Night Tube

Lrd

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There is going to be the one of, if not the first, suspension of the night tube for engineering work at Easter.

Services on the entire Victoria Line will be suspended from 03:10 on Sunday 16th April, as well as all day on Easter Monday 17th April.
There was a Northern Line closure a few weekends ago and I'm fairly sure the Jubbly has been shut as well.
 
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Dstock7080

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Indeed, Jubilee Line 20-22 January; 27-29 January:
No service between Wembley Park and Waterloo on Saturday and Sunday and between Stanmore and Waterloo
from 00.15 (southbound), 01.00 (northbound) until 05.30 Friday night/Saturday morning
Northern Line 18-19 March:
No service between Archway and High Barnet/Mill Hill East after 02.00 on Saturday night and all day Sunday.
 
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RJ

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Yes...and very little in the way of rail replacement buses so far. It'll be interesting to see what happens in September when the Central Line is shut between Loughton and Bethnal Green, also leaving the loop without a service.
 
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Lrd

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Yes...and very little in the way of rail replacement buses so far. It'll be interesting to see what happens in September when the Central Line is shut between Loughton and Bethnal Green, also leaving the loop without a service.
I like how you find out about any engineering work before the staff on the line do...
 

bluegoblin7

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I like how you find out about any engineering work before the staff on the line do...

I mean it's all extremely easy to come by in both the public 6-month track closure look-ahead and on various pages of the Intranet...

General TfL policy is not to run RRBs where suitable alternatives exist. RRBs have run for one of the Night Tube closures (I forget which), and I would expect a large swathe of RRB routes to be running for the Central line weekend closure, both through the day and overnight (remembering, of course, that Night Tube does not go beyond Loughton or Hainault via Newbury Park).
 

Jordeh

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Any updates on the night tube? Any passenger statistics for example? Also, is the ELL still going to go 24hr on weekends by the end of 2017 still?
Haven't seen any yet but this has recently come out and it's looking very positive (combined with the LO announcement).

City Metric said:
The London Assembly’s Transport Committee chair – Liberal Democrat Caroline Pidgeon – said that TfL had expected the night tube to run at a loss for the first three years of its service, racking up a total bill of £24.6m. This no longer looks likely, and TfL operation heads say they’ll break even much earlier.

But it’s more than just the popularity of the service itself that’s important.

Worldpay is the biggest payments processor in the UK – as in, they sell a whole load of card machines (mobile and wired) and also handle online payments – and has been doing pretty well recently, despite possible concerns about the impact of Brexit. The firm took a look at card transaction data for the late-night period, the hours between 1am and 4:30am, in the London area.

Its analysis showed that takings rose 75 per cent from before the launch of the night tube to June of this year. Almost a third of that late-night spending came in the borough of Westminster – the city’s nightlife hub and where the night tube services on the Jubilee, Central, Victoria, Piccadilly, and Northern lines intersect – but that increases in spending also occurred in more far-flung districts areas
http://www.citymetric.com/transport...al-life-magic-money-tree-look-night-tube-3153 (Only a short extract, there is more to the article which is well worth a read)

It really is quite amusing to look back in this thread at the anecdotal evidence rubbishing the system and claiming it's quiet. Turns out it's beating expectations and providing a measurable boost to the economy.

Time for some hat eating for those who never thought or wanted it to succeed?
 
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Busaholic

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Haven't seen any yet but this has recently come out and it's looking very positive (combined with the LO announcement).

http://www.citymetric.com/transport...al-life-magic-money-tree-look-night-tube-3153 (Only a short extract, there is more to the article which is well worth a read)

It really is quite amusing to look back in this thread at the anecdotal evidence rubbishing the system and claiming it's quiet. Turns out it's beating expectations and providing a measurable boost to the economy.

Time for some hat eating for those who never thought or wanted it to succeed?

There's some evidence that night bus use at the weekend has declined, even though journeys on those can be so much cheaper. The lower-paid workers probably would be more inclined to stick to the buses, but those out having a good time would go for the convenience and quickness of the tube.
 

RJ

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I like how you find out about any engineering work before the staff on the line do...

I hope so, need to know!

I mean it's all extremely easy to come by in both the public 6-month track closure look-ahead and on various pages of the Intranet...

General TfL policy is not to run RRBs where suitable alternatives exist. RRBs have run for one of the Night Tube closures (I forget which), and I would expect a large swathe of RRB routes to be running for the Central line weekend closure, both through the day and overnight (remembering, of course, that Night Tube does not go beyond Loughton or Hainault via Newbury Park).

There's now some publicity on the 2/3 Sep Central Line closure. Not like the last closure in 2013 where there were six bus services! As much of the area is isolated from the night bus network, I'd speculate that Service B is most likely to run overnight with the N8 deputising for the Hainault service. It doesn't quite reach Newbury Park or Leyton, but they're both served by other night buses.

Don't think there has been a proper replacement service for any of the (rare) night closures - the Vic at Easter didn't have any and the Northern Line south of Tooting Broadway had copious support with the N155. Think the closest was the Jubilee Line in January, which had a few extra journeys from Baker Street to Wembley Park until 0230 on the Saturday night. Of very limited use, being quite some way from the central area so probably carried fresh air!
 
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bramling

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Haven't seen any yet but this has recently come out and it's looking very positive (combined with the LO announcement).

http://www.citymetric.com/transport...al-life-magic-money-tree-look-night-tube-3153 (Only a short extract, there is more to the article which is well worth a read)

It really is quite amusing to look back in this thread at the anecdotal evidence rubbishing the system and claiming it's quiet. Turns out it's beating expectations and providing a measurable boost to the economy.

Time for some hat eating for those who never thought or wanted it to succeed?

Not at all, one can still look at Trackernet and see loadings, especially for the Victoria Line which expresses Train loadings as a percentage. Very rarely above about 15%, typically between 3 and 7%.

On the occasions I've used it on the Northern Line I've almost always had the carriage to myself for the entire journey. Speaking to Night Tube drivers they say loadings are low, especially later in the night.

Someone must be using it though, judging by the amount of soiled trains. If only the day passengers knew what they are sitting on. :(

Meanwhile we've already had scenarios where something has failed at some point and Saturday and Sunday daytime passengers, by far the majority compared to the minuscule Night Tube numbers, have suffered because there hasn't been a maintenance opportunity overnight. I suspect most people fail to realise just how much work takes place during a typical engineering hours, both planned and reactive work.

A waste of time, money and resources.
 

bluegoblin7

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There's now some publicity on the 2/3 Sep Central Line closure. Not like the last closure in 2013 where there were six bus services! As much of the area is isolated from the night bus network, I'd speculate that Service B is most likely to run overnight with the N8 deputising for the Hainault service. It doesn't quite reach Newbury Park or Leyton, but they're both served by other night buses.

Pretty much reflecting all the info available internally at the moment:

Central Line
No service between Bethnal Green and Loughton and between Leytonstone and Woodford via Hainault from 02.50 on Friday night and all day on Saturday and Sunday. Reduced services throughout the rest of the line.
Three Rail Replacement Bus Services will operate as follows:-
Service A: Stratford City – Leyton – Leytonstone – Snaresbrook – Wanstead – Redbridge
Service B: Stratford City – Snaresbrook – South Woodford – Woodford – Roding Valley – Buckhurst Hill – Loughton
Service C: Ilford (for TfL Rail services) – Gants Hill – Newbury Park – Barkingside – Fullwell Cross – Fairlop – Hainault - Grange Hill – Chigwell – Roding Valley – Woodford

As yet, the timetable (which will give more details) has not been published.
 

Jordeh

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Not at all, one can still look at Trackernet and see loadings, especially for the Victoria Line which expresses Train loadings as a percentage. Very rarely above about 15%, typically between 3 and 7%.

On the occasions I've used it on the Northern Line I've almost always had the carriage to myself for the entire journey. Speaking to Night Tube drivers they say loadings are low, especially later in the night.

Someone must be using it though, judging by the amount of soiled trains. If only the day passengers knew what they are sitting on. :(

Meanwhile we've already had scenarios where something has failed at some point and Saturday and Sunday daytime passengers, by far the majority compared to the minuscule Night Tube numbers, have suffered because there hasn't been a maintenance opportunity overnight. I suspect most people fail to realise just how much work takes place during a typical engineering hours, both planned and reactive work.

A waste of time, money and resources.
I've already said the anecdotal evidence doesn't seem to be telling the actual picture.

TfL did not expect it to be an instant success overnight, hence why they have given it a few years to become profitable but as has already been stated, it is beating their expectations and well on the way to covering its costs. Likewise they will get better at handling the maintenance too.Then of course there is the measurable boost to the night time economy which is a very good thing. I really don't accept it is a waste of time, money and resources. TfL as a public transport operator should be doing all they can to boost the night time economy.

It baffles me some transport enthusiasts are so keen to see actual improvements to service fail. I wonder why that is? Because it doesn't benefit them personally? Or just some arbitrary close mindedness due to a resistance to change?
 
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bramling

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It baffles me some transport enthusiasts are so keen to see actual improvements to service fail. I wonder why that is? Because it doesn't benefit them personally? Or just some arbitrary close mindedness due to a resistance to change?

No, it's because I have some experience from the inside, and see the reality of running this play service for ****heads.

I've already said the anecdotal evidence doesn't seem to be telling the actual picture.

The evidence is clear - trains running with loadings as low as 0%.

Likewise, the actual picture is if one turns up for a train at somewhere like Edgware early on a Saturday or Sunday morning, the carriage is likely to smell of urine, or worse you may be unlucky and find yourself sitting on it.

Likewise they will get better at handling the maintenance too.

How do you propose they do this? By having more than 24 hours in a day?

If a piece of equipment develops a fault (for example a defect with a rail, a broken or defective component on a set of points, or a defect with signalling apparatus) it requires staff to go and fix, most probably involving equipment being brought to site, probably followed by a period of testing too. If something goes wrong in the traffic day, the problem will be fixed if the effect on the service is sufficiently serious, or most likely will be dealt with in engineering hours, with likely some kind of limit on the service in the interim, perhaps a platform or siding being out of commission. If something goes wrong from Friday morning onwards, there is now no non-disruptive maintenance opportunity until Sunday night, thus screwing the weekend day passengers. Unless of course we suspend the precious Night Tube, but that's not even always a viable option because the number of engineering staff have been slimmed down on Friday and Saturday nights because it is no longer viable paying people to sit around unable to do any productive work.

There have been plenty of instances where the railway has had to limp through Saturday and Sunday because something has gone wrong at some point. I can also think of instances where Monday morning has been messed up because work has been left until the Sunday night and something unexpected has cropped up leading to the work not being finished in time.

But as long as the ****heads get their ****head special train home on Friday and Saturday nights then all is well. :(

Scrap the whole thing, it's a waste of time and money. We managed perfectly well without it for the first 150+ years of the Underground's operation, and I don't remember seeing too many tears when it came in over a year late whilst all the ER issues were ironed out. The few days of strikes probably cost London's economy far more than the Night Tube will ever bring in.
 
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Busaholic

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TfL as a public transport operator should be doing all they can to boost the night time economy.

I don't believe it's TfL's role to boost the night time economy in any way, let alone 'all they can'. The Mayor may choose to have a view, but then he/she is elected, and may seek to get TfL to do certain things to those ends. There are, of course, many voters whose lives are affected adversely at times by the night time economy and those partaking in it, and their views can also be communicated to the Mayor.
 

pitdiver

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no, it's because i have some experience from the inside, and see the reality of running this play service for ****heads.



The evidence is clear - trains running with loadings as low as 0%.

Likewise, the actual picture is if one turns up for a train at somewhere like edgware early on a saturday or sunday morning, the carriage is likely to smell of urine, or worse you may be unlucky and find yourself sitting on it.



How do you propose they do this? By having more than 24 hours in a day?

If a piece of equipment develops a fault (for example a defect with a rail, a broken or defective component on a set of points, or a defect with signalling apparatus) it requires staff to go and fix, most probably involving equipment being brought to site, probably followed by a period of testing too. If something goes wrong in the traffic day, the problem will be fixed if the effect on the service is sufficiently serious, or most likely will be dealt with in engineering hours, with likely some kind of limit on the service in the interim, perhaps a platform or siding being out of commission. If something goes wrong from friday morning onwards, there is now no non-disruptive maintenance opportunity until sunday night, thus screwing the weekend day passengers. Unless of course we suspend the precious night tube, but that's not even always a viable option because the number of engineering staff have been slimmed down on friday and saturday nights because it is no longer viable paying people to sit around unable to do any productive work.

There have been plenty of instances where the railway has had to limp through saturday and sunday because something has gone wrong at some point. I can also think of instances where monday morning has been messed up because work has been left until the sunday night and something unexpected has cropped up leading to the work not being finished in time.

But as long as the ****heads get their ****head special train home on friday and saturday nights then all is well. :(

scrap the whole thing, it's a waste of time and money. We managed perfectly well without it for the first 150+ years of the underground's operation, and i don't remember seeing too many tears when it came in over a year late whilst all the er issues were ironed out. The few days of strikes probably cost london's economy far more than the night tube will ever bring in.

hear bl**dy hear!


















8
 

Lrd

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It seems like the Central Line is the only busy line from you lot moaning on here. We get some very health loadings right through until 4am when it quitens down for an hour then the commuters start coming out to play.

Often full and standing up until Woodford and Ealing Broadway in the other direction.

This comes from "the inside" as well...
 

Jordeh

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I don't believe it's TfL's role to boost the night time economy in any way, let alone 'all they can'. The Mayor may choose to have a view, but then he/she is elected, and may seek to get TfL to do certain things to those ends. There are, of course, many voters whose lives are affected adversely at times by the night time economy and those partaking in it, and their views can also be communicated to the Mayor.
Exactly, it is the elected Mayor's Boris Johnson & Sadiq Khan who pushed for Night Tube to happen.

I do not believe there are many voters adversely affected by the night time economy. I certainly don't believe that running trains throughout the night on Friday & Saturday inconveniences people, quite the opposite. A night economy contributes to the economy significantly (As evidenced in my previous posts) and creates jobs as well as adding to the vibrant culture of the city.

No, it's because I have some experience from the inside, and see the reality of running this play service for ****heads.

Likewise, the actual picture is if one turns up for a train at somewhere like Edgware early on a Saturday or Sunday morning, the carriage is likely to smell of urine, or worse you may be unlucky and find yourself sitting on it.
But as long as the ****heads get their ****head special train home on Friday and Saturday nights then all is well. :(

Scrap the whole thing, it's a waste of time and money. We managed perfectly well without it for the first 150+ years of the Underground's operation, and I don't remember seeing too many tears when it came in over a year late whilst all the ER issues were ironed out. The few days of strikes probably cost London's economy far more than the Night Tube will ever bring in.
Finally, you're really showing your true colours now. You can't even describe people who enjoy a drink without turning to expletives.

No doubt there is a very small minority people who urinate or throw-up on services but this is exactly that, a very small minority. It is no reason to give up on the whole thing. If they weren't doing it on the Tube, some of them would be doing it on a bus anyway.

By your own (useless) accounts, no one is using the services anyway!

Just because something hasn't been done for 150+ years, doesn't mean it's too late to start now. There are many cities throughout the world providing transport at night. Nor should the city be held to ransom by the militant unions.

Thank goodness not all people involved in running the railway have an attitude like yourself.
 

bramling

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Finally, you're really showing your true colours now. You can't even describe people who enjoy a drink without turning to expletives.

No doubt there is a very small minority people who urinate or throw-up on services but this is exactly that, a very small minority.

Judging by the amount of cleaning required at termini, it's more than a minority. Pretty disgusting for the cleaning staff who have to clear it up, or for those unfortunate enough to encounter it before cleaning.


By your own (useless) accounts, no one is using the services anyway!

I notice you've completely ignored my point about maintenance, and the negative impact Night Tube is having upon day users, particularly at weekends and on Monday mornings. With weekend running if anything being more tight than in the week having assets unavailable has a particularly detrimental impact on the service.

My comments regarding Night Tube use come from official and reliable data sources, ultimately derived from the load-measuring apparatus fitted to the trains themselves. As it happens, my personal observations appear to support this data.


Nor should the city be held to ransom by the militant unions.

What have militant unions got to do with it? The reasons the strikes happened was because TfL attempted to resource the driving of Night Tube services using existing drivers, who had signed up to their role in the knowledge that depots would only have a handful of night duties primarily running late and last trains plus a few sleet trains or stock moves on an occasional and unplanned basis. I think most reasonable people would find such an increase in the amount of night working unacceptable, especially if not suitably compensated for the change..

Thank goodness not all people involved in running the railway have an attitude like yourself.

I'll let you into a little secret, LU wasn't particularly keen on the Night Tube idea either -- but because it came from the mayor there wasn't much they could do about it.
 
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Mutant Lemming

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. Nor should the city be held to ransom by the militant unions.

.

...and you show your true colours, Some people will not be happy until all "menial" workers are driven down to minimum wage zero hour contracts.

Meanwhile the real parasites keep leeching off our backs while telling the rest of us to 'tighten our belts'.
 

Jordeh

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...and you show your true colours, Some people will not be happy until all "menial" workers are driven down to minimum wage zero hour contracts.
London Underground workers couldn't be further away from minimum wage zero hour contracts so they're not relevant at all - yet despite their very generous contracts they've gained from holding the city to ransom, they don't seem happy either. Perhaps it's something to do with their militant unions.
 
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Deerfold

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London Underground workers couldn't be further away from minimum wage zero hour contracts so they're not relevant at all - yet despite their very generous contracts they've gained from holding the city to ransom, they don't seem happy either. Perhaps it's something to do with their militant unions.

They're not on minimum wage zero hour contracts. This may have something to do with them being unionised.

The vast majority of recent action has been against the removal of ticket offices, with no financial gains.
 

Antman

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I've already said the anecdotal evidence doesn't seem to be telling the actual picture.

TfL did not expect it to be an instant success overnight, hence why they have given it a few years to become profitable but as has already been stated, it is beating their expectations and well on the way to covering its costs. Likewise they will get better at handling the maintenance too.Then of course there is the measurable boost to the night time economy which is a very good thing. I really don't accept it is a waste of time, money and resources. TfL as a public transport operator should be doing all they can to boost the night time economy.

It baffles me some transport enthusiasts are so keen to see actual improvements to service fail. I wonder why that is? Because it doesn't benefit them personally? Or just some arbitrary close mindedness due to a resistance to change?


Absolutely, I've used the northern line at night and it was reasonably busy, about the sort of loadings you might expect, and surprise surprise there was no stench of vomit or urine either. I'm sure there have some anti social behavior issues but some people are clearly exaggerating things to suit their own negative argument, for me the night tube is great and I've heard many users express similar sentiments.
 

duncanp

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I have used the Victoria Line night tube service a few times (at about 04:00 or 05:00) and there has also been no stench of vomit or urine, nor were there any used McDonalds wrappers.

In fact, if anything the trains were cleaner than during the week, with no free morning or evening newspapers littering the carriage.
 

Mojo

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The track area is incredibly dirty on Sunday and Monday mornings with lots of rubbish, particularly drink cans which can cause delays as they interfere with track circuits and trainstops, and plastic drink bottles. I've noticed a lot of black marks on train floors, which I presume is sticky drink spillages combined with dirt off the bottom of shoes. Lots of stations are filthy too, with suspicious liquids all over the place, but probably no worse than the old situation around the old close/start of traffic times on weekends.
 

Clip

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The evidence is clear - trains running with loadings as low as 0%.


If this is the case then how does this happen?

Likewise, the actual picture is if one turns up for a train at somewhere like Edgware early on a Saturday or Sunday morning, the carriage is likely to smell of urine, or worse you may be unlucky and find yourself sitting on it.

And surely your claim of 0% contradicts this post

Not at all, one can still look at Trackernet and see loadings, especially for the Victoria Line which expresses Train loadings as a percentage. Very rarely above about 15%, typically between 3 and 7%.

.
 

Techniquest

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Biggest load of tosh I've ever heard. I've never seen it that quiet on the Victoria line's Night Tube services. Granted, there's been a few heading north around 0245 (and later on southbound around 0345) that have been a bit empty, but to suggest the service is a waste of time is very unfair.

The suggestion that Night Tube users make a pigsty of the trains is very unfair too. I've never experienced such a thing. Yes I've seen some McDonalds (poor souls...) wrappers on the Central line around 0210 in the morning, but nothing worse than what the commuters leave behind them. Empty coffee cups, empty bottles of water, those waste-of-ink free newspapers and all sorts more litter the trains just after they've all gone to work for the day/got home for the evening. Mind you, mainline trains are no better for that until the cleaners need a refuse lorry to clean up after the morning lot...

Yes that is a bit of a generalisation, a rather sweeping stereotype. Not everyone is like that and not all trains are filthy after the peaks, much credit must go to those who do look after their environment and use bins where provided. Moreso, credit to the cleaners who have to deal with the mess!

EDIT: For those who did read my final comment, my apologies. No comment on what it was about, but red was seen and I appreciate Mojo pointing it out.
 
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bramling

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If this is the case then how does this happen?



And surely your claim of 0% contradicts this post

No it does not contradict at all.

I am simply referring to official data which I have seen and do see on a regular basis, which unlike the perceptions being posted elsewhere are derived from the load measuring systems fitted to the trains themselves.
 

RJ

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Now that the information has been made public through the TfL Journey Planner, I can confirm that the bus service for the Central Line closure on 2/3 September 2017 will run as follows:-

Service A - Stratford <-> Redbridge (all stops). Should be good fun on the Sunday as a car-free street festival in Leytonstone has been planned for that day :) . The 66 bridges the gap to connect with Service C.

Service B - Stratford <-> Loughton (direct between Stratford and Snaresbrook). This will start just before 3am on the Saturday and run continuously until close of traffic on Sunday, making it the first proper Night Tube rail replacement service! It will run every 20 minutes during Night Tube hours. Announced on Facebook that Sullivan Buses will run this one.

Service C - Ilford <-> Woodford via Hainault. As it's shown to run via Fairlop station, it will require single deck buses. It's a fairly intensive 10 minute service west of Hainault - PVRs for single deck bus routes tend to be similar to weekdays leaving few spares lying around, so it'll be interesting to see what turns up on this route. The N8 will broadly deputise for the night element of the Hainault branch. Newbury Park is served by the 296. As for Leyton, the 158 runs to Stratford but it may work out quicker to go via Blackhorse Road to/from Central London.
 
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Dstock7080

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TTNs Temporary Timetable Notices issued to commence Monday 6 July removing Night Tube services “until further notice” on Central, Jubilee, Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria.

Services last operated on morning of Sunday 15 March 2020
 
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