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Northern rail 142 from September the 14th

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Bow Fell

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Diagram 1:

Man Picc-Chester starting with 0651 ex-Chester (ECS from NH) then 0841 ex-Picc etc (coupled to 150).

Diagram 2:

05:56 ex-Chester then ECS to NH then NH - Vic then 23:32 ex-Victoria to Rochdale

Diagram 3:

Piccadilly-New Mills Cen (with 150)


Diagram 4:

AM Peak Piccadilly-New Mills Cen (with 150)

Diagram 5, 7, 8:

Kirkby-Man Vic

Diagram 6:

AM Peak Victoria-Stalybridge-Wigan-Victoria.

8 diagrams in total, + spare/exam.
 

HST43257

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Diagram 1:

Man Picc-Chester starting with 0651 ex-Chester (ECS from NH) then 0841 ex-Picc etc (coupled to 150).

Diagram 2:

05:56 ex-Chester then ECS to NH then NH - Vic then 23:32 ex-Victoria to Rochdale

Diagram 3:

Piccadilly-New Mills Cen (with 150)


Diagram 4:

AM Peak Piccadilly-New Mills Cen (with 150)

Diagram 5, 7, 8:

Kirkby-Man Vic

Diagram 6:

AM Peak Victoria-Stalybridge-Wigan-Victoria.

8 diagrams in total, + spare/exam.
Is Kirkby without 150?
 

markymark2000

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Diagram 1:

Man Picc-Chester starting with 0651 ex-Chester (ECS from NH) then 0841 ex-Picc etc (coupled to 150).

Diagram 2:

05:56 ex-Chester then ECS to NH then NH - Vic then 23:32 ex-Victoria to Rochdale
On Diagram 1, can you please confirm if the 142 stays out all day?
ECS from Newton Heath
06:51 CTR - MAN 08:17
08:41 MAN - CTR 10:10
11:02 CTR - MAN 12:32
12:41 MAN - CTR 14:12
15:02 CTR - MAN 16:31
16:41 MAN - CTR 18:10
19:00 CTR - MAN 20:32
20:41 MAN - CTR 22:12
ECS to Stockport

On Diagram 2, can I please ask for you to check as I can't find any details of a 05:56 Northern run to Manchester. Are you then saying it runs from Manchester to Newton Heath ECS and stays there all day until the lat evening when it does the 23:32 from Vic to Rochdale.
 

Bow Fell

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On Diagram 1, can you please confirm if the 142 stays out all day?
ECS from Newton Heath
06:51 CTR - MAN 08:17
08:41 MAN - CTR 10:10
11:02 CTR - MAN 12:32
12:41 MAN - CTR 14:12
15:02 CTR - MAN 16:31
16:41 MAN - CTR 18:10
19:00 CTR - MAN 20:32
20:41 MAN - CTR 22:12
ECS to Stockport

On Diagram 2, can I please ask for you to check as I can't find any details of a 05:56 Northern run to Manchester. Are you then saying it runs from Manchester to Newton Heath ECS and stays there all day until the lat evening when it does the 23:32 from Vic to Rochdale.

Diagram 1 - stables at Chester.

Diagram 2 - 05:56 Chester-Man Picc ECS to NH then nothing until 23:32 to Rochdale.
 

HST43257

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Is specific information available for diagrams 3, 5, 7 and 8?
 

peters

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Diagram 2 is interesting that it only does that 1 trip then does nothing all day.

Driver shortages must be really bad if they can even use that set to operate a 07:41 Manchester to Chester, which would normally be the next service for that train and that is usually a very well utilised service, at least as far as Knutsford. I've heard a lot of people have told Northern the 06:51 Chester to Manchester gets them in to Manchester too late for their usual shift time, with alternative public transport not being available but up until now Northern have been reluctant to add the 05:56 back in. It seems in the case of passengers who would use the 07:41 Manchester to Chester they are just told they have to travel earlier or later and if that means your child arriving at school before 8am then tough.
 

warwickshire

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Diagram 1 - stables at Chester.

Diagram 2 - 05:56 Chester-Man Picc ECS to NH then nothing until 23:32 to Rochdale.
Will diagram 2 now change Monday to Friday to cover the new extra am service from next week Manchester Piccadilly to rose Hill. See other thread for this and then go back to newton Heath T.M.D after that.
 

peters

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15:02 CTR - MAN 16:31

The 15:02 Chester to Manchester has been struggling to keep to time due to the high number of people boarding and alighting the service at intermediate stations. I imagine this will only get worse with one of the trains used on the service being downgraded to a Pacer.
 

Rail Ranger

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On Saturdays the set forming the 05.56 Chester to Piccadilly then goes ECS to Stockport before forming an 09.45 Stockport to Stalybridge which then goes ECS to Newton Heath.
 

Ianno87

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On Saturdays the set forming the 05.56 Chester to Piccadilly then goes ECS to Stockport before forming an 09.45 Stockport to Stalybridge when then goes ECS to Newton Heath.

Well, good to see the Denton flyer gets to be a Pacer :)
 

Murray J

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just been told by a friend that 142058 will be working the following services today (presumably coupled to a 150 or 156), in order to get it into position at Wigan Wallgate CS.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79714/2020-09-13/detailed 5J59 09:14 Newton Heath T.M.D to Manchester Victoria
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79696/2020-09-13/detailed 2J59 0925 Manchester Victoria to Wigan North Western
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79283/2020-09-13/detailed 2J43 10:27 Wigan North Western to Blackburn
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79554/2020-09-13/detailed 2J64 13:12 Blackburn to Wigan North Western
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79286/2020-09-13/detailed 2J49 16:27 Wigan North Western to Blackburn
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79711/2020-09-13/detailed 2W70 19:12 Blackburn to Wigan Wallgate
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S79721/2020-09-13/detailed 5W70 21:15 Wigan Wallgate to Wigan Wallgate Up C.S
 

warwickshire

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Does anyone have any more information on the full diagramms for these new workings Sunday to Saturday each day from Monday to Sunday inclusive on the 142 new workings.
 

Murray J

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Does anyone have any more information on the full diagramms for these new workings Sunday to Saturday each day from Monday to Sunday inclusive on the 142 new workings.
these are the monday to friday diagrams, again thanks to my friend.
 

peters

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Not a good start for one of the new diagrams. The 05:56 Chester to Manchester departed 40 minutes late and Northern decided to cancel most stops on the service to make up time.
 

py_megapixel

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On Saturdays the set forming the 05.56 Chester to Piccadilly then goes ECS to Stockport before forming an 09.45 Stockport to Stalybridge which then goes ECS to Newton Heath.
I think it's rather impressive, Northern's commitment to neglecting that line. They even send out one of the last Pacers specifically to serve it!
 
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warwickshire

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Not a good start for one of the new diagrams. The 05:56 Chester to Manchester departed 40 minutes late and Northern decided to cancel most stops on the service to make up time.
Also the first service from Manchester Piccadilly to new Mills was cancelled as well due to train late from Depot excuse and also the first Sheffield left very late around 38 minutes or so from Manchester Piccadilly. Most likely 195 issues where to blame for this. Just dosent make sense and northerns incompetence. Even worse with 142071 and 142068 still warm store at Blackburn king Street. Why cannot these have been used instead and also back at newton Heath T.M.D where they belong. Just like another repeat off the winter December to March prior to covid 19 timetable period off when in store at heaton T&R.S.M.D and constant cancellations at leeds etc no unit or suitable unit. Also due to new Mills Central services being resent to rose Hill Marple. New Mills Central customers this morning have Also had a bad end deal off a timetable change .
 

peters

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Most likely 195 issues where to blame for this.

Looks like the Chester issue related to a driver not being at Victoria in time. RTT shows the movement stops at Victoria 'for staffing reasons' and it remained there for almost 40 minutes: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C35348/2020-09-14/detailed

RTT also shows the train for the 06:01 movement to New Mills got to Piccadilly at 06:04 but the previous 05:46 service to Sheffield didn't leave until almost 06:27. I don't think it takes over 20 minutes to divide a train so again it probably relates to drivers not being there on time.

Just like another repeat off the winter December to March prior to covid 19 timetable period off when in store at heaton T&R.S.M.D and constant cancellations at leeds etc no unit or suitable unit.

Didn't the Pacers get a three month extension anyway? I was informed they should have been all withdrawn by September 2019 but they a buffer period until December 2019 that they could use to allow for new trains not being delivered on time or refurbishments being delayed. I don't think they should have been given an indefinite extension, telling Northern they have 3 months to sort out the issues is more likely to prompt action than telling them they can keep the Pacers in service for as long as they need.
 

warwickshire

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Looks like the Chester issue related to a driver not being at Victoria in time. RTT shows the movement stops at Victoria 'for staffing reasons' and it remained there for almost 40 minutes: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C35348/2020-09-14/detailed

RTT also shows the train for the 06:01 movement to New Mills got to Piccadilly at 06:04 but the previous 05:46 service to Sheffield didn't leave until almost 06:27. I don't think it takes over 20 minutes to divide a train so again it probably relates to drivers not being there on time.



Didn't the Pacers get a three month extension anyway? I was informed they should have been all withdrawn by September 2019 but they a buffer period until December 2019 that they could use to allow for new trains not being delivered on time or refurbishments being delayed. I don't think they should have been given an indefinite extension, telling Northern they have 3 months to sort out the issues is more likely to prompt action than telling them they can keep the Pacers in service for as long as they need.
Pacers originally had a extension to may 2020 but at the time only around 24. However tfw had the extension to july 2020 and Also not only that kept all off them and had full no restrictions applied unlike northern attached to a 150 and a limited number off them. Northern didn't get or even insure or ask or obtain more off them until may 2020 had it done so it wouldn't have had so many cancellations. Also same as with its dispensation it should have been the same as tfws. Because on northern unlike tfw it had many cancellations again mainly drivers and 195 knowledge and even on north west side on Manchester to Wigan's services etc cancelled due to 142 available but cannot run solo. However Leeds saw especially local services no units at all due to 195 issues on east side and sprinters substitute etc. And then no trains for knottingley or knaresbourghs off which Pacers could have covered especially during January and February. Off which till prior December the 14th 2019. They did but a overcrowded train at that time was better than no train. As we know the Pacer cull on December the 14th timetable change 2019. which saw Pacers stored out off service at longsight .gascoigne wood. worksop. heaton etc. Saw around the first two weeks off December x20. Then as well that weekend was the worst with x12 gone newton Heath T.M.D and 21 from Leeds area. With no spares and major 195 knowledge issues and reliability issues no wonder Leeds area till early March had so many cancellations. The removal off x21 was just to much one reason behind the downfall off the original franchise but amongst others.
 

warwickshire

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Looks like the Chester issue related to a driver not being at Victoria in time. RTT shows the movement stops at Victoria 'for staffing reasons' and it remained there for almost 40 minutes: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C35348/2020-09-14/detailed

RTT also shows the train for the 06:01 movement to New Mills got to Piccadilly at 06:04 but the previous 05:46 service to Sheffield didn't leave until almost 06:27. I don't think it takes over 20 minutes to divide a train so again it probably relates to drivers not being there on time.



Didn't the Pacers get a three month extension anyway? I was informed they should have been all withdrawn by September 2019 but they a buffer period until December 2019 that they could use to allow for new trains not being delivered on time or refurbishments being delayed. I don't think they should have been given an indefinite extension, telling Northern they have 3 months to sort out the issues is more likely to prompt action than telling them they can keep the Pacers in service for as long as they need.
Also correction to above my apologies it was the empties 5s03 to new Mills Central that was cancelled but the return working was cancelled from new Mills Central 2s03 on live rail record. Ie in passenger service from new Mills Central.
 

peters

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Pacers originally had a extension to may 2020 but at the time only around 24.

I was actually referring to being told all Pacers would be withdrawn in September 2019 and then Northern continuing to use Pacers on just about any service until December 2019 before they got the special dispensation from the government to keep a small number on service on selected lines.

However Leeds saw especially local services no units at all due to 195 issues on east side and sprinters substitute etc. And then no trains for knottingley or knaresbourghs off which Pacers could have covered especially during January and February. Off which till prior December the 14th 2019.

I've found for a number of years if there's a train fault which can't be repaired then Northern's initial response is usually to split a pair of trains in to two separate trains so that two services run with reduced capacity, opposed to one being cancelled or requiring a train to be shunted in from the depot to replace the faulty train.

these are the monday to friday diagrams, again thanks to my friend.

Looks like following the problems yesterday morning the units off the 20:41 Piccadilly to Chester last night remained at Chester for the night and then ran the 05:56 Chester to Manchester this morning.
 
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bristollh

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Saturdays look a bit different to weekdays if today is anything to go by. 142065 did 0556 Chester to Manchester then (locked out of use) 0945 Stockport to Stalybridge. Neither New Mills diagram has one one not any other Chester I saw, but all three Victoria to Kirkby diagrams feature 142s with 142018/070/094 out.

Jeff
 
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warwickshire

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Saturdays look a bit different to weekdays if today is anything to go by. 142065 did 0556 Chester to Manchester then (locked out of use) 0945 Stockport to Stalybridge. Neither New Mills diagram has one one but all three Victoria to Kirkby diagrams feature 142s with 142018/070/094 out.

Jeff
It appears that x3 142 could be in warm store 142068 and 142071 at Blackburn king Street. 142004 was at newton Heath sidings last Friday the 11th September parked up no lighting. Looking like not used for a little while. Hasant seen use this week. Also the am early mcv to Wigan and syb working has only been a 142 and 150 on Friday. Which could mean like before x2 150 could turn up at any time. However with the kirkby line being the best for 142. Also can any one help or does anyone have any knowledge has the diagramm involving the am first kirkby then ecs to newton Heath and then ecs to Manchester Victoria to form the 1826 to kirkby and pm peak working ending at Wigan. Been replaced with a diagrams that starts at Manchester Victoria works all day to kirkby instead and ends at Wigan because all week that has been the case.
 

peters

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Saturdays look a bit different to weekdays if today is anything to go by. 142065 did 0556 Chester to Manchester then (locked out of use) 0945 Stockport to Stalybridge. Neither New Mills diagram has one one not any other Chester I saw, but all three Victoria to Kirkby diagrams feature 142s with 142018/070/094 out.

Late last year Northern still used Pacers on a number of weekday services but usually on Saturdays there were a large number of them stabled near Stockport station doing nothing. They don't run peak time services on Saturdays so it means fewer diagrams.
 

The exile

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Saturdays look a bit different to weekdays if today is anything to go by. 142065 did 0556 Chester to Manchester then (locked out of use) 0945 Stockport to Stalybridge. Neither New Mills diagram has one one not any other Chester I saw, but all three Victoria to Kirkby diagrams feature 142s with 142018/070/094 out.

Jeff
142065 was also locked out of use between Chester and Greenbank
 

peters

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142065 was also locked out of use between Chester and Greenbank

Why was that? I boarded a 4 car service at Delamere a few weeks ago and nothing was locked out-of-use, just as well really considering 4 people with bikes wanted to board.
 
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