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Overhead wire gaps on NS.

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slammerTel

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I've just recently seen a clip on YouTube of some NS electric trains passing over a river/canal bridge near Akkrum. The overhead wires stop either side of the bridge... but the trains continue over the gap with their pantographs still raised . It's quite an amazing sight to see. I'm led to believe that it happens at two other locations too.
 
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hexagon789

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I've just recently seen a clip on YouTube of some NS electric trains passing over a river/canal bridge near Akkrum. The overhead wires stop either side of the bridge... but the trains continue over the gap with their pantographs still raised . It's quite an amazing sight to see. I'm led to believe that it happens at two other locations too.
Yes, they just coast over. Much easier than trying to figure out a means to run the OLE over the bridge while still allowing clearance for boats.
 

biko

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This is indeed quite common in the Netherlands. I don’t know all locations by head but I found online that the bridge in Arnemuiden (Zeeland) is a swinging bridge without overhead wires, just like the Vlakebrug further along the same railway line. A bit north from Akkrum the bridge near Grouw is very similar to the one in Akkrum. In North Holland a drawbridge near Purmerend (Wherebrug) also has discontinuous overhead lines, and I expect some more in that corner of the country although I don’t know exactly where they are as I have never travelled to that area.

Maybe of interest to you is the ProRail network map. I don’t have time now to look it up but it shows among many other things which bridges are movable. Note that not all moveable bridges use this system. Some have a short overhead line on the moveable part.
 

MisterT

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As previous members said: this is quite common here in the Netherlands. These kind of constructions can be found all around the country. For example just the line between Zwolle and Leeuwarden has four of those bridges without overhead wires, or the section Zaandam to Purmerend has three of them. There are also a few between Roosendaal and Vlissingen, between Leiden and Schiphol Airport, Leiden and Utrecht Centraal and Alkmaar and Den Helder.
Another well known line was the line between Hoek van Holland and Rotterdam, but with its conversion from train to metro line, I believe that the non-wired bridges are now all fully wired.

A bit depending on the train type, but all trains can simply coast over the 'wireless' sections, but on our newer trains (our SLT and SNG train types) the main circuit breaker might open in some cases, which takes a bit of time to close and start all systems again. We try to avoid that by using the ED-brakes to generate just enough power to prevent the MCB from opening, but on low speeds, that's obviously not really possible. Even though it is not necessary on other trains, we do it with basically all trains that support ED-braking to prevent systems that rely on the high voltage from temporarily shutting down.

Most gaps are very easy to pass because they are taken at line speed, but there are a few places that are a bit more tricky. The one mentioned earlier, at Akkrum, is just behind the station, so it is necessary to accelerate quite quickly there. Another one is at Alkmaar, which has two level crossings on each side on the bridge. Combined with the very low maximum speed of 40 km/h at that point, this place is a quite the challenge when people are stupid enough to crawl under the lowered level crossing barriers. The train might stop at just the wrong point, with the pantographs just inside the gap section. There is a quite famous picture on the internet where some people are pushing a double deck train back under the wires at that place.
 
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DanielB

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The pictures from Alkmaar are here: dumpert.nl - Vertraging? And when looking for them I've also found similar pictures from Akkrum.

And yes, it does go wrong sometimes... can't find the pictures, but during a test run with a brand new electric GTW destined for the MerwedeLingelijn they found out the hard way that the device limiting how high the pantograph may lift was not yet installed. So that train ended without pantograph a few meters past the bridge.
Foreign trains usually also don't have such a limitation, that's also why for example the bridges between Leiden and Schiphol Airport have signs indicating that foreign trains have to lower their pantographs.
 

biko

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Another well known line was the line between Hoek van Holland and Rotterdam, but with its conversion from train to metro line, I believe that the non-wired bridges are now all fully wired.
A look on Street View suggests you're right, both bridges on the route now have wires, while at photos pre-conversion they did not.
 

Beebman

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Something similar happens near Roosendaal and Maastricht where the electrification changes between the Dutch 1500V and the Belgian 3000V systems - in both cases there's a gap in the overhead wires and electric trains coast underneath.
 

MotCO

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Presumably OHLE at the exit and entry to the wireless sections must be at a high level since I assume the pantographs rise up after leaving the wires, and need to be 'corralled' back onto the wires.
 

MisterT

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Yes, they are. The pantographs are physically limited to a maximum height, and the overhead wires are raised above that, so the collector heads are 'guided' as it were to the maximum height and back to normal at the other side.
 

slammerTel

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Presumably OHLE at the exit and entry to the wireless sections must be at a high level since I assume the pantographs rise up after leaving the wires, and need to be 'corralled' back onto the wires.
It looks like the OHLE is tapered upwards at the ends. I'm guessing the pantographs are at full height as they approach the gap

Yes, they are. The pantographs are physically limited to a maximum height, and the overhead wires are raised above that, so the collector heads are 'guided' as it were to the maximum height and back to normal at the other side.
Thanks. That answers my question MisterT :D:D:D
 

MarcVD

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Yes all pantographs that are used on the Dutch network must have a device that limits their extension. Belgian locs that were allowed in the Netherlands had to have such a device mounted. CC40100 had it too, even if it was never used. Thalys PBA and PBKA sets too.

There is this story of a belgian EMU being hauled on the NS network for testing... Not under its own power but people on bord the EMU raised the pantograph to get the warming system up... encounter with the next catenary gap resulted in total wire chaos...
 

STEVIEBOY1

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They do that in the UK too in Kent on the Kings Ferry Bridge, linking the Isle of Sheppey with England. (The centre part of the bridge can be raised to let shipping go underneath, not sure how often that happens now?)
 

jopsuk

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They do that in the UK too in Kent on the Kings Ferry Bridge, linking the Isle of Sheppey with England. (The centre part of the bridge can be raised to let shipping go underneath, not sure how often that happens now?)
hah, no they don't, at least not the same way! Sheppey is 3rd rail territory. Gaps in 3rd rail are much ore common, that's just a slightly longer one. Unlike with the Netherlands, no special modifications are needed to the pickups.
 

MisterT

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Belgian locs that were allowed in the Netherlands had to have such a device mounted.
Not exactly. Some were and are allowed without the limiter. Like DanielB said, for those trains, special signs were created to instruct the drivers of those trains to lower the pantographs.
 

Aictos

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Could this be adapted in the UK for places that would serve electric trains but for various reasons will have OHL gaps?
 

HSTEd

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So dutch pantographs aren't fitted with automatic droppers?
 

MisterT

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It's not common on older trains at 1,5 kV, but newer trains (+/- from 2005) do have an auto drop function when the collector head of the pantograph is damaged, but there isn't a 'no voltage'-auto drop, if that is what you meant (I'm sorry, I don't know the right railway terminology).
The only exception being our Bombardier Traxx MS locomotives. On those, there is an auto drop after xx seconds of no voltage being detected at 25 kV since the latest software update (and of course an auto drop when the wrong voltage is selected/wrong pantograph raised), but again, that's an exception.
 

HSTEd

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It's not common on older trains at 1,5 kV, but newer trains (+/- from 2005) do have an auto drop function when the collector head of the pantograph is damaged, but there isn't a 'no voltage'-auto drop, if that is what you meant (I'm sorry, I don't know the right railway terminology).
The only exception being our Bombardier Traxx MS locomotives. On those, there is an auto drop after xx seconds of no voltage being detected at 25 kV since the latest software update (and of course an auto drop when the wrong voltage is selected/wrong pantograph raised), but again, that's an exception.
My understanding is that in the UK, pantographs have an auto dropping device that causes them to lower if they go too high.
 

MarcVD

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Not exactly. Some were and are allowed without the limiter. Like DanielB said, for those trains, special signs were created to instruct the drivers of those trains to lower the pantographs.
Would be interested to know which ones... I'm aware of those allowed only to Rosendaal or Maastricht, but what else ?
 

DanielB

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The special signs "Lower pantograph" with a "B" (stands for "Buitenlands", "foreign" in English) are for example found between Leiden and Schiphol, not at the border stations.
As far as I know the HLE11.8, so the former Belgian loco's for the Benelux trains, had to drop their pantograph when passing these bridges. Probably Thalys and Eurostar as well when diverted via the classic line, Thalys of course has actually ran via Leiden before the HSL Zuid was completed.
Additionally also Belgian Traxx loco's are used for cargo trains in The Netherlands, but I'm not sure if these have a limiting device. They might not really need it as I'm not aware of any bridges without overhead wires on cargo routes these loco's operate on. (They'll definitely pass the Markbrug near Zevenbergen, but that's a swingbridge with fixed overhead wires).
 
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MisterT

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The Traxx locomotives do have a limiter, but it is based on air pressure instead of a true physical object that prevents the pantograph from rising too high. As such, we are not allowed to rely upon it (even though in most cases it will probably work correctly), so that's the most current locomotive that has to follow those signs.
In the future there might be the ICNG-B, the new intercity train for Belgium. It might change (and probably will), but at the moment those trains are not equipped with a limiter and they will have to lower the pantographs as well.
 
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