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Northern Line

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Lewlew

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The 95 stock is a good and reliable train (my avatar gives that away!) but I do worry how stretched the fleet will be, with the Battersea extension and the massive number of flats being built on the route at places like Colindale

By 2035 they and the Jubilee will be the oldest trains on the network too
92 stock will still be around in 2035. The 72 stock will also very likely still be hanging around then too
 
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Mikey C

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92 stock will still be around in 2035. The 72 stock will also very likely still be hanging around then too
No chance. You'd expect the Piccadilly line deliveries would be complete by 2027 and I'd be staggered if the shiny new "red wall" factory was forced to shut because the planned follow up orders to replace the 72 and 92 stock were cancelled
 

700007

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The 95 stock is a good and reliable train (my avatar gives that away!) but I do worry how stretched the fleet will be, with the Battersea extension and the massive number of flats being built on the route at places like Colindale

By 2035 they and the Jubilee will be the oldest trains on the network too
At this rate, and in this dire economy, the 1972s will still be around in 2035....

Almost seems that they'd like to replace 1992s first as well, and try get 1972 replacement to co-incide with any future extension of the Bakerloo line to/via Lewisham.

No chance. You'd expect the Piccadilly line deliveries would be complete by 2027 and I'd be staggered if the shiny new "red wall" factory was forced to shut because the planned follow up orders to replace the 72 and 92 stock were cancelled
I definitely get that but surely Siemens at the same time should be trying to get other new contracts non-Underground related in the meantime to keep them busy? Don't put your eggs all in one basket and all of that. As blunt as it sounds, it's not entirely TfLs issue to worry about the decisions a private company made. But I definitely see a follow up order exercised for at least one of the lines (if I was a betting man, I'd say Central).
 

Rogmi

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Trains from the Charing cross branch can go round the Kennington loop and head north, no need to remove passengers, if they don't get off the so be it. trains from bank would have to tip out and have staff check they were empty and reverse via the Kennington siding, this is unsustainable with the current service levels, regardless of the fact that one difficult sleeper who will not leave the train would end up with a service suspension.

The reason they have to be tipped out is because the driver has to walk through the train when reversing via the siding but can stay in the cab when going round the loop.
It used to be that the reason passengers could be taken round the Kennington loop was because it was a colour signal move. Indeed, many years ago this was a booked passenger move when CX reversers non-stopped the SB platform when it was closed due to the IMR going bang (or whatever!). Passengers for stations beyond Kennington got off at Waterloo and waited for the next Morden train.

Drivers were always taught that passengers shouldn't be taken past shunt signals unless the route was secured because there wasn't the same amount of safety involved (point detection, locking, or whatever, I can't remember now). However, I think that over the years that may have improved and that on the running lines a shunt move ended up just as safe as a colour-light move.

It certainly didn't bother LU when trains became driver only and the Drivers were then told just to announce "all change" then close the doors before going into a siding instead of doing a platform detrainment. This, of course, led to more passengers ending up on trains in the siding and the potential safety risk to drivers from stroppy passengers. Some drivers would still detrain anyway (sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't). I think that eventually this practice was stopped, possibly due to at least one passenger fatality) and usual detrainment methods were applied when reversing in a siding. Even in the loop where up to three trains could (then) be held, it was not unusual to hear the slamming of doors as a passenger would start walking through the train after it had been held for a while at one of the signals there.
 

Mikey C

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At this rate, and in this dire economy, the 1972s will still be around in 2035....

Almost seems that they'd like to replace 1992s first as well, and try get 1972 replacement to co-incide with any future extension of the Bakerloo line to/via Lewisham.


I definitely get that but surely Siemens at the same time should be trying to get other new contracts non-Underground related in the meantime to keep them busy? Don't put your eggs all in one basket and all of that. As blunt as it sounds, it's not entirely TfLs issue to worry about the decisions a private company made. But I definitely see a follow up order exercised for at least one of the lines (if I was a betting man, I'd say Central).
The 72 Mk1 stock was ordered to give Metro Cammell much needed work, so there is a precedent

And I wasn't suggesting that politically TfL would care about the Goole factory, but rather the national government!
 

PeterY

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The 95 stock is a good and reliable train (my avatar gives that away!) but I do worry how stretched the fleet will be, with the Battersea extension and the massive number of flats being built on the route at places like Colindale

By 2035 they and the Jubilee will be the oldest trains on the network too
Assuming TfL have replaced the Bakerloo line trains by then :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

class379

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The 95 stock is a good and reliable train (my avatar gives that away!) but I do worry how stretched the fleet will be, with the Battersea extension and the massive number of flats being built on the route at places like Colindale

By 2035 they and the Jubilee will be the oldest trains on the network too
is there way way a few extra 1995 stock "replicas" could be built? Obviously not identical but something mechanically similar
 

rebmcr

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is there way way a few extra 1995 stock "replicas" could be built? Obviously not identical but something mechanically similar
TfL looked into that during the 2010s, with the aim of juggling the 1995 and 1996 fleets around to make the numbers line up. They concluded that it was more cost-effective to combine the 1995 and 1996 fleets (scrapping the remainder), and build new stock for one of the lines.

The main sticking point is that the fleets are already midway through their working lives, so any extras would have much less time in which to return the investment in building them.
 

D365

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The 95 stock is a good and reliable train (my avatar gives that away!) but I do worry how stretched the fleet will be, with the Battersea extension and the massive number of flats being built on the route at places like Colindale
This is exactly my fear. How far back can the extremities of the Northern line be trimmed?
 

Dstock7080

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TfL website states that the new timetable in Autumn when the Battersea extension opens will see Mill Hill East becoming a through service again, rather interestingly. Battersea will only see 6 trains an hour initially and eventually up to 12 next year which means many trains will still terminate at Kennington (via Charing Cross) which is understandable given no new trains / extra trains have been sourced for the extension.
How many Charing Cross branch trains will still use the loop ones the extension opens. Not many I should think?
Battersea trains every 12min off-peak via Charing Cross; pattern= Barnet, Mill Hill, Barnet, Barnet, Barnet each-hour.
15min service from Mill Hill; alternating Morden via Bank; Battersea via Charing Cross; Morden via Bank; Kennington via Charing Cross each hour.
still 15tph off-peak Charing Cross trains use Kennington loop
 

greatkingrat

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Battersea trains every 12min off-peak via Charing Cross; pattern= Barnet, Mill Hill, Barnet, Barnet, Barnet each-hour.
15min service from Mill Hill; alternating Morden via Bank; Battersea via Charing Cross; Morden via Bank; Kennington via Charing Cross each hour.
still 15tph off-peak Charing Cross trains use Kennington loop
I can see that causing problems on the single line to Mill Hill East if there are delays on one branch but not the other.
 
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What is the eventual plan when Battersea is opened? Will the line be split into two permanent branches in the near future?
 

rebmcr

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What is the eventual plan when Battersea is opened? Will the line be split into two permanent branches in the near future?
There can be no split until a total rebuild of Camden Town station, which will not be in the near future.
 

LUYMun

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Aside from the wrong stations being labelled, why is the Battersea branch depicted as a shuttle service from Kennington?
Realised my mistake, crossed out post.
 
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Mikey C

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What is the eventual plan when Battersea is opened? Will the line be split into two permanent branches in the near future?
No permanent split yet

Battersea can only be served by Charing Cross trains, but not all of them will go that way. Many will still terminate at Kennington while some peak hour ones will still continue to Morden I think
 

Snow1964

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Page 19 of latest TfL Commissioners report

The planning for the delivery of the Northern line speed uplift continues and signalling software improvements are targeted for commissioning on the railway in mid-2022. The Northern line power supply enhancement work continues. This will provide system capacity and resilience for reliable services during planned or unplanned outages.

 

malc-c

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Quick question, are there any direct services form Kings Cross to Battersea, or do you need to change at Kennington.
 

jfollows

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Quick question, are there any direct services form Kings Cross to Battersea, or do you need to change at Kennington.
Quick answer, no, you need to change.
Slightly longer answer, no, because the layout at Kennington does not allow for a train from King's Cross via London Bridge to access the route to Battersea Power Station (see http://cartometro.com/documents/CartoMetroLondon.v4.0.pdf for more detail, extract from which I attach below)
1638365690876.png
 
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swt_passenger

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Quick question, are there any direct services form Kings Cross to Battersea, or do you need to change at Kennington.
No, the track layout at Kennington doesn’t allow for trains from the Bank branch to reach Battersea.
 

malc-c

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Many thanks guys - I looked at the standard tube route and wasn't clear to me if the icon used at Kennington was such that a direct connection was possible.

So Kings Cross to Kennington and then change to go two stops up on the new extension to Battersea power station - thanks
 
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