Availability of on-board catering facilities

[dk1]

If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got.

No other way round ot really. What makes it unique.

 

[basfordlad]

Doesn't sound bad, and if that's the standard for non breakfast (through the day) then could actually be better than the pre Covid offering.

I had it and it was OK. Not as good . But when there is only a few people in first class what are they supposed to do....

 

[Robertj21a]

No other way round ot really. What makes it unique.

Pretty sure that it wouldn't take too much effort to rethink a more customer-friendly solution.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I had it and it was OK. Not as good . But when there is only a few people in first class what are they supposed to do....

I can imagine it wouldn't be as good as the hot breakfast (either HST or Meridian option) but better than the rest of the day basic snacks if you're lucky.

 

[dk1]

Pretty sure that it wouldn't take too much effort to rethink a more customer-friendly solution.

If it could have been done it would have after all these years. A crew change has to be done at certain points on the network. It's only usually 15 minutes or so so not a that much of an issue.

 

[CBlue]

If it could have been done it would have after all these years. A crew change has to be done at certain points on the network. It's only usually 15 minutes or so so not a that much of an issue.

Unfortunately not - there does seem to be a strong element of "Well it's always been done this way" in the industry in many ways.

If onboard catering is that hit and miss - and also quite pricy - what incentive is there for anyone to use it or indeed for the TOC's to actually supply it?

 

[6Gman]

If I was CEO of a TOC, I would outsource my catering duties to a retailer like Costa or Starbucks. Use the airport model of selling the retail space and then be tasked with ensuring there are enough people on the train from which to sell.

I rather doubt the likes of Costa would be interested.

 

[Robertj21a]

If it could have been done it would have after all these years. A crew change has to be done at certain points on the network. It's only usually 15 minutes or so so not a that much of an issue.

Some fresh thinking needed. Crew change shouldn't be an insurmountable problem - stock and the finances involved need to be streamlined.

 

[6Gman]

Pretty sure that it wouldn't take too much effort to rethink a more customer-friendly solution.

On a long train journey there will need to be a staff changeover at some point. How do you manage stock at such a changeover without a stocktake?

 

[philthetube]

no other shop has to have a stock check at every staff change.

 

[dk1]

Some fresh thinking needed. Crew change shouldn't be an insurmountable problem - stock and the finances involved need to be streamlined.

Poor staff member can't cash up, do any stock taking & get ready to bail out at the end or changeover part of their shift with punters queuing up to be served.

 

[Robertj21a]

Poor staff member can't cash up, do any stock taking & get ready to bail out at the end or changeover part of their shift with punters queuing up to be served.

Nobody is suggesting that any of the current system should necessarily stay the same, we seem to be forever stuck in ancient procedures. It needs a good Project Manager to review what is actually needed - by the *customer* - and then bring the railway into the 21st century.

 

[dk1]

Nobody is suggesting that any of the current system should necessarily stay the same, we seem to be forever stuck in ancient procedures. It needs a good Project Manager to review what is actually needed - by the *customer* - and then bring the railway into the 21st century.

I do think you are being a tad dramatic. If it could be done better as I said it would be. This is the railway working on onboard long distance trains not at the corner shop. Different world.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Reading between the lines I assume the staff member on duty is responsible for the stock, so if things disappear that haven't been sold they are responsible?

 

[Robertj21a]

I do think you are being a tad dramatic. If it could be done better as I said it would be. This is the railway working on onboard long distance trains not at the corner shop. Different world.

Not dramatic. It's an archaic system that can cause problems for the customer and just needs fresh thinking to streamline it. The basic requirements are quite simple but you make it sound like the staff can't be trusted!.
Get an outsider to Project Manage a wholesale revamp of what is needed and the railways may then finally make good progress.

 

[SlideintomyTMs]

Talking of outsourcing, from my experience standard class trolleys (On EMR) are outsourced to a company cAllied rail gourmet who, while wearing the uniform, work independent of the rest of the train

 

[GB71]

That fundamentally isn't the passenger's problem. If I booked a hotel with breakfast inclusive and it was not provided, I would expect a partial refund to cover its non-provision as a simple matter of fact (though I suppose with a hotel it's easier to calculate it as there's typically also a no-breakfast rate to refund down to). It's actually worse on a train as you mostly can't just get off and pop for a Sausage and Egg McMuffin instead. (This is the problem with the GWR trolley - you have so little chance of seeing it that you can't plan for it to be there, FWIW).

I absolutely agree with Bletchleyites views. Pre-Covid advertised catering on journeys I undertook was present on over 50% of journeys - but only just. I find it really a weak excuse to talk about disruptions etc when almost all TOC's who provide some form of "complimentary" catering to first class passengers make such a big sales play of it in their advertising - and that is where Bletchleyite is spot on and unfortunately I disagree absolutely with dk1 - I am genuinely sick of complaining to 2 TOCs in particular about their inconsistent service - or at least I was pre-COVID. For TPE I used to leave 10 minutes earlier so I can queue and get my own coffee in the morning as it was less than half the time a trolley would turn up and as for LNER and their so-called dinner service on peak Kings Cross departures it frequently doesn't exist or where it does make sure you're not in the last 1st class carriage as you'll get a sandwich and the usual excuses.

Bottom line for me is whatever the offer please, please just deliver what you say you will

 

[dk1]

Not dramatic. It's an archaic system that can cause problems for the customer and just needs fresh thinking to streamline it. The basic requirements are quite simple but you make it sound like the staff can't be trusted!.
Get an outsider to Project Manage a wholesale revamp of what is needed and the railways may then finally make good progress.

Been done so many times & they just fall by the wayside. We will most certainly have to agree to disagree on this one. Spend a week on the ground with staff & see what you think then.

 

[gaillark]

That clause, together with the use of the phrase "complimentary", needs to be made illegal. If it's part of the offer (i.e. used as a selling point, rather than it just showing up to your surprise), it should not be discretionary and its absence or modification should be compensatable. To do otherwise is very close to "bait and switch".

Agree on that.
EMR were very good when they were not providing any catering in first class. On their website they invited you to contact them with your journey details and a copy of your ticket. You ended up with a 25% refund of the fare paid.

LNER still providing biscuit and a packet of crisps and hot drink which is rather poor but told hopefully by October they will enhancing their offer to a "covid secure" menu. I wait with interest what this "covid secure" menu actually comprises of.

 

[GB71]

Been done so many times & they just fall by the wayside. We will most certainly have to agree to disagree on this one. Spend a week on the ground with staff & see what you think then.

I will join in agreeing to disagree with you. All I as a paying customer want is consistency the majority of time I travel - if that really is not possible then don't advertise it is a selling point of service provided. If that's really not possible then abandon catering until what's advertised can reasonably be provided.

I am not looking for big fare reductions or anything like that - just a bit of honesty

 

[dk1]

I will join in agreeing to disagree with you. All I as a paying customer want is consistency the majority of time I travel - if that really is not possible then don't advertise it is a selling point of service provided. If that's really not possible then abandon catering until what's advertised can reasonably be provided.

I am not looking for big fare reductions or anything like that - just a bit of honesty

Are you saying for lack of first class service or buffet/shop closing for staff changeover?

 

[GB71]

Are you saying for lack of first class service or buffet/shop closing for staff changeover?

I am disagreeing with you over the general tone of several of the comments you have made. Whether you have a vested interest in current onboard catering or not I don't know and to be honest not sure it is relevant. You are perfectly entitled to believe that current onboard catering is as good as it gets and are perfectly satisfied with the standard of service provided. If I have mis-read your comments as defending the staus quo then that's my bad.

I personally think that catering is so inconsistent that despite the fact I am usually entitled to expect some form of "complimentary" catering even if it is just a cup of coffee I will more often than not have to add 10 minutes in to my plans to go and grab a coffee.

 

[dk1]

I am disagreeing with you over the general tone of several of the comments you have made. Whether you have a vested interest in current onboard catering or not I don't know and to be honest not sure it is relevant. You are perfectly entitled to believe that current onboard catering is as good as it gets and are perfectly satisfied with the standard of service provided. If I have mis-read your comments as defending the staus quo then that's my bad.

I personally think that catering is so inconsistent that despite the fact I am usually entitled to expect some form of "complimentary" catering even if it is just a cup of coffee I will more often than not have to add 10 minutes in to my plans to go and grab a coffee.

These conversations drifted between at seat 1st class & buffet counter changeovers en-route. I make no apology for my so called tone. Working on the railway alongside catering colleagues for the last 35yrs I am only referring to the logistics & practically of providing the service. No matter what the customer wants the customer does not always get in the real world. I'm amazed some people can be so demanding.

 

[RT4038]

The problem is that, because of the logistics involved, consistent provision is only possible at a totally uneconomic cost (save for the 'consistency' of not providing any catering at all, which I don't think helps anybody). Hence the whole 'subject to availability' thing.
Bearing in mind that a proportion of the customers want 99% consistency, and the operator in this day and age can only afford (say) 75%, for the revenue the customer is prepared to pay, is therefore a dilemma.

It is pretty obvious that the costs of running on train catering are considerably higher than at a static point, and particularly a shop selling a much wider range of goods. The railway has been running catering services on board trains for over 130 years, and will know every trick in the book that certain staff members will pull to defraud the stock and takings. The very nature of the job means that the level of supervision will not be the same as in a static shop location, and therefore handover (particularly to/from staff that are unknown) is quite different.

 

[Robertj21a]

The problem is that, because of the logistics involved, consistent provision is only possible at a totally uneconomic cost (save for the 'consistency' of not providing any catering at all, which I don't think helps anybody). Hence the whole 'subject to availability' thing.
Bearing in mind that a proportion of the customers want 99% consistency, and the operator in this day and age can only afford (say) 75%, for the revenue the customer is prepared to pay, is therefore a dilemma.

It is pretty obvious that the costs of running on train catering are considerably higher than at a static point, and particularly a shop selling a much wider range of goods. The railway has been running catering services on board trains for over 130 years, and will know every trick in the book that certain staff members will pull to defraud the stock and takings. The very nature of the job means that the level of supervision will not be the same as in a static shop location, and therefore handover (particularly to/from staff that are unknown) is quite different.

All fair points, as are the other comments above. What concerns me is that when you break down the concerns the key issue seems to be that the staff can't be trusted. That surely isn't correct ?
How does the railway think an ordinary shop or cafe works when there's a range of staff using the same tills and selling a range of products ?
Being on a train isn't really the issue that many would like to make it out to be, it's little more than a moving shop when you think about it.
The other poster suggested that it had been investigated many times before. I'm guessing that it wasn't given to an independent body, with a clean sheet of paper to start with.

 

[Sleepy]

Still so many station outlets closed - the footfall some of these companies need to make it worthwhile is still just not there unfortunately.

 

[dk1]

Still so many station outlets closed - the footfall some of these companies need to make it worthwhile is still just not there unfortunately.

And sadly with furlough coming to an end these staff are getting the statutory advance warning required that they no longer have jobs.

 

[Essexman]

Good to see refreshment trolleys back on Paddington - Plymouth train yesterday. And limited First Class trolley. (And ticket checks).

 

[dk1]

Good to see refreshment trolleys back on Paddington - Plymouth train yesterday. And limited First Class trolley. (And ticket checks).

Excellent news on all three.

 

[SussexLad]

Given the ERMAs and future of the railway, what impact will this have on on board catering?

For example, if the costs are covered in the contract the revenue goes to the gocerment so where is the motivation to make it any good?

On the contrary, if the catering is run and funded by the TOCs, the revenue would go to them. So could we see more or less on board catering?