Open line working with Lookouts effectively banned

[Dan17H]

I've searched for other threads and can't find anything recent,

But today we had the news we'd all been expecting that open line working with unassisted lookouts has been banned.

There is a derogation for certain works to be carried out using Site Wardens where appropriate but the document I've seen isn't the clearest and we've sent it back to NWR for further clarification.

It's going to cause a headache for the GZAC planners and projects as the need for line blocks and possessions is going to be far greater now.

What does everyone think?

 

[The Planner]

The red zone ban is an ORR directive, the cyclical possessions are already being increased where possible as well as some section 4s.

 

[Annetts key]

Western banned unassisted lookout protection ( ‘red zone’) working about three years ago (maybe longer). We can still use it for crossing open lines or walking to site. But not working. Although even this is being changed in the future.

Scotland moved away from the majority of unassisted lookout protection even before Western.

The ORR does not tell the railway what to do. But it does require the railway to tell it how they intend to reduce the risk to staff and contractors. It’s Network Rail that decided that the solution is to move towards all work on or near the line taking place in line blocks or T3 possessions.

But line blocks and or T3 work sites each have their own problems, so are not completely safe.

With a T3 worksite, if there are engineering trains, engineering machines, road/rail machines or powered trolleys, it’s still a dangerous place (I’ve seen the results of what happens when a tamper and a regulator collide). And I’ve had my colleague shout at me to get out of the way when a 360 road/rail machine turned and I found a rail hanging in the air inches away from my head.

I have read internal reports into line block irregularities. If the planner, the staff on the track and the signaller don’t get everything correct, the staff on the track can find a train running through the area they thought was blocked to traffic.

Personally, if it was my decision, I would want future signalling systems to be designed so that the system could be used to protect lineside staff. The signalling system is fully capable of protecting trains. Modern communication systems and modern encryption and error correction systems are more than capable of allowing a secure link between a mobile device and the signalling system. So why can’t lineside staff use a mobile system that communicates with the signalling system so that they can arrange proper protection while talking to the signaller?

This would be far more effective, far more flexible, and far safer than any current system (and far better than patrolmans lockout devices).

In terms of the best and most flexible system (in terms of using existing technology) that I have used, that has to be TOWS (train operated warning system). It is part of the signalling system, so the equipment is as safe as it is practically possible to get. Everyone can hear the sounder blip every 30 seconds, so you know the sounders are working. As soon as a train approaches, the sounders then sound continuously. So everyone knows immediately to stand clear. When there are no trains in the area, the sounders stop sounding, and you can go back to work.

But the railway does not want to spend the money required on these systems. Or develop better systems that are less annoying to our neighbours

 

[Aictos]

What is a unassisted lookout on open working compared to a assisted lookout on open working?

I passed my PTS this month but I don't recall being told the differences by the tutor.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Creates more work for signallers, so increases the likelihood of them making mistakes

 

[NSEFAN]

Western banned unassisted lookout protection ( ‘red zone’) working about three years ago (maybe longer). We can still use it for crossing open lines or walking to site. But not working. Although even this is being changed in the future.

Scotland moved away from the majority of unassisted lookout protection even before Western.

The ORR does not tell the railway what to do. But it does require the railway to tell it how they intend to reduce the risk to staff and contractors. It’s Network Rail that decided that the solution is to move towards all work on or near the line taking place in line blocks or T3 possessions.

But line blocks and or T3 work sites each have their own problems, so are not completely safe.

With a T3 worksite, if there are engineering trains, engineering machines, road/rail machines or powered trolleys, it’s still a dangerous place (I’ve seen the results of what happens when a tamper and a regulator collide). And I’ve had my colleague shout at me to get out of the way when a 360 road/rail machine turned and I found a rail hanging in the air inches away from my head.

I have read internal reports into line block irregularities. If the planner, the staff on the track and the signaller don’t get everything correct, the staff on the track can find a train running through the area they thought was blocked to traffic.

Personally, if it was my decision, I would want future signalling systems to be designed so that the system could be used to protect lineside staff. The signalling system is fully capable of protecting trains. Modern communication systems and modern encryption and error correction systems are more than capable of allowing a secure link between a mobile device and the signalling system. So why can’t lineside staff use a mobile system that communicates with the signalling system so that they can arrange proper protection while talking to the signaller?

This would be far more effective, far more flexible, and far safer than any current system (and far better than patrolmans lockout devices).

In terms of the best and most flexible system (in terms of using existing technology) that I have used, that has to be TOWS (train operated warning system). It is part of the signalling system, so the equipment is as safe as it is practically possible to get. Everyone can hear the sounder blip every 30 seconds, so you know the sounders are working. As soon as a train approaches, the sounders then sound continuously. So everyone knows immediately to stand clear. When there are no trains in the area, the sounders stop sounding, and you can go back to work.

But the railway does not want to spend the money required on these systems. Or develop better systems that are less annoying to our neighbours

How about replacing a loudspeaker with a headset for staff operating in the affected area? They may already need ear defenders anyway, so one with wireless headphones built in would be able to give them similar warnings to TOWS. That would at least solve the neighbour annoyance issue.

 

[LAX54]

Creates more work for signallers, so increases the likelihood of them making mistakes

I agree, it has increased the workload immensely on the Signaller, plus the use of contractors who do not always know exactly where they are, they have their safe working pack with all the details laid out, and location etc, does not help if they are not familiar with the area !
Plus the increase in Line Blocks, will in the end delay trains, it will not be always possible to give a green at the SY or DY, doing the paperwork takes time, then of course they have to do 'some' work, then arrange for the block to be given up again.
In some areas, it is not unusual to have staff waiting for hours to get a line block !
also if the Signaller slips up doing the paperwork, even it's minor, then he may well, no, will be taken off duty pending investigation.

 

[Nippy]

Over the last weekend, we had 60+ line blocks at exactly the same location. Fast Lines under T3, Down Slow required Line blocks all weekend between trains. I was not impressed with that planning at all.

 

[Highlandspring]

Western banned unassisted lookout protection ( ‘red zone’) working about three years ago (maybe longer). We can still use it for crossing open lines or walking to site. But not working. Although even this is being changed in the future.

Scotland moved away from the majority of unassisted lookout protection even before Western.

Scotland banned all unassisted lookout working in 2013 after a run of near misses and the fatal accident at Newbridge Jn. It banned assisted (LOWS) lookout working in 2019 after another series of very close near misses.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

The ORR directive was to demonstrate that we’ve used the hierarchy of protection when planning work. It didn’t actually dictate the banning of lookouts and unassisted red zone working. However, Network Rail decided to eliminate red zone working on the back of Margam and other incidents.

We’ve been working 95% green zone for the last three years and this year we’ve eliminated the use of LOWS to get to 100%

This has been achieved by realigning work, having templated line blockages on registers, better use of T3 possessions, Crossing the Line Procedures, trialling drones for inspections, permanent junction lighting, AIVR and PANCAM footage, challenging standards, more efficient planning and many other work streams.

It’s been a culture shock to some.

 

[alxndr]

Western banned unassisted lookout protection ( ‘red zone’) working about three years ago (maybe longer). We can still use it for crossing open lines or walking to site. But not working. Although even this is being changed in the future.

Red zone walking is banned from September in my part. That will really shake things up, I think.

The feeling I get is that these changes are being implemented without the other changes that will make them realistically achievable. Improvement of access points and walking routes, and their associated maintenance regimes, needed to happen before the ban.

In terms of the best and most flexible system (in terms of using existing technology) that I have used, that has to be TOWS (train operated warning system). It is part of the signalling system, so the equipment is as safe as it is practically possible to get. Everyone can hear the sounder blip every 30 seconds, so you know the sounders are working. As soon as a train approaches, the sounders then sound continuously. So everyone knows immediately to stand clear. When there are no trains in the area, the sounders stop sounding, and you can go back to work.

I agree, I'm a massive fan of TOWS as long as its used against the limitations of that particular installation. Yet because its still below line blockages in the hierarchy of control it's use here is very much frowned upon.

 

[Annetts key]

Of all the systems in use, I think LOWS is the least safe. I have absolutely no trust in the LOWS equipment whatsoever. Since an unsafe incident many years ago, no one where I am will use it.

 

[daveo]

TOWS has been explained - but what are -
LOWS
AIVR
PANCAM
SY
DY
and could someone please explain a T3 possession? (the T3 part)

Perhaps an "abbreviations and glossary" section would be useful on here if anyone had the time!

 

[the sniper]

With respect to the forum rules, a subject like this is going to be a hard discussion to have without using lingo, but it's an interesting discussion to follow. I don't know all of the terms used off the top of my head as it isn't my role, but you can check things for yourself.

 

[Shwam3]

TOWS has been explained - but what are -
LOWS
AIVR
PANCAM
SY
DY
and could someone please explain a T3 possession? (the T3 part)

Perhaps an "abbreviations and glossary" section would be useful on here if anyone had the time!

TOWS - Train Operated Warning System.
LOWS - Lookout Operated Warning System.
PANCAM - Pantograph Camera, a camera mounted on a train roof looking towards the pantograph.
T3 - Name of the rule book module for taking a possession of the line for engineering work.

SY & DY - (I assume) Single Yellow & Double Yellow signals.
AIVR - Automated Intelligent Video Review, not heard of this before https://www.aivr.video/.

 

[Annetts key]

TOWS has been explained - but what are -
LOWS
AIVR
PANCAM
SY
DY
and could someone please explain a T3 possession? (the T3 part)

Perhaps an "abbreviations and glossary" section would be useful on here if anyone had the time!

LOWS - Lookout Operated Warning System - equipment to assist the set up of lookout protection when a site lookout cannot see far enough to give adequate warning.
The official definition is “where portable equipment can be deployed and activated by a lookout in order to provide a warning to give sufficient time to allow everyone involved to reach a position of safety at least ten seconds before any train arrives at the site of work”.
The advance lookout has the hand held unit (“transmitter equipment”) and the site lookout has the “receiver” equipment. It uses a type of radio link signalling.

I need context about SY and DY, but they are most likely referring to Single Yellow aspect, and Double Yellow aspect, both in a four aspect signal head.

A T3 possession is when an engineering person (actually called a PICOP - Person In Charge Of Possession) takes control of the line. The T3 bit is the section of the railway rule book that describes the procedure.

 

[daveo]

Thank you both. Helps a poor layman to understand this thread

 

[greatkingrat]

Does this ban take into account the type of line being worked on? It seems there is a big difference between working on an open 30mph line and working on an open 100mph line.

 

[Annetts key]

Does this ban take into account the type of line being worked on? It seems there is a big difference between working on an open 30mph line and working on an open 100mph line.

Nope. We have to even take a line block if the line speed is only 20MPH.

Perhaps an "abbreviations and glossary" section would be useful on here if anyone had the time!

Try this one glossary

 

[a340egkk]

Western banned unassisted lookout protection ( ‘red zone’) working about three years ago (maybe longer). We can still use it for crossing open lines or walking to site. But not working. Although even this is being changed in the future.

Scotland moved away from the majority of unassisted lookout protection even before Western.

The ORR does not tell the railway what to do. But it does require the railway to tell it how they intend to reduce the risk to staff and contractors. It’s Network Rail that decided that the solution is to move towards all work on or near the line taking place in line blocks or T3 possessions.

But line blocks and or T3 work sites each have their own problems, so are not completely safe.

With a T3 worksite, if there are engineering trains, engineering machines, road/rail machines or powered trolleys, it’s still a dangerous place (I’ve seen the results of what happens when a tamper and a regulator collide). And I’ve had my colleague shout at me to get out of the way when a 360 road/rail machine turned and I found a rail hanging in the air inches away from my head.

I have read internal reports into line block irregularities. If the planner, the staff on the track and the signaller don’t get everything correct, the staff on the track can find a train running through the area they thought was blocked to traffic.

Personally, if it was my decision, I would want future signalling systems to be designed so that the system could be used to protect lineside staff. The signalling system is fully capable of protecting trains. Modern communication systems and modern encryption and error correction systems are more than capable of allowing a secure link between a mobile device and the signalling system. So why can’t lineside staff use a mobile system that communicates with the signalling system so that they can arrange proper protection while talking to the signaller?

This would be far more effective, far more flexible, and far safer than any current system (and far better than patrolmans lockout devices).

In terms of the best and most flexible system (in terms of using existing technology) that I have used, that has to be TOWS (train operated warning system). It is part of the signalling system, so the equipment is as safe as it is practically possible to get. Everyone can hear the sounder blip every 30 seconds, so you know the sounders are working. As soon as a train approaches, the sounders then sound continuously. So everyone knows immediately to stand clear. When there are no trains in the area, the sounders stop sounding, and you can go back to work.

But the railway does not want to spend the money required on these systems. Or develop better systems that are less annoying to our neighbours

There are TCODs (track circuit operating devices) called ZKLs being installed across the Southern at least, which are cloud based control - this seems to be exactly what you are describing that you would like to see!

They can therefore remotely drop track circuits and prevent trains from being signalled through line blockages.

However, like everything, how effective they are remains to be seen, and their cost vs return on investment.

They have already caused track circuits to drop, which was a key feature of what they were not supposed to do.

 

[alxndr]

There are TCODs (track circuit operating devices) called ZKLs being installed across the Southern at least, which are cloud based control - this seems to be exactly what you are describing that you would like to see!

They can therefore remotely drop track circuits and prevent trains from being signalled through line blockages.

However, like everything, how effective they are remains to be seen, and their cost vs return on investment.

They have already caused track circuits to drop, which was a key feature of what they were not supposed to do.

They're also being installed on some parts of the Western, and presumably also elsewhere as well. They are, however, only any good if you have track circuits. I've never seen one because where I work is almost entirely axle countered.

I like the theory of it, it needs both the people on the ground and the signaller to collaborate, much as the more traditional methods of additional protection. That's two separate people who have to make a mistake for things to go wrong. I might be being a dinosaur, but I'm not so keen on relying on mobile apps for safety.

 

[Annetts key]

There are TCODs (track circuit operating devices) called ZKLs being installed across the Southern at least, which are cloud based control - this seems to be exactly what you are describing that you would like to see!

They can therefore remotely drop track circuits and prevent trains from being signalled through line blockages.

However, like everything, how effective they are remains to be seen, and their cost vs return on investment.

They have already caused track circuits to drop, which was a key feature of what they were not supposed to do.

Unfortunately “bolt-on” technology like this often does not live up to expectations in terms of reliability.

In the area where I am, the company gave up with normal TCODs due to various reasons. One of which was they are more difficult to use in practice. Have you tried getting a good electrical connection on rusty steel? They clamp on the non-running part of the rail. Hence this part is always rusty. And that’s S&T trying to use them. When less technical staff tried using them, it was not unknown for the track circuit to go clear some time after they were fitted. The job then had to be stopped and the S&T then had to investigate to find out what had happened.

And the disadvantage of using track circuits, either disconnections by trained and qualified S&T staff (in the normal way), by using normal TCODs or by using the type you describe is that (a) it’s a crude control that can cause other problems at junctions such as locking routes or points on the unaffected line(s), (b) it does not help if there is permissive working, and (c) if the track circuit is already showing occupied, the signaller may not be able to tell if a train has passed the protecting signal and has gone on to the already occupied track circuit.

Obviously they are of no use in non-track circuited areas.

Now, I have not actually seen one, so I can’t comment on the actual devices themselves. So I reserve judgement.

 

[Ploughman]

Will there be any change in the rules affecting Heritage lines?

 

[Annetts key]

Will there be any change in the rules affecting Heritage lines?

As far as I know, the improvement orders that the ORR issued only apply to Network Rail. And as I said earlier, it’s Network Rail that has decided on this course of action (safeguarded working rather than unassisted lookouts).

How do Heritage lines protect their staff that are track side?

 

[ABB125]

Will this have any effect on activities such as (if I recall correctly from one of Channel 5's Paddington Station 24/7 episodes) retrieving a dead cat (I may be mis-remebering, it might have been something else) from the track in between trains?

 

[Annetts key]

Will this have any effect on activities such as (if I recall correctly from one of Channel 5's Paddington Station 24/7 episodes) retrieving a dead cat (I may be mis-remebering, it might have been something else) from the track in between trains?

The staff that do that kind of activity are already required to get permission from the signaller to go on the line. They must wait until they are given an assurance from the signaller that the required lines are blocked.

 

[Class 170101]

This has been achieved by realigning work, having templated line blockages on registers, better use of T3 possessions, Crossing the Line Procedures, trialling drones for inspections, permanent junction lighting, AIVR and PANCAM footage, challenging standards, more efficient planning and many other work streams.

It’s been a culture shock to some.

Going to be a lot of work going forward for the Operators as well spotting extra opportunities for access that Section 4 would not ordinarily spot and cover.

Its certainly a culture shock from what I have seen how much access in one area is created by a disruptive possession elsewhere and is not spotted and thus wasted.

 

[mr_moo]

What is a unassisted lookout on open working compared to a assisted lookout on open working?

I passed my PTS this month but I don't recall being told the differences by the tutor.

Unassisted = Just flags.
Assisted = Has some additional system or equipment, usually LOWS or TOWS.

 

[Deepgreen]

What is a unassisted lookout on open working compared to a assisted lookout on open working?

I passed my PTS this month but I don't recall being told the differences by the tutor.

The latter has an assistant/second person?

 

[Highlandspring]

The latter has an assistant/second person?

If you don’t actually know perhaps it’s best not to answer. The correct answer has been given by mr_moo in the post directly above yours.