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Overcrowding on North Wales Coast When The Sun Shines This Summer

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Welshman

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With Avanti dropping their service right down and so having spare Voyagers, could TfW get them to run the shuttles as 10 car? That would help a lot and the units are not being used for anything else.
Some Avanti shuttles were 10 cars yesterday]24th July] - see my post #194 above.
Also 3 were today [25th July]-

Not additional shuttles Crewe-Holyhead, but a strengthening of those already timetabled.
 
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6Gman

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I take your points and where staff have lost all their knowledge (in the official sense), this is certainly difficult.


To cover Borderlands and try to get some trains out for capacity, why not just have 1 train and schedule it up in such a way that it's the same staff who do it regularly and then as more people gain the relevant knowledge. That is how many other industries with such standards would deal with it. Not train up 2 locations worth of guards and drivers. Given the significantly wider benefits, having slightly more restricted staff on the borderlands frees up trains on the much longer routes which need the capacity as a matter of urgency. Since training is slow, once the borderlands lot are sorted, focus everyone else on everything else and then in time when things get easier, train the borderlands lot on the other routes and vice versa. Targetted training is what is needed. You'll never get anything sorted if you are training people at the current speed because not only that, you then have the knowledge retention. No good training two locations worth of staff on the trains as then by the time they are done, the first drivers will be out of knowledge and you'll have to do it again. These D Trains will be rotted by the time they see passenger service.
Depends on the size of the depot and the daily commitment to that particular stock/ route. Can't speak for the depots involved (it's now a long time since I was Depot Editor for Shrewsbury :D ) but larger depots will have "links" rather than everyone signing everywhere. At Nottingham, for example, we had drivers who signed Skegness but not Matlock and vice versa. But having just a handful of crew signing particular stock/ routes does leave you running a risk of your select band being on leave/ sick at the same time. It can also give rise to issues of rotating through booking on times, rest days etc.

So it really isn't as simple as training up the basic minimum for each route.

You're not going far, you don't need a toilet. Average journey of under 30 minutes does not need a toilet. Even Merseytravel has grasped that. I'm not suggesting on the Heart of Wales line or the marshes. to put trains on with no toilets, it's Chester to Crewe and Halton Curve. Low passengers anyway, toilets at each end. IF you can't hold it in for 30 minutes, use the Avanti. Crikey. It's not that long.
Are there any PRM 153s without toilets?

Genuine question; not really kept up to date with the detail.
 
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berneyarms

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Are there any PRM 153s without toilets?

Genuine question; not really kept up to date with the detail.
There are three Class 153s so far which have had "PRM lite" refurbishments. In other words, all the PRM modifications except for the toilet. The toilet has been locked out of use on these units and they can only work attached to a PRM unit as I understand it.

There are two currently in the works at Landore being refurbished.
There are eight other unrefurbished units, and I'm unsure as to what will happen with those.

There are thirteen fully PRM refurbished units.
 

Bikeman78

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Feel free to contact the DfT and argue that case on TfWs behalf, because its a decision out if TfWs hands. There must be a PRM accessible toilet on every service, regardless of distance.
Scotrail get away with it. Every class 318 I travelled on last week had the toilet locked out of use.
 

krus_aragon

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There must be a PRM accessible toilet on every service, regardless of distance.

Scotrail get away with it. Every class 318 I travelled on last week had the toilet locked out of use.
That's because the actual requirement is: if a toilet is provided, there must be a PRM accessible toilet on the service.

Virtually all rolling stock used in North Wales had already had PRM toilets fitted before the start of the current franchise, of course.
 

47827

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Interestingly there is still enough warm stored serviceable ex Arriva mk3 stock that could be leased back for the old Manchester turn, which would release units and itself aid the issues we are currently seeing. ROG (rail operations group) would almost certainly assist with a re-lease deal.

BUT....
there's a big enough list of reasons why it won't happen. The main one probably isn't getting dispensation to use it. I imagine given extenuating circumstances surrounding overcrowding that the appropriate parties would do it were all the other issues outlined on the last few pages not a problem along with others such as the main show stopped being the fact many previously trained Coast/Crewe/Shrewsbury staff previously utilised on various parts haven't worked Mk3s in 17-18 months and you couldn't refresh enough in time even without all the current obstacles. If covid wasn't depleting workforces then ROG and DBC between them could probably try to supply guards and DB the drivers to shadow TFW staff with lapsed competency but even taking cost out it's not realistic with the list of obstacles thrown in. 10-15 years ago these things could be overcome more easily but no chance now. Strengthening trains that are running (Avanti being the only great option) is all that can be done. RE stops on Avanti, Flint is no good for load 10, I don't think having called there on many a long set in the past.
 

Welshman

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Interestingly there is still enough warm stored serviceable ex Arriva mk3 stock that could be leased back for the old Manchester turn, which would release units and itself aid the issues we are currently seeing. ROG (rail operations group) would almost certainly assist with a re-lease deal.

BUT....
there's a big enough list of reasons why it won't happen. The main one probably isn't getting dispensation to use it. I imagine given extenuating circumstances surrounding overcrowding that the appropriate parties would do it were all the other issues outlined on the last few pages not a problem along with others such as the main show stopped being the fact many previously trained Coast/Crewe/Shrewsbury staff previously utilised on various parts haven't worked Mk3s in 17-18 months and you couldn't refresh enough in time even without all the current obstacles. If covid wasn't depleting workforces then ROG and DBC between them could probably try to supply guards and DB the drivers to shadow TFW staff with lapsed competency but even taking cost out it's not realistic with the list of obstacles thrown in. 10-15 years ago these things could be overcome more easily but no chance now. Strengthening trains that are running (Avanti being the only great option) is all that can be done. RE stops on Avanti, Flint is no good for load 10, I don't think having called there on many a long set in the past.
Interestingly, RTT shows down double voyagers calling at Fflint last Saturday:


However, the 0855 up from Holyhead, which usually calls at Fflint, omitted the call. Is the down platform longer than the up?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Running a franchise is not easy and TFW have made a few errors but there's a big ATW/DFT legacy from running a 15 years non growth franchise that drains away any profit away to their German owners ! Imagine if the profits had been reinvested into the franchise and new rolling stock.
The DB profits from ATW mostly went to fund the losses at XC and Chiltern...

The Avanti services with double Voyagers mostly omit Flint, but the 0551 Holyhead-Euston (1R24) does call.
Platform lengths at Flint are different: Up 178m, Down 209m.
There are stop markers for 10-car trains.
 
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Kite159

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Interestingly, RTT shows down double voyagers calling at Fflint last Saturday:


However, the 0855 up from Holyhead, which usually calls at Fflint, omitted the call. Is the down platform longer than the up?

They will lock out the rear 3 coaches if it calls at Flint heading towards Holyhead due to the lack of SDO?
 

87007

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Potential issue on TFW 1726 from Chester to Holyhead on 30th September with on-board announcements in rear coach barely audible and train split at Llandudno Junction. Luckily had been chatting with a local and they mentioned moving forward to front coaches.

"Herself" has a hearing impairment so would have still been sat at back of the train and missed the ferry at Holyhead, have let TFW know and will see what comes back.

Wondered if this is a recurring issue?
 

wobman

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Potential issue on TFW 1726 from Chester to Holyhead on 30th September with on-board announcements in rear coach barely audible and train split at Llandudno Junction. Luckily had been chatting with a local and they mentioned moving forward to front coaches.

"Herself" has a hearing impairment so would have still been sat at back of the train and missed the ferry at Holyhead, have let TFW know and will see what comes back.

Wondered if this is a recurring issue?
Your best getting this on twitter the social media team will answer your tweet, this service is advertised on the information screens on the platforms as splitting at Llandudno junction.

If you inform them were you boarded they can also check if it's announced at your boarding station and on the information screens there aswell.
 

Parallel

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Your best getting this on twitter the social media team will answer your tweet, this service is advertised on the information screens on the platforms as splitting at Llandudno junction.

If you inform them were you boarded they can also check if it's announced at your boarding station and on the information screens there aswell.
TfW's station CIS system cannot audiably announce splits where the train is going to detach carriages en-route, only if the train is splitting and then going to two separate destinations i.e. Aberystwyth and Pwllheli - so in this situation at Chester, the train would just be announced as going to Holyhead. It should be displayed on station CIS screens as 'Holyhead & Llandudno Junction' though if carriages are due to detach there.
 

Bletchleyite

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TfW's station CIS system cannot audiably announce splits where the train is going to detach carriages en-route, only if the train is splitting and then going to two separate destinations i.e. Aberystwyth and Pwllheli - so in this situation at Chester, the train would just be announced as going to Holyhead. It should be displayed on station CIS screens though.

ATOS Annie can ("the rear 4 carriages will detach and terminate at Northampton"), so maybe time for an upgrade? I've never found TfW's PIS to deal with portion working adequately, which is not really OK because they have so much of it.
 
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