Nostalgia: Front seats on 1st Gen DMUs

[notadriver]

I have been on some preseved lines and the blinds were left up, I think there would be complaints if they didn't. I recall many years ago going from Exeter to Exmouth and the blinds were almost always up at least on the right hand side, the driver sat on the left. It was similar in South Wales too. I presume you can still see ahead on the Newcastle Metro unless they have different trains now? you can normally get similar full frontal views on most of the tram networks in England too, well I did on the Croydon & Manchester Bury Trams. (Which bythe way never seem to be long enough for the number of passenegrs using them.)

Poor Newcastle metro drivers are forced to sit in cramped cabs just so there passengers can have a front seat view.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

What I'd like to know is whether everyone thinks train drivers are entitled to privacy at work? Bus and Coach drivers don't get that.

Don King once famously said "You dont get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate."

 

[Scotrail84]

I can remember getting the on the 117s from waverley to various destinations. Id be with my mum and always try to get the front seat for the view. If the blind was down id ask the driver to put them up. They would normally be ok with it. Going over the forth bridge with blind up was amazing when your 8 or 9 years old.

In later years before withdrawl around 97-98 health and safety had kicked in and blinds would remain down. Infact i can remember some units not having any blinds but black bin liners taped up against the window as the blinds had been removed,great repair work from Haymarket depot. These normally had holes in them though as did the blinds

Great days

 

[duffman82]

I remember my only trip on a 101 mainline from Man Pic to Rose hill and back, had to ask the driver to drop the blinds once he did it was a great view and i loved window hanging into Man Pic! Those were the days !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Who ever rushed their way on to a 101 etc in the hope of bagging the front seats so that they could have a cab view on their journey? That was assuming the driver hadn't been a mean so and so by pulling the blind down. Failing that, the back seats quite often had the blinds down for some reason so you could still have a great driver's eye view view if the fronts were taken or the blind was down! Brilliant memories of these great units!

My brother said that he had seen on "YOU TUBE", a journey from Marple to Manchester (in 3 seperate clips), that had been videoed from the front passenger seat, but added that the windscreen on the unit was not very clean.

 

[strange6]

My brother said that he had seen on "YOU TUBE", a journey from Marple to Manchester (in 3 seperate clips), that had been videoed from the front passenger seat, but added that the windscreen on the unit was not very clean.

Well, considering the water from the jet spray had oil in it for some reason, then I'm not too surprised!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That was the drawback on those units, from a viewing point of being in a front seat. Was there any technical reason for the jet spray to have oil in it or was it a fault in a nearby part?

Still, they were very good units and they put in sterling work during their time. They were missed when eventually time took its toll.

 

[strange6]

That was the drawback on those units, from a viewing point of being in a front seat. Was there any technical reason for the jet spray to have oil in it or was it a fault in a nearby part?

Still, they were very good units and they put in sterling work during their time. They were missed when eventually time took its toll.

I think they could have gone on a lot longer if they had been serviced and maintained accordingly. I think health and safety issues consigned them to the scrap heap.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I think they could have gone on a lot longer if they had been serviced and maintained accordingly. I think health and safety issues consigned them to the scrap heap.

Yes, I agree, it's a bit like getting rid of the Routemaster buse in london and the nice older trams in Blackpool, both of which could of gone on for years too and are fare more comfortable than modern vehicles. Health and safetly along & political correctness really irritate me.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, I agree, it's a bit like getting rid of the Routemaster buse in london and the nice older trams in Blackpool, both of which could of gone on for years.

The same also applies to some of the last Standard Class steam locomotives built by British Railways. The 2-10-0 Class 9 engines in particular could certainly have gone on doing sterling work with heavy freight trains for many years after the official date for the end of steam traction on the national network.

 

[John Webb]

I frequently rode in first-generation DMUs on the North Woolwich - Stratford line after they'd replaced the steam-hauled 'Quad-arts' that used to be used. At first this was for train-spotting purposes, but later on I went to work at Ilford and continued to use the line.

There was very little competition for the front seats as the number of passengers was small, so I usually managed to get one. One remarkable experience was on a foggy day (being close to the Thames it often suffered from fogs) when not only did we get 'shot' at a distant signal - ie exploded a fog signal - which seemed to lift the front bogie with a thump, but then nearly ran over three stupid lads who were trespassing by walking down the line with their backs to the approaching trains! They were clinging to the top of a tenfoot wall within a couple of seconds of being hooted at, looking very scared.

On heritage railways, there always seems to be a rush for the front seats when they run early DMUs - one trick is to go to the back of the unit for the first part of the journey and keep your seats there for the return. Has the advantage that on the outward journey you can get a good idea of the best places for photos or video on the return.

John Webb

 

[strange6]

I frequently rode in first-generation DMUs on the North Woolwich - Stratford line after they'd replaced the steam-hauled 'Quad-arts' that used to be used. At first this was for train-spotting purposes, but later on I went to work at Ilford and continued to use the line.

There was very little competition for the front seats as the number of passengers was small, so I usually managed to get one. One remarkable experience was on a foggy day (being close to the Thames it often suffered from fogs) when not only did we get 'shot' at a distant signal - ie exploded a fog signal - which seemed to lift the front bogie with a thump, but then nearly ran over three stupid lads who were trespassing by walking down the line with their backs to the approaching trains! They were clinging to the top of a tenfoot wall within a couple of seconds of being hooted at, looking very scared.

On heritage railways, there always seems to be a rush for the front seats when they run early DMUs - one trick is to go to the back of the unit for the first part of the journey and keep your seats there for the return. Has the advantage that on the outward journey you can get a good idea of the best places for photos or video on the return.

John Webb

Nice post with good advice! I'll be driving a 101 myself this July on a private line, so I'll advise my party of what you have said!

 

[notadriver]

I'm very envious of you Strange6!

 

[Welshman]

Nice post with good advice! I'll be driving a 101 myself this July on a private line, so I'll advise my party of what you have said!

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
I drove a Cl104 on the Churnet Valley Railway last year - fascinating experience.
One thing which surprised me was the amount of pressure needed to keep the accelerator down to stop the "deadman's" device from cutting-in.

I won't say any more - don't want to spoil your anticipation! But I hope you write about it here afterwards.

 

[strange6]

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
I drove a Cl104 on the Churnet Valley Railway last year - fascinating experience.
One thing which surprised me was the amount of pressure needed to keep the accelerator down to stop the "deadman's" device from cutting-in.

I won't say any more - don't want to spoil your anticipation! But I hope you write about it here afterwards.

Thanks for that. I sure will report all about it on these fine forums! I have heard about the pressure needed on the throttle to prevent 'deadman' kicking in. It's on the left side too which is much my weaker hand (no smart comments please!) I'm a bit nervous about the vacuum braking if truth be told.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was it the Class 101 units that, near the end of their life, had a couple of them re-painted in their original green livery? I remember seeing strange coloured units in Manchester Piccadilly at the time on platforms 2 and 3.

 

[Welshman]

Me again!

Yes, they were.

I think there was a 3-car set and a 2-car set, and as far as I can remember, the 3-car set was called "Daisy"

Daisy also spent some time on the Llandudno-Blaenau Ffestiniog branch, affording much beter views of the scenic countryside than the current 150/153s.

 

[tractor]

yes they where good days.
was allways good when the dmu was in poor health and they would put a loco on to assist from stourbridge jcn up old hill bank into new street.spent many a trip staring at the 25s,31,37 and 45s on them trips to birmingham new street!
or just enjoying the view when dmu was in good health!!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think it was just a 3 car set that was repainted green; the 2 car set later on was just the 3 car set minus the trailer, which was withdrawn some time before the driving cars and was stored for some time in Blackpool sidings, gradually fading away even while the driving pair continued to trundle around.

 

[Welshman]

I think it was just a 3 car set that was repainted green; the 2 car set later on was just the 3 car set minus the trailer, which was withdrawn some time before the driving cars and was stored for some time in Blackpool sidings, gradually fading away even while the driving pair continued to trundle around.

Thank you, Peter.
I'm happy to be corrected as the old memory's getting a bit hazy these days!

 

[sprinterguy]

101685 was the BR Green liveried unit in Manchester which did indeed get reduced to a two car unit by losing it's centre trailer car in later years. I believe I am correct in saying that Manchester also had a number of ex-Strathclyde PTE 101s running around in full orange and black SPT livery towards the end of 101 operation, as well as the celebrity Caledonian blue liveried 101692.

 

[43106]

I don't know what the class number was (may not have had one), but on the Cumbrian Coast Line, they used to have Derby Lightweight units numbered M790XX and M796XX. The former were Motor Brake Seconds and the latter were Driving Trailer Composites. Even if the Composite was leading, as a nipper, I used to stand at the door to the driving cab and gawp through the windows. Brilliant stuff! A pity you can't do it now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

These units were built at the BR works at Derby starting in 1954. You are correct in saying that they were never given an official BR class number. They were not just a two coach set, as there were also centre units made which could make 3-car and 4-car sets. The last of these units were withdrawn from service in 1969, meaning that these Derby Lightweight units had a maximum life of 15 years. They were Yellow Diamond in route classification and first started their life somewhere in Yorkshire.

 

[Welshman]

In Yorkshire they were first employed on the Bradford Exchange-Leeds Central routes via Stanningley and Pudsey. Then BR NE Region had the good idea of extending them from Leeds Central to Harrogate [I think previously the regular Harrogate service had mainly run from Leeds City, via Horsforth or Wetherby], and on Summer Sundays they were extended further to Knaresborough.

Passengers flocked to these new trains, attracted mainly by the frequency, cleanness, and views from the front and rear ends. In fact at popular times they were a victim of their own success as demand exceeded stock availability [yes, it was happening even then!], and duplicates had to be introduced of the old, steam-hauled variety, which rather defeated the purpose of many passengers travelling in the first place, and causing great disappointment [how many would be disappointed if a steam-hauled train turned-up in lieu of a dmu today?].

There were reliability issues, and the whole class was hurriedly withdrawn on one occasion, although I cannot remember why. They were also underpowered, and struggled up the banks from Holbeck to Armley Moor and from Bradford Exchange to Laisterdyke. I think there were also concerns from the drivers about their safety with regard to the great expanses of glass -it was about this stage that drivers learned to duck to avoid any flying lumps of coal if passing a steam train coming the other way on watertroughs. The Met.Cam [later 101] units which soon replaced them were more powerful, more reliable and had smaller front windows!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Am I right in thinking that British Railways made a couple of single car units as part of a design trial for rural area use?....or am I thinking of a later class of DMU?

 

[krus_aragon]

Am I right in thinking that British Railways made a couple of single car units as part of a design trial for rural area use?....or am I thinking of a later class of DMU?

There were the bubble cars (Class 121 and 122), which were single driving units. There were also trailers that could be coupled to them, but the driving units outnumbered the trailers.

 

[Welshman]

Am I right in thinking that British Railways made a couple of single car units as part of a design trial for rural area use?....or am I thinking of a later class of DMU?

Two single-unit railcars were included in the original "Derby Lightweight" orders for branch-line services on the LMR. They were numbered M79900/1 and introduced in 1954.

They were introduced on the Bletchley to Buckingham line, and Brian Haresnape's "DMUs- the First Generation" [published Ian Allen 1985], has a photograph of M79901 at Buckingham.

M79900, later named "Iris" survived, and after use in the BR Research Dept, is now preserved on the Ecclesbourne Valley Line in Derbyshire.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking back in time, we all enjoyed the "really modern" 1st Generation DMU and we thought that they were "the state of the art" in all respects. I am sure there are others like me, in the days of steam, who had to use non-corridor suburban stock with 6 seat units facing each other (12 to a compartment). The seating on these had seen very heavy wear and useage over their last 10 years of suburban services.

When I tell some people that I remember the extensive steam hauled local passenger service trains that ran from the terminal east-facing platforms from Manchester Victoria and the destinations that were served, you would think that I was describing the days of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

 

[LE Greys]

Looking back in time, we all enjoyed the "really modern" 1st Generation DMU and we thought that they were "the state of the art" in all respects. I am sure there are others like me, in the days of steam, who had to use non-corridor suburban stock with 6 seat units facing each other (12 to a compartment). The seating on these had seen very heavy wear and useage over their last 10 years of suburban services.

When I tell some people that I remember the extensive steam hauled local passenger service trains that ran from the terminal east-facing platforms from Manchester Victoria and the destinations that were served, you would think that I was describing the days of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

Such stock was working commuter services out of Waterloo in the 1980s, and I think two original 4-EPBs survived to 1995 (possibly in NSE livery). Apart from having cabs at the end and motors under the floor, there was hardly any difference, certainly from a passenger's point of view.