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Open line working with Lookouts effectively banned

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Annetts key

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What is a unassisted lookout on open working compared to a assisted lookout on open working?

I passed my PTS this month but I don't recall being told the differences by the tutor.

Unassisted = Just flags.
Assisted = Has some additional system or equipment, usually LOWS or TOWS.

The latter has an assistant/second person?
Unassisted - means only people, no additional equipment over and above a whistle or horn. Or flags if an advance lookout has been appointed by the COSS.
So a site lookout working on their own. Or a site lookout working with one or more additional/advance or touch lookouts. All are examples of unassisted lookout systems.

An answer for assisted has already been given.

A COSS should set up the safest system that is practical.
The rule book says:
The following are the safe systems of work available.
Safeguarded - where every line at the site of work has been blocked to normal train movements.
Fenced - where there is a suitable barrier between the site of work and any line open to the normal movement of trains.
Separated - where there is a distance of at least 2 metres (6 feet 6 inches) between the nearest running rail of an open line and the site of work, and a site warden has been appointed.

There must be an identifiable limit to the site of work.

If it is only you and one other person in the group, you do not need to appoint a site warden. However, you must make sure neither of you go any closer than 2 metres (6 feet 6 inches) to the nearest running rail of the open line.

Equipment warning - where there is equipment provided to give enough warning to allow everyone involved to reach a position of safety before any train arrives at the site of work.

Lookout warning - where one or more lookouts are positioned to provide enough warning to allow everyone involved to reach a position of safety before any train arrives at the site of work.

Lookout warning can only be used if:
• There is no realistic alternative safe system of work that can be used.
• Using lookouts at that location is not prohibited.
 
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Aictos

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Thank you @Annetts key and @mr_moo, so does the ban include those radio things that some lookouts carry on themselves that emits a warning alarm when a train approaches, it's a small yellow box with two aerials I think?
 

Dan17H

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Thank you @Annetts key and @mr_moo, so does the ban include those radio things that some lookouts carry on themselves that emits a warning alarm when a train approaches, it's a small yellow box with two aerials I think?
No, that counts as an Assisted system. Although? They're not common to see as they are only approved for use by a select few companies.
 

mr_moo

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Thank you @Annetts key and @mr_moo, so does the ban include those radio things that some lookouts carry on themselves that emits a warning alarm when a train approaches, it's a small yellow box with two aerials I think?
I assume you mean something like this?


There's still a site 'lookout' or 'controller' who is not looking for trains any more but simply ensuring that people respond to the system's warnings and making sure the system is working ok. It's still classed as an assisted lookout warning system.
 

Aictos

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Falcon1200

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Scotland banned all unassisted lookout working in 2013 after a run of near misses and the fatal accident at Newbridge Jn.

The Newbridge accident was a tragic event, but I did wonder afterwards why the work (IIRC surveying) had to be carried out on a weekday during a full train service period, rather than at a quieter time.
 

HSTEd

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In the area where I am, the company gave up with normal TCODs due to various reasons. One of which was they are more difficult to use in practice. Have you tried getting a good electrical connection on rusty steel? They clamp on the non-running part of the rail. Hence this part is always rusty. And that’s S&T trying to use them. When less technical staff tried using them, it was not unknown for the track circuit to go clear some time after they were fitted. The job then had to be stopped and the S&T then had to investigate to find out what had happened.

In areas that are commonly taken for possesion couldn't you just have a box on the lineside with a switch inside that shorted the track circuit out using proper connections that are permanently made to the rail?

Although I suppose you'd then have annoying tresspassers flipping them for a laugh......


Really short of redesigning the entire infrastructure to minimise the necessity of workers to be trackside, not much can be done.

Designing new lines/modified infrastructure to minimise the trackside maintenance burden seems to be the obvious move
 

Highlandspring

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In areas that are commonly taken for possesion couldn't you just have a box on the lineside with a switch inside that shorted the track circuit out using proper connections that are permanently made to the rail?
What you have just described effectively already exists in most modern signalling schemes, in the form of lockouts. For some reason NR has never really got to grips with them and mandated their use. They exist in many areas and are barely, if ever, used.
 

Annetts key

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In areas that are commonly taken for possesion couldn't you just have a box on the lineside with a switch inside that shorted the track circuit out using proper connections that are permanently made to the rail?
There are far better ways than shorting out the track circuit. But it all takes money, as any alterations require proper design, installation and proper safety and functional testing.

Although I suppose you'd then have annoying tresspassers flipping them for a laugh......
The existing patrol lockout devices are protected with suitable locks. I see no reason why any other permanent protection system would be any different. As long as the locks are good enough to deter trespassers and other unauthorised people, I don’t see a problem.

NB only certain staff have keys to the lockout devices and not all provide full protection.

Right now, with the current computerised interlocking (signal control) systems, it’s possible to apply restrictions using the facilities available to the relevant S&T staff. But it’s rather technical. Hence can only be done by the S&T staff. And it can only be done at wherever the interlocking system is located.

What I would like to see is a rather simpler, more user friendly and straightforward system, that does not require a great deal to training to use. So that means a graphical diagram showing the layout of the area concerned. And which offers positive conformation of what’s blocked/protected. And which can be operated by staff on the lineside near the site of work. Obviously the staff would have to get permission from the controlling signaller.

Really short of redesigning the entire infrastructure to minimise the necessity of workers to be trackside, not much can be done.

Designing new lines/modified infrastructure to minimise the trackside maintenance burden seems to be the obvious move
And there is the problem. In recent designs, for example the four tracking between Bristol Temple Meads and Filton Abbey Wood, there was absolutely no provision whatsoever for staff safety. Not even a cess pathway.

Even without changes to the system design principles, lineside equipment should and could be better positioned. Rather than put in an awkward to get to spot.

For example, axle counter equipment is often positioned in places which mean staff have to take a line block of two lines (the line the axle counter applies to plus the adjacent line) because of where they installed the lineside equipment “electronic junction box”.

With clamp lock points, sometimes the power pack is put in a silly place, again resulting in more lines needing to be blocked just to manually operate the points.

In some cases, the new equipment is worse than the 1970s equipment they ripped out.

And it does cause more train delay when faults happen.

Sorry, this is turning into a an off topic rant, so I’ll stop now.
 

Llanigraham

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Wales & Border banned "red zone working" when I was still working and I can remember on one occasion we had to get special dispensation when some emergency work had to be done at our level crossing. It was allowed because, being a manually controlled crossing which was directly outside the Box, we couldn't clear the signals until the barriers were down, and we wouldn't drop them until all the workers were clear of the line.
 
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