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Northern - Train Driver Apprentice - Leeds, York, Sheffield (23/12/21)

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Carl98k

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I failed my assessment today. I failed on the group bourdon test to the enhanced standard required for Northern. I passed to industry standard but not the enhanced. Good luck to those going forward.
Sorry to hear you wasn’t successful. Who told you that you didn’t reach enhanced standard on group bourdon? The reason I ask is I passed all tests for another TOC except the DFFT. This is the only part that’s enhanced. This came in an email direct from the OPC.
 
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iwasyoungonce

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Sorry to hear you wasn’t successful. Who told you that you didn’t reach enhanced standard on group bourdon? The reason I ask is I passed all tests for another TOC except the DFFT. This is the only part that’s enhanced. This came in an email direct from the OPC.
DFFT is mainly used by companies who require an enhanced pass, its a stand alone test and does not count in the 2 lives rule.
 

Carl98k

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DFFT is mainly used by companies who require an enhanced pass, its a stand alone test and does not count in the 2 lives rule.
Yes I know. The OP said he failed as he didn’t reach the enhanced standard on group bourdon, but there’s no such thing.
 

ALPAL

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Yes I know. The OP said he failed as he didn’t reach the enhanced standard on group bourdon, but there’s no such thing.
All elements of the assessments can have enhanced passes, and the DFFT isn't the only element that makes a TOC's requirement enhanced. For example LNER are an enhanced pass TOC, they do not use the DFFT at all.

My assessments were 1 on 1 with Northern as everyone else failed on the Group Bourdon, so I got a bespoke day and got to ask lots of questions. They didn't go into specifics but said for GB their enhanced required more lines, less mistakes and less omissions than the standard. The tones test allowed less wrong numbers and required more symbols located. The computer tests required a higher result than standard. The MMI required a higher score than standard, the MMI is scored with a number which comes from both your interview and a little bit from the computer quiz you do beforehand.

So a lot of the assessments can be enhanced, so what Gareth says makes sense.
 

Carl98k

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All elements of the assessments can have enhanced passes, and the DFFT isn't the only element that makes a TOC's requirement enhanced. For example LNER are an enhanced pass TOC, they do not use the DFFT at all.

My assessments were 1 on 1 with Northern as everyone else failed on the Group Bourdon, so I got a bespoke day and got to ask lots of questions. They didn't go into specifics but said for GB their enhanced required more lines, less mistakes and less omissions than the standard. The tones test allowed less wrong numbers and required more symbols located. The computer tests required a higher result than standard. The MMI required a higher score than standard, the MMI is scored with a number which comes from both your interview and a little bit from the computer quiz you do beforehand.

So a lot of the assessments can be enhanced, so what Gareth says makes sense.
I’m not doubting what you’re saying at all, and it actually makes sense. But I can only go by the email that was sent to me by the OPC. They said that DFFT was specific to the TOC I applied for, as some TOCs use another test instead. So I ended up with a national pass purely because I failed the DFFT.
 

iwasyoungonce

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Yes I know. The OP said he failed as he didn’t reach the enhanced standard on group bourdon, but there’s no such thing.
I believe there is an enhanced GB standard

My comment was regarding your statement that you failed to reach an enhanced in the DFFT and that this was the only enhanced part, I said nothing relating to the OP you refer to.

As far as the DFFT being specific to the TOC you tested for I think the OPC were referring to the pass mark in this test which can be set at any level we are all fully aware that the TOC's can use a battery of industry standard tests at their disposal both online and face to face.
 

Carl98k

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I believe there is an enhanced GB standard

My comment was regarding your statement that you failed to reach an enhanced in the DFFT and that this was the only enhanced part, I said nothing relating to the OP you refer to.

As far as the DFFT being specific to the TOC you tested for I think the OPC were referring to the pass mark in this test which can be set at any level we are all fully aware that the TOC's can use a battery of industry standard tests at their disposal both online and face to face.
So I was told that all the tests form the national standard. It’s only the extra test that forms the enhanced part, and like you said other TOCs may use something different. But the other tests are the same and pass mark is the same. I’ll post the email I was sent.

I believe there is an enhanced GB standard

My comment was regarding your statement that you failed to reach an enhanced in the DFFT and that this was the only enhanced part, I said nothing relating to the OP you refer to.

As far as the DFFT being specific to the TOC you tested for I think the OPC were referring to the pass mark in this test which can be set at any level we are all fully aware that the TOC's can use a battery of industry standard tests at their disposal both online and face to face.
 

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ALPAL

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So I was told that all the tests form the national standard. It’s only the extra test that forms the enhanced part, and like you said other TOCs may use something different. But the other tests are the same and pass mark is the same. I’ll post the email I was sent.
I think you're over-analysing what that email could mean. I'd interpret that as you've passed everything to GTRs standard/the national standard (well done!) apart from the DFFT, which is all it is saying. From the info there you cannot definitively state anything about enhanced passes as it doesn't confirm nor deny anything about there being enhanced standards on GB etc.

It is well documented that different companies have different pass rates for GB, TEA-occ and TRP; the only thing we know for sure is they obviously all have the national standard as the minimum bar. WMT and Thameslink definitely have enhanced passes for GB as it is the first test you sit with them and you can pass to national standard but still be sent home as you haven't achieved their higher standard - you'd not lose a life in this situation.
 

Carl98k

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I think you're over-analysing what that email could mean. I'd interpret that as you've passed everything to GTRs standard/the national standard (well done!) apart from the DFFT, which is all it is saying. From the info there you cannot definitively state anything about enhanced passes as it doesn't confirm nor deny anything about there being enhanced standards on GB etc.

It is well documented that different companies have different pass rates for GB, TEA-occ and TRP; the only thing we know for sure is they obviously all have the national standard as the minimum bar. WMT and Thameslink definitely have enhanced passes for GB as it is the first test you sit with them and you can pass to national standard but still be sent home as you haven't achieved their higher standard - you'd not lose a life in this situation.
I thought the same if I’m honest, so I called the guy on the email. He said exactly what I’ve quoted in my post. Obviously I can only go on what I’ve heard (from the horses mouth). I know there’s a lot of speculation ect, and that doesn’t help anyone.

Thank you, I was lucky as I did mine during covid. Due to that the tests aren’t marked until the end, so any fails are not picked up during the tests. I believe they’ve gone back to the old way of marking after a couple of tests, if you’ve failed you’re sent home.
 

Ergomy

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12 Aug 2020
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Just been invited to the Leeds interviews! hoping for the best, gonna brush up on where northern goes and hopefully see what I can do!

From last time I tried at Northern, Brakes are the most important part of the safety system :D
 

Raikkonen7

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Just checked the portal and it’s saying invited to interview although I’ve had no email stating this. Anyone else experienced this?
 

TreacleMiller

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22 Feb 2020
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Just been invited to the Leeds interviews! hoping for the best, gonna brush up on where northern goes and hopefully see what I can do!

From last time I tried at Northern, Brakes are the most important part of the safety system :D

Yeah, interview for me too.
 

Owen2323

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18 May 2019
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Just checked the portal and it’s saying invited to interview although I’ve had no email stating this. Anyone else experienced this?

Yes that's quite common with Northern - nearly all updates are done via the portal. I very nearly missed an interview with them once as there was an invite sat waiting for me that I hadn't seen! My advice if you have an application with them is to check it twice daily!
 

Canonite

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I’ve had the email inviting me to interview. It does say that it’s competency based and takes around 60 minutes.
I take it this is the face to face interview, and if successful you progress to the assessment centre?
 

RailLady

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23 Mar 2021
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I got an email saying that the York vacancy has been removed and all applications are not considered at all. As per Northern website I was supposed to be considered for all available vacancies (Leeds) but there was no mention of that.

Id love to know where it states you will be considered for all vacancies on the Northern website... hmmmm
 

Raikkonen7

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Yes that's quite common with Northern - nearly all updates are done via the portal. I very nearly missed an interview with them once as there was an invite sat waiting for me that I hadn't seen! My advice if you have an application with them is to check it twice daily!

Fair enough. I’ll bear that in mind!
 

Gareth90

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17 Jan 2022
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It was explained to me in person by people running the assessment. They 100% said I had passed all the written test to industry standard but failed to reach the enhanced level for the group Bourdon.
 

TreacleMiller

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22 Feb 2020
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Well done, not gone mine for a week or two yet.

Was the dmi as you expected and did it last the full hour?
 

Newapplicant

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21 May 2018
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Morning all,

I'm just looking for a bit of advice if possible. I applied exactly 3 months ago to this day and as yet my application still shows "Application Under Consideration". I note from this thread that others have received interviews and are even now progressing on to further stages.

My question is, would it be worth emailing HR to confirm whether I'm still in the process and that I've not been forgotten about? Given the fact that others are already been interviewed I suspect that I'll be getting a 'end of process' email soon anyway but thought it best to get some advice first.

Any help or advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
 

RMD

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30 Nov 2021
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Midlands
Morning all,

I'm just looking for a bit of advice if possible. I applied exactly 3 months ago to this day and as yet my application still shows "Application Under Consideration". I note from this thread that others have received interviews and are even now progressing on to further stages.

My question is, would it be worth emailing HR to confirm whether I'm still in the process and that I've not been forgotten about? Given the fact that others are already been interviewed I suspect that I'll be getting a 'end of process' email soon anyway but thought it best to get some advice first.

Any help or advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Hi mate, been there recently, hearing others on here getting assessments/interviews but getting nothing myself. For what it's worth the TOCs did get back to me eventually and I've landed myself a position with one of them.

I did email once or twice but only got generic emails back, not sure if it helped my case or not. Suppose it can't hurt. Best of luck.
 
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