Northumberland Park Depot, track 18

[perryman]

Hello All,

Looking at CartoMetro, I note that the above track moves away from the main depot and closer to what is the southbound platform for Northumberland Park Overground. Is anyone aware if there were/are plans to have a Victoria Line spur (no pun) using the Overground platform for Tottenham Hotspur home matches, given the (fairly) recent rebuild of the stadium? I don't recall reading about any plan to restructure the line/station any more than has happened over the past couple of years, and the build-up of human traffic post-game at NP for the southbound services is already an issue (in my opinion). I also seem the recall (but this could just be my memory playing placebo effect with me) that track 18 was in place since I started using the station and line back in the 1970s.

Thanks in advance.

 

[rebmcr]

The track you describe is visible on Google Maps' satellite imagery as being inside a separate maintenance building.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6014932,-0.0534756,141m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e2

 

[perryman]

The track you describe is visible on Google Maps' satellite imagery as being inside a separate maintenance building.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6014932,-0.0534756,141m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e2

So it is, thanks. I’m fairly sure the track was there in the 70s/80s but without the covering. Could be wrong.

Thanks again

 

[rogercov]

The historical Google Earth imagery shows that the layout has been unchanged since 1999, so it certainly isn't anything to do with the rebuild of the stadium, etc.

Interestingly, whoever last updated OpenStreetMap has put two tracks into that maintenance building, whereas Google Earth 1999 and later (and Carto Metro) only shows one. It looks like there might have been two tracks into it when it was built.

What's the purpose of that building and why is it so different from the other sheds? The track(s) into it seem to follow the alignment of the original tracks of the pre-1960s BR sidings, but I'm not sure if that's significant.

 

[John Webb]

Are we talking about the blue-roofed shed on the left of this photo?
Northumberland Park station

© Copyright Ben Brooksbank and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
(Click on photo to go to the larger original on the Geograph website.)

 

[perryman]

Are we talking about the blue-roofed shed on the left of this photo?
Northumberland Park station

© Copyright Ben Brooksbank and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
(Click on photo to go to the larger original on the Geograph website.)

Yes. Even closer now given the third line is in place.

 

[John Webb]

The historical Google Earth imagery shows that the layout has been unchanged since 1999, so it certainly isn't anything to do with the rebuild of the stadium, etc.

Interestingly, whoever last updated OpenStreetMap has put two tracks into that maintenance building, whereas Google Earth 1999 and later (and Carto Metro) only shows one. It looks like there might have been two tracks into it when it was built.

What's the purpose of that building and why is it so different from the other sheds? The track(s) into it seem to follow the alignment of the original tracks of the pre-1960s BR sidings, but I'm not sure if that's significant.

Yes. Even closer now given the third line is in place.

Right - the photo in post#4 dates from 2007, so before the third line was installed. Looking at the Google aerial view linked in post#2, I suspect this separate shed is possibly where heavy-duty overhauls are carried out? It makes sense from the point of view that such an overhaul would need more room and would create more dirt and dust than perhaps would be acceptable in one of the other buildings?

 

[swt_passenger]

Right - the photo in post#4 dates from 2007, so before the third line was installed. Looking at the Google aerial view linked in post#2, I suspect this separate shed is possibly where heavy-duty overhauls are carried out? It makes sense from the point of view that such an overhaul would need more room and would create more dirt and dust than perhaps would be acceptable in one of the other buildings?

The current Quail map describes it as the wheel lathe shed.

 

[Dstock7080]

The current Quail map describes it as the wheel lathe shed.

18 Road is indeed the wheel lathe
19 Road accommodates the Staff platforms

 

[swt_passenger]

18 Road is indeed the wheel lathe

Presumably if the lathe is in the widest part in the middle of the shed trains get split to use it?

 

[John Webb]

The current Quail map describes it as the wheel lathe shed.

Many thanks for the confirmation of the use of this shed. Wheel-turning is a dirty job so it makes sense to give this a 'room of it's own'!

 

[rogercov]

Further to my last observation, I've taken a closer look at the historical imagery on Google Earth and I'm a bit baffled.

The 1999 imagery shows this wheel lathe shed looking almost identical to today. However, the 2003 imagery shows it under construction. I can't believe that they dismantled it and reassembled it in 2003. It seems far more likely that Google have used some later images in their 1999 version just to confuse us. Considering that the "1999" and "2006" look so similar in other ways, it's obvious that the "2003" image pre-dates both of them.

Perhaps somebody can confirm when the shed was actually built.

Here are the Google images from 1999, 2003 and 2006 for comparison.

 

[swt_passenger]

Further to my last observation, I've taken a closer look at the historical imagery on Google Earth and I'm a bit baffled.

The 1999 imagery shows this wheel lathe shed looking almost identical to today. However, the 2003 imagery shows it under construction. I can't believe that they dismantled it and reassembled it in 2003. It seems far more likely that Google have used some later images in their 1999 version just to confuse us.

Perhaps somebody can confirm when the shed was actually built.

Here are the Google images from 1999, 2003 and 2006 for comparison.

View attachment 95311

I found an article online saying it was completed for Metronet BCV in 2002.

Home

Design & Projects Int Limited (D&P) will close in 2024. All new enquiries should be directed to Depot Dynamic Limited As a result of pending retirement Design & Projects Int Limited (D&P) directors Colin Brooks and Stuart Blyth plan to close D&P. Throughout 2023 all operations will be transferred

www.railwaymaintenance.com

 

[rogercov]

I found an article online saying it was completed for Metronet BCV in 2002.

Home

Design & Projects Int Limited (D&P) will close in 2024. All new enquiries should be directed to Depot Dynamic Limited As a result of pending retirement Design & Projects Int Limited (D&P) directors Colin Brooks and Stuart Blyth plan to close D&P. Throughout 2023 all operations will be transferred

www.railwaymaintenance.com

Thanks. That would explain it.
I guess Googles "1999" imagery is actually post-2002 and the "2003" imagery is pre-2002.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks. That would explain it.
I guess Googles "1999" imagery is actually post-2002 and the "2003" imagery is pre-2002.

Yes, it’s surprising that they seemingly have errors in “both directions”, as it were.

However, the 2003 image probably partially answers my earlier question, the pit where the lathe must be looks as though it’s at the furthest south end of the building, rather than in the middle.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is anyone aware if there were/are plans to have a Victoria Line spur (no pun) using the Overground platform for Tottenham Hotspur home matches, given the (fairly) recent rebuild of the stadium?

This has never been proposed formally. It is, occasionally, suggested by local politicians. When it is asked, there’s an easy response, which is to say “we could look at it, but before we do we’ll need you to go and speak to the local politicians at Walthamstow to tell them you are reducing services there”

 

[perryman]

This has never been proposed formally. It is, occasionally, suggested by local politicians. When it is asked, there’s an easy response, which is to say “we could look at it, but before we do we’ll need you to go and speak to the local politicians at Walthamstow to tell them you are reducing services there”

Thank you for this. I am slightly surprised the club didn't raise it during the planning process. Maybe they did and your answer shut everyone down. The services post game from NP are actually quite decent, even though I usually stay locally for a couple of beers to let the crowding ease.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thank you for this. I am slightly surprised the club didn't raise it during the planning process. Maybe they did and your answer shut everyone down. The services post game from NP are actually quite decent, even though I usually stay locally for a couple of beers to let the crowding ease.

The club had no interest in paying for any transport upgrades at all! They didn’t contribute a penny to the 3rd line / extra services on the Lea Valley, nor the White Hart Lane station upgrade. So building an extension of the Victoria line would have been a long way past their financial means.

 

[Lucan]

Wheel-turning is a dirty job so it makes sense to give this a 'room of it's own'!

I would not have said it was any more dirty than many other maintenance jobs. It creates swarf into the pit but not dust. More like a wheel lathe needs more space around it so does not fit readily alongside other maintenance roads, although it does not get a separate building in most other depots.

the pit where the lathe must be looks as though it’s at the furthest south end of the building, rather than in the middle.

Makes sense, to minimise the need for uncoupling. Looks like you could get a 4-car unit in there with the southern-most wheelset over the lathe.

 

[100andthirty]

Over the years I have seen underfloor wheel lathes (UFWL) in the main sheds and in separate buildings for railway operators in a variety of countries. The key thing for any UFWL is that there is a clear road either side of it for the longest trains that will use it, otherwise access to other roads might be restricted. At Northumberland Park, the constraints of the site linked to the timing of the decision to install it (i.e. whilst the 1967 tube stock was still in service), this UFWL can only deal with 4-car units. If this had not been the case the decision might have been taken to make the 2009 tube stock into block 8-car trains.