Personal Political Beliefs : Has the pandemic made you move further left or right?

[hst43102]

I've just been reading the interesting thread about the left/right responses to Covid, and I was thinking about how this past year has changed my values and beliefs. Previously, I would have considered myself centre-right, and I voted Conservative in the last election. In some ways I've moved further to the right - especially when the left are calling for endless lockdowns/mandatory facemasks/vaccinations, but at the same time I've completely lost any trust or respect in Boris and the current Conservative party in general. I've also noticed how our post-Thatcher service sector economy has crumpled like a house of cards and I'm now in favour of government-run industry, even if just to diversify our economy a bit! I would be very interested to hear from people all over the political spectrum on this topic.

 

[kristiang85]

The political spectrum is very muddied now.

Because I question lockdowns and mask mandates, many would say I'm quite right wing (because that seems to be the label that is given to them, which I disagree with but that's how it is).

But because I am also constantly going on about it is the poorest who are suffering the most and that we should focus funding on the improving the long term capacity and capability of the NHS and health systems rather than spaffing it all on Boris' test and trace and PPE cronies and furlough, that makes me sound much more left wing.

I have always said I'm a centre-right libertarian, and I maintain I am still that. But I have absolutely no idea where I sit with all the political parties now. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably go down there and spoil my ballot.

 

[roversfan2001]

But I have absolutely no idea where I sit with all the political parties now. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably go down there and spoil my ballot.

Another spoiled ballot here.

I voted Labour in 2019 but couldn't vote for them again while Starmer is at the helm (regardless of his views on Covid, his treatment of the prominent socialists in the party is disgraceful).

I'm probably more right-wing than this time last year on the basis that lockdown skeptics are given the right-wing label, but still centre-left at worst.

 

[Journeyman]

It's made me realise the evils of authoritarian governments, and I'm therefore considerably more libertarian/anarchist than I was before. I naturally lean more to the left than to the right, and I think we need to move to a more mutually supportive society, so the question now is how to do that. I think a lot of decisions need to be made at much more local levels, and that power in this government is far too centralised. I couldn't support Corbyn, because of his belief in Big Government, and everything I've seen since has convinced me that centralised government decision making generally makes things worse, rather than better.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Big government?
Mark Rutter, Netherlands PM, said government should be small, but strong

 

[duncanp]

I think if anything I have moved further to the right.

I voted Conservative in the 2019 general election, but I will not vote for them again whilst Boris is leader.

If there was a general election tomorrow I would vote for Nigel Farage's Reform UK, mainly as a protest vote.

One of the things that the COVID-19 pandemic has taught me is the strengths and weaknesses of the NHS as an institution.

The individual staff, especially those who have direct contact with patients, do their best, but they seem to be hampered by bureaucracy, a culture of bullying, and a cover up mentality when anything goes wrong.

People say the NHS is underfunded, but no-one can say how much money the NHS needs before it is not underfunded, or how any extra money would be spent in order to improve performance.

I would favour breaking up the NHS into a series of smaller organisations so that the healthcare system in the UK operates along the social insurance model used in most of Western Europe. A social insurance models means that money follows the patient, who is then regarded as a customer rather than a nuisance. If you look at France, Germany and the Netherlands, you don't seem to have to struggle to get a GP appointment or face long waits for specialist treatment.

But the NHS is so much of a sacred cow which we bow down and worship, especially after the "Clap for Carers" earlier this year, that anyone who questions its existence or states the need for reform, is condemned as some right wing looney.

 

[MikeWM]

I'd describe myself as quite hard left economically and strongly libertarian socially - I frequently question myself whether you can be consistently both at the same time, but my conclusion is that it isn't any more inconsistent than any other political position.

I don't think I've changed all that much over the last few years, but the parties have all moved around drastically - on Covid particularly, but also on other issues too.

This diagram seems to sum it up nicely:


(diagram shows radical-conservative axis and libertarian-authoritarian axis, and demonstrates that a lot of people have moved from libertarian positions to authoritarian positions, but they don't necessarily realise it)

 

[DB]

I'm probably fairly centre-left, and remain so - but as a result of the past year I have no confidence whatsoever in any of the left-leaning political parties or media.

The only politicians who have shown sense are the Tory backbenchers who have challenged the narrative, and what little sensible coverage has appeared in the media has mostly been the Telegraph and Daily Mail (although it's not predominated in either of them, with plenty of fearmongering stories too).

I've never voted Tory, but if I lived in the constituency of one of those dissenting backbenchers and there was an election tomorrow I would seriously consider it (I am in a Tory constituency, but the MP has voted with the government - and if there was an election tomorrow I don't think I'd vote at all uniless the Monster Raving Loonies fielded a candiate)

 

[Cdd89]

It’s made be move further to the left in defence of the country’s most downtrodden, so I’d probably vote for Nigel Farage if there were an election tomorrow.

(Actually I don’t think I could bring myself to vote for Farage, but I think the above shows how messed up the political compass is right now!)

 

[WelshBluebird]

For me, it hasn't really been the pandemic or even the direct reaction to it that has changed my opinions.
It is the indirect reactions and indeed some of the other things they have tried to do in the background that has pushed my further to the left.
Although some of the other borderline corruption that has been going on with the track and trace system etc has also influenced my opinions (the story of Dido Harding over the last year or so sums it up totally for me - married to a Tory MP who recently was a minister and she went to school with a recent Tory PM, and she ends up getting made head of track and trace - hmmmm).

Things like the government initially refusing to pay for free school meals whilst forcing schools to close (and the more recent things like the outsourced rip off meal "boxes" that) and things like the talk now of them wanting to take a shredder to workers rights in this country.

People say the NHS is underfunded, but no-one can say how much money the NHS needs before it is not underfunded, or how any extra money would be spent in order to improve performance.

In terms of per head of population, quite a lot of other countries spend a fair bit more money on healthcare than what we do with the NHS.

 

[duncanp]

In terms of per head of population, quite a lot of other countries spend a fair bit more money on healthcare than what we do with the NHS.

But it is what it is spent on that matters.

The United States spends more money per head of population on healthcare than almost every other country in the world.

But their system is completely broken, with many people having no insurance cover at all, and others being forced into bankruptcy to pay medical bills, such as $5,000 for a broken arm.

 

[6862]

I voted Conservative in 2019, and my political beliefa haven't changed at all but I will never again vote Conservative after what they have done to this country for the past 10 months. I don't see any alternative to vote for, so I would spoil my ballot in any future election (if we still have elections after all this!).

 

[yorksrob]

The key thing is that the health system has to be free at the point of delivery.

This seems to be the case with the continental social insurance model (I presume that they also have some way of ensuring that loads of money isn't squandered on insurance admin costs).

 

[hst43102]

It’s made be move further to the left in defence of the country’s most downtrodden, so I’d probably vote for Nigel Farage if there were an election tomorrow.

That's a really interesting statement, considering that Farage has been regarded as on the far right of British politics for a while. It just goes to show how messed up everything is at the moment.

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst I'm economically quite socialist, I've become a lot more personally libertarian over this crisis.

I'm afraid the labour party seems to be about as distant from my priorities as it is possible to be at the moment. They are currently a non-entity in terms of opposition as far as I'm concerned.

 

[duncanp]

The key thing is that the health system has to be free at the point of delivery.

This seems to be the case with the continental social insurance model (I presume that they also have some way of ensuring that loads of money isn't squandered on insurance admin costs).

The health insurance companies are usually mutual non profit making organisations.

Their job is to collect premiums from insured people and distribute them to the service providers accordingly.

The government regulates the system so that the costs charged by hospitals to insurance companies.

People pay for consultations and treatment, but this is then reimbursed so that the net cost to the patient is little or nothing. If you have your insurance details, you do not have to pay up front.

I am sure such a system could be introduced in the UK, rather like the Prescription Prepayment Certificate for those who are not exempt from prescription charges, but who nevertheless need several items per month.

 

[yorksrob]

The health insurance companies are usually mutual non profit making organisations.

Their job is to collect premiums from insured people and distribute them to the service providers accordingly.

The government regulates the system so that the costs charged by hospitals to insurance companies.

People pay for consultations and treatment, but this is then reimbursed so that the net cost to the patient is little or nothing. If you have your insurance details, you do not have to pay up front.

I am sure such a system could be introduced in the UK, rather like the Prescription Prepayment Certificate for those who are not exempt from prescription charges, but who nevertheless need several items per month.

This sounds quite sensible to me. You could still keep an "NHS" umbrella brand, however it would be less beholden to Government rationing.

It would also be useful to keep some centralised functions, such as the bulk purchasing of drugs.

 

[MikeWM]

It's made me realise the evils of authoritarian governments, and I'm therefore considerably more libertarian/anarchist than I was before. I naturally lean more to the left than to the right, and I think we need to move to a more mutually supportive society, so the question now is how to do that. I think a lot of decisions need to be made at much more local levels, and that power in this government is far too centralised.

This is a good description of the classic problem those on the (non-authoritarian) left face - how to implement the policies you support, without aggregating too much power centrally.

In a very vague hand-waving way, Marx suggested we did it by building up the state to fix the existing issues (socialism) in order for it to then wither away and be replaced by far more local political systems (communism, ie. communes). Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have taken into account the rather basic human behaviour that, having taken power even if for the noblest of reasons, you are highly reluctant to give it away again - so the 'withering away' doesn't ever actually happen, and you end up with Stalin or similar in charge.

As I hinted above, I can see the potential for a goverment that is economically left (eg. a stronger welfare state, nationalisation of utilities etc.) while being very protective of individual liberties. Indeed, part of the reason I did support Corbyn was that his record suggested that was pretty much what he did believe in - he had a much better voting record on civil liberties than the vast majority of MPs, for example. I suspect in power he would have been less so, unfortunately - indeed even his record as Leader of the Opposition was significantly diminished over what came before, and the Labour manifestos of 2017 and 2019 were both very quiet on civil liberties issues.

Of course none of the parties at the moment come close to my political philosophy. I'm willing to 'lend' my vote to an anti-lockdown party even if I disagree with other things they say, because this is so important. But not Farage - not since he suggested using Tony Blair to head up the vaccination effort!

 

[brad465]

The political spectrum is very muddied now.

Because I question lockdowns and mask mandates, many would say I'm quite right wing (because that seems to be the label that is given to them, which I disagree with but that's how it is).

But because I am also constantly going on about it is the poorest who are suffering the most and that we should focus funding on the improving the long term capacity and capability of the NHS and health systems rather than spaffing it all on Boris' test and trace and PPE cronies and furlough, that makes me sound much more left wing.

I have always said I'm a centre-right libertarian, and I maintain I am still that. But I have absolutely no idea where I sit with all the political parties now. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably go down there and spoil my ballot.

Ditto this, I've generally of left-wing persuasion and believe this is the way to go when it comes to recovery from all this, but do not support many of the ideas on this side of the spectrum with regards to restrictions at the moment.

 

[SurreyCommuter]

I'm really at a loss as to where I stand. I thought I was fairly middle of the road maybe leaning slightly to the right but given how far left a lot of people on my social media and the like are it makes me seem like a far right extremist! I would class myself as a lockdown questioner or sceptic rather than lockdown denier although it seems in a lot of people's eyes that they're one and the same. Then again given where I live that's hardly surprising given I'm in working from home and furlough central! Like others on here if there was an election tomorrow then my ballot would almost certainly be spoilt.

 

[bramling]

I've just been reading the interesting thread about the left/right responses to Covid, and I was thinking about how this past year has changed my values and beliefs. Previously, I would have considered myself centre-right, and I voted Conservative in the last election. In some ways I've moved further to the right - especially when the left are calling for endless lockdowns/mandatory facemasks/vaccinations, but at the same time I've completely lost any trust or respect in Boris and the current Conservative party in general. I've also noticed how our post-Thatcher service sector economy has crumpled like a house of cards and I'm now in favour of government-run industry, even if just to diversify our economy a bit! I would be very interested to hear from people all over the political spectrum on this topic.

I wouldn’t say my political position has changed, though at this moment my nearest political fits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Steve Baker, and that’s hardly ideal.

At this moment I feel politically homeless, such that any vote would have to be either a protest vote for a fringe party (even something like Monster Raving Loony), or a spoiled paper.

I will certainly stick to my promise than under no circumstance would I vote Conservative whilst BJ remains leader, and to be honest I would struggle to vote C whilst *any* of the current cabinet remain in top positions. Labour are no better.

 

[RichJF]

It's not changed my polticial opinion as I cross political divides on a multitude of issues, but it's made me ever more jaded with our current political establishment, who seem only out to better themselves (even during a devestating pandemic). There's not one senior figure in any of the parties I trust to take the country forwards.

The pandemic & lockdowns have made me more receptive of people who are sadly less fortunate than myself & I'd vote for whoever I feel serves the needs of those who require assistance but are also prepared to graft as well.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I don't know that they have. I'm perhaps a little less willing to trust experts, more concerned about potential government overreach, and much more cynical about the NHS. That would probably mean a slight rightward shift, but my views have never been about a coherent philosophy. I've always taken things issue by issue - in some cases I'm more left wing and on others I'm more right wing. I'm probably mainly right leaning, but I did vote Labour in my first election in 2017, so I'm not really "hard line".

However, when deciding who to support my personal views are only one side of things. There's also my opinions on the parties and their main figureheads - and this is where I've seen my views change. Initially I thought a lot of the criticism of Boris Johnson was politically motivated and quite liked him, however this crisis has shown him unfit to be Prime Minister. I voted Conservative at the last general election; I probably won't at the next one.

 

[bramling]

There's not one senior figure in any of the parties I trust to take the country forwards.

A lot of people are saying this. Very worrying.

At this moment I would happily vote for any political colour if I felt they had the most competent leadership in place.

What a state of affairs when at this moment I’d probably throw my weight behind Steve Baker as the one who seems to have what it takes!

 

[DB]

But not Farage - not since he suggested using Tony Blair to head up the vaccination effort!

Whatever you think of Blair (and I'm no fan either), he's vastly more competent than any of the shower currently in charge, and would probably have made a reasonable job of it.

 

[bramling]

Whatever you think of Blair (and I'm no fan either), he's vastly more competent than any of the shower currently in charge, and would probably have made a reasonable job of it.

I’d agree, I’d take him over BJ for sure. Having said that, he did lay the devolution foundations, and it has to be said that the devolution setup is one of the factors which has contributed to the shambles, with the way the devolved institutions have insisted on doing things their own way, and perhaps engaging in some oneupmanship (Sturgeon in particular).

 

[MikeWM]

Whatever you think of Blair (and I'm no fan either), he's vastly more competent than any of the shower currently in charge, and would probably have made a reasonable job of it.

Logistically, I'd agree - but Blair is quite explicit that he wants it all tied to vaccination passports and a 'health papers please' society to do pretty much anything going forwards, so I'd hope to keep him as far away from it as possible.

 

[jtuk]

I wouldn't say it's affected my left/right balance, more reaffirmed my view that the party political system is fundamentally broken and inconsistent with the concept of democracy, and needs banning

 

[bramling]

Logistically, I'd agree - but Blair is quite explicit that he wants it all tied to vaccination passports and a 'health papers please' society to do pretty much anything going forwards, so I'd hope to keep him as far away from it as possible.

Hadn’t realised that. The last thing we need or want.

 

[Domh245]

I wouldn't say my political position has changed much, but I certainly feel more isolated from the current crop of parties! If anything, my libertarian leanings have been strengthened but I continue to be about the same place on the left-right scale