busiest on Sunday afternoons, especially during the run up to Christmas, these Sunday services cut nearly 20 years ago have never been restored. I don't suppose that we will ever now see our evening services restored. These are essential services that are needed by workers to get home from work at the end of the day or to work in the shops on Sunday's.

Great that all this money can be spent in London where I agree it's a completely different situation. A 24 hour city with a huge population, but it does seem very unfair, if night tube services are being provided for young party goers, when those living elsewhere in the UK are seeing their essential bus services cut even further.

Yes there are factors that make London "different" and which create a massive market for public transport. However I do understand and sympathise with people elsewhere who want to use public transport who have had / are having their choices removed from them. It's wrong and it's self defeating but the politicians don't give a **** which is why we will see our bus network destroyed to the point where it is impossible to restore it (if anyone ever suggests doing so). Once people lose the habit of using buses and the next generations don't even know what a bus is then we're locked into car transport with all its downsides forever. And that's before we wander into a future of automated, driverless, whatever vehicles controlled by Google. Yuk! I've lost count of the number of potential visits to places I've had to scrap because it's simply impossible to get there by train and bus.

In terms of your N5 observations all I'd say is that the absence of students during the Summer holidays will depress Night Bus numbers. This always a dip in patronage around this time of year for obvious reasons. It'll be back to "hell on earth" in a fortnight or so. ;)
 

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