Permitted routes when using a free TOC pass

[roversfan2001]

Quite a simple question really: does the routeing guide apply when using a complimentary TOC pass? For example Newcastle-York on a Northern only pass, the shortest route only on Northern involves going via Barrow, which obviously isn't normally permitted.

I've got one which I'm using tomorrow for Leyland to Nottingham, but if I can get out early enough I'm thinking of killing some time by going to Manchester early and going (Leyland-)Man Picc-Man Airport-Wilmslow-Stockport-Man Picc(-Nottingham); would a guard care if I was to do that?

 

[221129]

What does the pass say?

 

[55z]

If it is a NORTHERN PASS then why ask about non Northern routes. There are no Northern services Darlington to York and permissable routes do not apply, The pass being only available on NORTHERN trains no other TOC unless there is disruption and the other TOC accepts Northern tickets.

 

[yorkie]

There is no concept of the Routeing Guide here.

I'd say it's fair game to do any reasonable journey on Northern only.

You can use http://www.fastjp.com/#home for this purpose; go into "Transport Operators" and tick "Only use selected operators" and then "Northern".

For some obscure journeys, you may need to specify a via station (e.g. if I wanted to do York to Darlington on Northern only, I'd need to specify via Carlisle)

 

[AnkleBoots]

How do you get these passes? Why can't you travel via Settle rather than Barrow?

 

[roversfan2001]

What does the pass say?

I've found this picture off Google, mine's the same but is a return not a single.

How do you get these passes? Why can't you travel via Settle rather than Barrow?

I got my passes as a gesture of goodwill after they lost my Delay Repay claim.

I forgot about the S&C, yes that would be shorter than via Barrow.

 

[Starmill]

If it is a NORTHERN PASS then why ask about non Northern routes. There are no Northern services Darlington to York and permissable routes do not apply, The pass being only available on NORTHERN trains no other TOC unless there is disruption and the other TOC accepts Northern tickets.

What do you mean? Northern serve York and Darlington. Also it's inadvisable to use all caps in most on forum situations as it's more difficult to read and can be perceived as shouting.

I forgot about the S&C, yes that would be shorter than via Barrow.

Does the shortest route form part of the conditions of the ticket?

 

[roversfan2001]

Does the shortest route form part of the conditions of the ticket?

One of the conditions on the back is that it is issued subject to the NRCoT.

 

[yorkie]

There is no way that can apply to routeing in this case.

 

[roversfan2001]

Is there any real difference between a 'return' and an 'all day' ticket then for distances such as Leyland to Nottingham, where you could be anywhere south of Lancaster and be on a 'reasonable' route as long as it's not a branch on the Northern network (like Crewe/Stoke/Scarborough etc)?

 

[Starmill]

I believe you have answered how they are different

For what it's worth I would argue that via Stoke-on-Trent is an entirely reasonable route for Leyland to Nottingham. You will need to pay for travel from Stoke-on-Trent to Derby or somewhere else, but it's still entirely reasonable.

 

[robbeech]

When I first got a couple of these I asked this question on Twitter and was told the routing guide does apply.

 

[yorkie]

When I first got a couple of these I asked this question on Twitter and was told the routing guide does apply.

They say all sorts of nonsense on Twitter though

They even claim you can't break your journey on these tickets (a clear breach of the NRCoT)

They do not appear to be knowledgeable on fares matters; they sometimes invent rules that do not exist. This is quite normal for several TOCs Twitter teams though.

 

[Starmill]

The letter I got with mine says that I can fill in any journey between two Northern stations. They included a map for me so that I would know which stations can be used. York and Darlington were (obviously) on the map. Now, the NRCoT says that the routes we can take are determined by:
1. Through trains - there are no Northern trains from York to Darlington so ignore
2. The shortest route - Northern trains do not traverse the shortest route, so again, ignore
3. Routes shown in the Routing Guide - Northern trains do not traverse any of these mapped routes so this cannot apply

Therefore the only possible remaining interpretation is that you can use any reasonable route on Northern services only. Otherwise these tickets have no value and should not be issued. They are issued in lieu of a contractual payment, so I would argue strongly that issuing a ticket which is not valid to travel is not meeting the terms of that payment.

 

[roversfan2001]

I didn't receive a map with mine - if I ever get one again I'll ask them if they could send one, sounds like quite a useful thing to have. I can't see me having any serious problems on any service.

 

[BlueFox]

How do you get these passes?

When you make a delay claim with Northern you can choose these instead of a cheque or vouchers.
30-59 minute delay is a single journey, 60-119 is a return, 120+ is two returns.

 

[BlueFox]

I didn't receive a map with mine - if I ever get one again I'll ask them if they could send one, sounds like quite a useful thing to have.

There's a Northern network map on their website - https://be803fe5c416e39d38ae-aa2108.../maps/2017-12/Network-map-DR-update-24317.pdf

 

[185143]

When you make a delay claim with Northern you can choose these instead of a cheque or vouchers.
30-59 minute delay is a single journey, 60-119 is a return, 120+ is two returns.

60-119 minutes is 2 singles-not a return...

Yes I have been pedantic enough to point this out to Northern and they've only sent me 2x single tickets since.

I'm NOT just being pedantic though! The last 2 I had were used from Birchwood to Nottingham (single) and Harrogate to Newton-le-Willows (single). Couldn't do that had they sent a 'return' voucher...

 

[roversfan2001]

60-119 minutes is 2 singles-not a return...

Yes I have been pedantic enough to point this out to Northern and they've only sent me 2x single tickets since.

I'm NOT just being pedantic though! The last 2 I had were used from Birchwood to Nottingham (single) and Harrogate to Newton-le-Willows (single). Couldn't do that had they sent a 'return' voucher...

Liverpool-Scunthorpe could have worked (obviously Nottingham-Grantham-Doncaster isn't possible on Northern but...)

 

[BlueFox]

60-119 minutes is 2 singles-not a return...

You're right, I've just looked it up on their website. I thought it was a return because that's what they've sent me in the past - twice.

 

[gray1404]

I notice there is a security measure now included on the vouchers by the signature. I have sever of these though and none of them have this feature.

 

[Starmill]

I notice there is a security measure now included on the vouchers by the signature. I have sever of these though and none of them have this feature.

I also noticed that, they did start to issue them with the little shiny rectangle a while ago, but I have still got several from before that.

 

[gray1404]

I doubt in reality it makes no difference and they will have to honor them all until the end of the franchise, at least. When is this until?

 

[Harpers Tate]

It was probably easier to interpret (and with little or no meaningful impact on revenue) when what was issued was not any kind of single or return ticket, but an all-day pass for any Northern Service with either one day or two days fill-in-the-boxes validity.

 

[palmersears]

I've used many of these in recent months all across Northern Land. To test them out in terms of acceptance I put one of the returns down as Chester to Newcastle, and then happily spent the day ambling around Yorkshire essentially using it as a Rover. Not once did anybody question it, they just seem to see it's a complimentary pass and move on without even checking it fully.

 

[Adam0984]

I’ve never queried the routing on these tickets I’m more interested in that the date is right and not altered. If the shortest route between 2 stations is via the whole of northern England then that’s how it is

 

[185143]

Just thought-I used an all day pass and wrote Birchwood to Carlisle and the date on it. I was told on the pacer down the coast to write a date in the 'return' box too.

 

[gray1404]

With an all day pass you do not need to insert any stations on it. A date only needs to be written on the outward box.

 

[185143]

With an all day pass you do not need to insert any stations on it. A date only needs to be written on the outward box.

Northern told me to write somewhere I was likely to go! Though the pass was given to me as a Christmas Present (seriously!) by the Social Media team rather than by the Customer Experience Centre in the normal way...

 

[gray1404]

They are wrong. It is basically an all day ticket allowed unlimited travel on any Northern service anywhere on their network.