Northern withdraws some CAF trains due to yaw bracket failures

[Bayum]

Are there any pictures of what the yaw dampers should look like to compare against the ones pasted earlier?

 

[childwallblues]

331022 and 331031, which had both been out of service since the yaw damper problem was first reported, are both back in service this morning. Is the temporary fix starting to be applied?

Both were in service yesterday on LIV-BPN services.

 

[Adam0984]

Yes there is a temporary fix being applied with the previously mentioned 331s been the first to get the modification

 

[Neptune]

Yes there is a temporary fix being applied with the previously mentioned 331s been the first to get the modification

You were quick. The emails only just been received lol

 

[Adam0984]

You were quick. The emails only just been received lol

I'm SPT I've got time on my hands

 

[1D53]

Is the temporary fix starting to be applied?

Hoping to get them all done in the next few days.

 

[alm37]

Thanks for the updates, that’s encouraging news.

 

[northernchris]

Hoping to get them all done in the next few days.

That's encouraging, and much quicker than I expected

 

[superkev]

Is the fix in the picture from post #233 above the one being applied. If so looks quite substantial and permanent.
Thanks
K

 

[jonnyfan]

Is the fix in the picture from post #233 above the one being applied. If so looks quite substantial and permanent.
Thanks
K

Yes that is the modification being applied, hopefully they will all be back in service by the weekend.

 

[js1000]

Liverpool to Manchester Airport express service to resume on Monday. That resumption was delayed from the May timetable change so seems as if Northern are now on top of this issue.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Liverpool to Manchester Airport express service to resume on Monday. That resumption was delayed from the May timetable change so seems as if Northern are now on top of this issue.

Aren't those only in the peaks anyway even non COVID?

 

[craigybagel]

Aren't those only in the peaks anyway even non COVID?

No, every hour throughout the day. They took the place of the TPE Liverpool - Scarborough services when they were diverted to run via Chat Moss.

 

[OrangeJuice]

Aren't those only in the peaks anyway even non COVID?

I think they might have run only in the peaks during various unit and train crew shortages, so that might be where the confusion is

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes that is the modification being applied, hopefully they will all be back in service by the weekend.

That looks like it will spread the load over a wider area to prevent future damage to the T slots, but it’s not clear to me if it will also be a satisfactory repair to any T slots that are already damaged/broken?

 

[ScottGallagher]

What are the chances of these being back on Barrow services on Monday, I'm travelling between Barrow and Preston and could do with the superior wifi before I get in a Pendo to Euston !

 

[josla1]

What are the chances of these being back on Barrow services on Monday, I'm travelling between Barrow and Preston and could do with the superior wifi before I get in a Pendo to Euston !

Majority of Barrow/Windermere to Manchester via Preston have been 195’s anyway. There has been one daily diagram of a 156 from what I’ve seen whilst working. The rest have been 195’s.

 

[skyhigh]

That looks like it will spread the load over a wider area to prevent future damage to the T slots, but it’s not clear to me if it will also be a satisfactory repair to any T slots that are already damaged/broken?

I believe it's just a temporary fix to get all the sets back into use while a proper repair is worked out - the trial unit definitely still had a visible crack when I saw it last. Mind you, I've been off a couple of weeks, and given how quickly things are changing they could well have a permanent fix now

 

[edwin_m]

That looks like it will spread the load over a wider area to prevent future damage to the T slots, but it’s not clear to me if it will also be a satisfactory repair to any T slots that are already damaged/broken?

If it spreads the load widely enough, then maybe it doesn't matter that part of the T-slot is damaged.

 

[Ben Anslow]

If it spreads the load widely enough, then maybe it doesn't matter that part of the T-slot is damaged.

Surely they will have or had fixed it to some degree either way having seen pics of 195021 a few weeks ago (on this thread I think) a permanent solution is on the drawing boards be interesting to see if ride quality improves a little bit

 

[swt_passenger]

If it spreads the load widely enough, then maybe it doesn't matter that part of the T-slot is damaged.

Possibly, but doesn’t seem the best quality engineering to hide something that’s damaged. Be interesting to see if it really is a “temporary” repair as well…

 

[edwin_m]

Possibly, but doesn’t seem the best quality engineering to hide something that’s damaged. Be interesting to see if it really is a “temporary” repair as well…

As it's only bolted on, it could be removed periodically for inspection. If the structural analysis suggests it will last indefinitely, and the inspections show no deterioration, then there's no real reason to touch the aluminium.

 

[HSP 2]

We were out on Saturday 5/6/21 and seen a 195/0 (024?) with the modification. But what we did notice was that the mod. had only been applied to the gangway end brackets and not to the cab end brackets. This got us thinking on a three or four car set have the mods. been done to all of the brackets on the intermediate coaches.
This also lead us to thinking could? this also be related to the first set of problems with these units, the intermediate couplings. The last part is only a guess but normally one fault can lead onto another one.

 

[Ben Anslow]

We were out on Saturday 5/6/21 and seen a 195/0 (024?) with the modification. But what we did notice was that the mod. had only been applied to the gangway end brackets and not to the cab end brackets. This got us thinking on a three or four car set have the mods. been done to all of the brackets on the intermediate coaches.
This also lead us to thinking could? this also be related to the first set of problems with these units, the intermediate couplings. The last part is only a guess but normally one fault can lead onto another one.

I don’t think any of the dampers at the cab ends have as much issue with stress as the engine weight is towards the rear of the carriage which is where most cracks had been found. I’m not sure if I am completely correct here but I believe they didn’t give very much specification requirements to caf at first hence these issues the coupler issue was noticed I believe after testing on the Furness line going around the extremely tight curve at Carnforth

 

[mbonwick]

If it spreads the load widely enough, then maybe it doesn't matter that part of the T-slot is damaged.

It matters.
This is only a temporary solution anyway, as eventually it will cause the same damage to the T-slots - it'll just take longer as there are more attachment points. Unlike steel, aluminium does not have an endurance threshold and will suffer fatigue at any loading.

 

[HSP 2]

Are there any pictures of what the yaw dampers should look like to compare against the ones pasted earlier?

This is what a yaw damper should look like its the long horizontal tube like part. HTH

 

[edwin_m]

It matters.
This is only a temporary solution anyway, as eventually it will cause the same damage to the T-slots - it'll just take longer as there are more attachment points. Unlike steel, aluminium does not have an endurance threshold and will suffer fatigue at any loading.

Do you know for certain that it matters or is this your opinion? Apologies if I've missed it, but I've not seen any official information that the solution is temporary.

The fact that aluminium has a finite fatigue life means any solution will fail eventually - it's just a question of pushing that life out to longer than the life of the train. Something we need to be aware of on this forum in 30 years time when we're discussing yet another life extension for 195s.

 

[Adam0984]

It is a temporary solution to get them back in service.
Northern and CAF (and I suppose will involve WMT and TfW) are working for a long term solution. The data from 195002 and the measuring device that was fitted will contribute to this solution and what strains the trains actually go through

 

[mbonwick]

Do you know for certain that it matters or is this your opinion? Apologies if I've missed it, but I've not seen any official information that the solution is temporary.

I know - my job and background is as a metallurgist, albeit not in the rail industry.

Seeing the design up close, I (and a lot of colleagues and other technical railway observers) can't believe that it was ever accepted into production, let alone service - this issue was clearly inevitable.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I (and a lot of colleagues and other technical railway observers) can't believe that it was ever accepted into production, let alone service - this issue was clearly inevitable.

1 word - CAF.