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Northern Unit Refurbishments

Neptune

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
2,445
Location
Yorkshire
Thanks when I said return them to 155s that was teh way I envisaged, maybe with the coupler changed to a more permanent type.
I see. Certainly TfW’s way is a good way but I wouldn’t alter the couplings at all as that reduces flexibility. You can operate them as 1,2,3 car etc….. Semi permanently coupling 2 units together halves that flexibility.

I know a lot of enthusiasts have a problem with the small cab but most of us that work the units will tell you that legroom is better in the small end.
 
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Mordac

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2016
Messages
2,303
Location
Birmingham
I see. Certainly TfW’s way is a good way but I wouldn’t alter the couplings at all as that reduces flexibility. You can operate them as 1,2,3 car etc….. Semi permanently coupling 2 units together halves that flexibility.

I know a lot of enthusiasts have a problem with the small cab but most of us that work the units will tell you that legroom is better in the small end.
I don't have a problem as I've obviously never driven them, I only heard drivers complain! Maybe different body types prefer one or the other cab?
 

Adam0984

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2014
Messages
1,072
All the 3 car 158s now have their digital train mods done, now attention turns to the 170s for the digital trains mods at Holbeck with 170472 at first to go down
 

AMD

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
604
150101 is back from its jaunt to the north east and is the first 150/1 with wheel slide protection fitted.
20210629_111659.jpg
 

158757

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2007
Messages
498
Updated list 30/06/21 with units now with Digital Train Mods

Liveries

Northern livery with logos

# – Digital Train Modifications complete (USB, CCTV, additional PIS screens)
# - Northern Connect Mods (Seat reservations)
Prototype refurbishment – light blue seat backs, Arriva turquoise grab poles, cream coloured end walls

150001 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150002 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150003: 150116 / 57209 Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150004: 150112 / 57212 Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150005: 150117 / 52223 Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats (Chapman seats in centre vehicle)

150006: 150147 / 57223 Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

# 150101 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150102 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150103 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150104 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150105 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150106 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150107 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150108 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150109 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150110 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150111 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

# 150113 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150114 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150115 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150118 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150119 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150120 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150121 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150122 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150123 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150124 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

# 150125 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150126 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150127 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150128 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150129 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150130 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150131 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150132 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150133 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150134 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

150135 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150136 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150137 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150138 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150139 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150140 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150141 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150142 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150143 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150144 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150145 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150146 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

150148 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150149 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150150 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

150120, 123, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131 retain Silverlink NSE blue wall carpet
150136 has several rows of seats in airline layout

150201 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150203 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150204 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150205 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150206 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150210 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150211 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150214 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

150215 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150218 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

# 150220 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
150222 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150224 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150225 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
150226 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats

# 150228 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150268 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150269 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150270 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150271 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150272 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150273 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150274 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150275 – Refurbished (prototype style), new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150276 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats
# 150277 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Ashbourne seats


150205 has a row of seats that were incorrectly fitted in a bay layout on refurb

155341 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155342 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155343 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155344 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155345 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
155346 - Refurbished (prototype style), new blue moquette Chapman seats
155347 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats


# 156420 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156421 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156423 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156424 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

# 156425 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156426 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156427 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156428 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156429 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156438 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats

# 156440 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156441 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156443 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156444 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats

156447 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
156448 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156449 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 156451 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats

# 156452 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156454 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats

# 156455 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156459 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156460 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 156461 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156463 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156464 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156465 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

# 156466 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
156468 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156469 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156471 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156472 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156475 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156479 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156480 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats (RAF 100 vinyls)
156481 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats

# 156482 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156483 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156484 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats

156485 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
156486 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156487 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
# 156488 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156489 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156490 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156491 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Richmond seats
156496 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats


# 158752 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158753 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158754 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158755 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158756 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158757 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158758 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats
# 158759 - Refurbished, new blue moquette MTB seats

158782 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158784 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158786 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158787 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158789 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158790 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158791 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158792 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158793 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158794 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

# 158795 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158796 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158797 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158815 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158816 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158817 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158842 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158843 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158844 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

## 158845 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158848 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
## 158849 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158850 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158851 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158853 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158855 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158859 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158860 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats (Thank you NHS vinyls)
158861 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158867 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158868 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158869 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158870 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
158871 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158872 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

# 158901 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158902 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158903 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158904 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158905 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158906 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158907 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158908 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158909 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats
# 158910 - Refurbished, new blue flat cloth Fainsa seats

158752 and 158756 have cream coloured end walls instead of navy blue

158752-759, 782, 786, 789, 867-871 retain the parcels cupboard in the 57 end vehicle

# 170453 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170454 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170455 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170456 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170457 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170458 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170459 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170460 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170461 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170472 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170473 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170474 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170475 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170476 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170477 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats
# 170478 - Refurbished, new blue moquette Chapman seats

170453-458 retain an old first class section (declassified) at each end of the train

Key

Liveries

Northern livery with logos
Unbranded Thameslink White/Blue


319361 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319366 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319367 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319368 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319369 – refurbished, dark purple “Northern Electrics” moquette seats
319370 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats

319372 – unrefurbished, FCC moquette seats and interior
319375 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319378 – refurbished, dark purple “Northern Electrics” moquette seats
319379 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319381 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319383 – refurbished, new blue flat cloth seats
319384 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319385 – refurbished, First Capital Connect moquette seats
319386 – refurbished, dark purple “Northern Electrics” moquette seats


769424 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769431 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769434 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769442 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769448 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769450 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769456 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
769458 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats


319367 has additional PIS screens fitted although never used
All Northern 769s retain a declassified first class section

323223 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323224 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

323225 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

323226 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323227 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323228 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323229 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

323230 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323231 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

323232 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323233 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323234 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323235 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323236 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323237 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323238 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
323239 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

333001 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333002 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333003 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333004 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333005 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333006 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333007 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333008 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333009 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333010 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333011 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333012 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333013 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333014 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
333015 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats

333016 – refurbished, new blue moquette seats
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,219
There are already auto announcements. The TrainFX system was part of the basic PRM mod
I think he's referring to the 170s, which don't have auto announcements. They're coming later this year (with TrainFX I believe)

170454 is the first unit in works to receive the digital train mods.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,645
Location
Northern England
What exactly will any Class 323 receive in the way of refurbishments?
I'm assuming living in the north west you've seen some of Northern's refurbished units (even if not 323s)? It's pretty much the same as the rest of the fleet - repaint of both the interior and exterior, new upholstery, modifications to the wheelchair spaces, a new accessible toilet replacing the old inaccessible one, installation of PIS, new LED light bulbs, and a couple of other small modifications. Wi-Fi, at-seat power and additional information screens are pencilled in for some point too but I don't think any of the 323s have them yet.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,269
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
I'm assuming living in the north west you've seen some of Northern's refurbished units (even if not 323s)? It's pretty much the same as the rest of the fleet - repaint of both the interior and exterior, new upholstery, modifications to the wheelchair spaces, a new accessible toilet replacing the old inaccessible one, installation of PIS, new LED light bulbs, and a couple of other small modifications. Wi-Fi, at-seat power and additional information screens are pencilled in for some point too but I don't think any of the 323s have them yet.
I asked that question as personal medical matters affecting my wife have curtailed any rail travel in recent months and the only Northern units I have travelled upon of late are the CAF built Class 195 and Class 331 units. But thank you for taking the trouble to answer my raised query.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,050
I asked that question as personal medical matters affecting my wife have curtailed any rail travel in recent months and the only Northern units I have travelled upon of late are the CAF built Class 195 and Class 331 units. But thank you for taking the trouble to answer my raised query.
Hope that your wife is better now.
 

43102EMR

Established Member
Joined
28 Mar 2021
Messages
1,254
Location
UK
It's 17. Although it could still wind up being all 28 as the other 9 are still unaccounted for. We'll probably know everything once they start going to Northern.
It’s 26 not 28 - and yeah it makes sense if all transfer, unlike the 319s they’re replacing they can double up on pretty much all the routes they operate to increase capacity.
 

Nymanic

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2014
Messages
146
Location
Manchester
It’s 26 not 28 - and yeah it makes sense if all transfer, unlike the 319s they’re replacing they can double up on pretty much all the routes they operate to increase capacity.
Technically they can't double up on any of the routes they presently operate, unless SDO is retrofitted. Sadly, there's nothing to suggest that's in the pipeline. Heck, for all we know it might not be possible to do economically.

If it's possible, though, I'd expect a reasonable case for all 26 coming up - not least since their reliability could start to falter in the decade ahead.

A pair of 323s would provide more seated capacity than any other stock offering on the Northern network.
 
Last edited:

Halish Railway

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
1,692
Location
West Yorkshire / Birmingham
Technically they can't double up on any of the routes they presently operate, unless SDO is retrofitted. Sadly, there's nothing to suggest that's in the pipeline. Heck, for all we know it might not be possible to do economically.
There have been suggestions that they may work in pairs on services to Blackpool in order to release sufficient 331/0s to work in pairs on Leeds to Skipton services, even still there are a few platforms that need lengthening (Layton, Leyland & Lostock IIRC).

What Northern have planned for the electric services on the eastern side of the Pennines will be crucial in determining what services the 323s will work on the western side of the Pennines; I’m mainly thinking about whether all of the 331/1s will transfer west and what services they will work on or whether Northern will pull a wildcard and bring the 323s to Yorkshire to replace some of the 333s that have the most fatigue on the bogie bolsters, although the only services that could see a reduction from 4 carriages to 3 are those starting and terminating at Bradford Forster Square, with the exception of the services used by the many school pupils along the Airedale and Wharfedale lines.

There is a possibility that they could work on additional services that were promised back in 2016 but not yet implemented such as the additional service to Macclesfield and 4tph to Hazel Grove providing that paths are available. It’s a shame that TRU and the NW electrification hasn’t progressed far enough so that some of the local stopping services could be operated by 323s e.g. Wigan to Alderley Edge and Stalybridge and maybe even a new Stalybridge to Piccadilly all stations vice Ardwick service.
 

Neptune

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
2,445
Location
Yorkshire
The plan on the east is for 331/0’s to work in pairs supplemented by the 333’s. Not all 331/0’s will need to transfer though. The 331/1’s will head west.

It seems to come up regularly here but there is no plan for the 323’s to head east nor has their ever been for the billion reasons given in the past.

The only 323’s ever planned for Leeds NW were the 14 units ordered for initial electrification in the 1990’s which was cancelled due to looming privatisation.
 

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
The plan on the east is for 331/0’s to work in pairs supplemented by the 333’s. Not all 331/0’s will need to transfer though. The 331/1’s will head west.

It seems to come up regularly here but there is no plan for the 323’s to head east nor has their ever been for the billion reasons given in the past.

The only 323’s ever planned for Leeds NW were the 14 units ordered for initial electrification in the 1990’s which was cancelled due to looming privatisation.

Regarding the 323s, did Hunslet who built them went into liquidation soon after the last one was built, and before when privatisation happened back in 1994?
 

MP393

Member
Joined
28 Jun 2021
Messages
323
Location
North West
You can (and we do, on the last service at Christmas) run 6 car 323s on the Manchester - Stoke line. They fit everywhere in the up direction to Stoke. Although that service runs empty stock back, so not sure if the platforms are long enough in the down direction (I don’t sign that route)
 

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